Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[ReasonablySober]

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I can't throw stones. I hit a deer going 90+ when I was kid. Live and learn, Ajax.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Reality check for you guys fantasizing about a trade and some crazy bidding war, superstars like Giannis almost always dictate where they want to go and he isn't going to want to be traded to Utah or OKC. Trading Giannis isn't happening unless he demands it and if he does it would probably be New York, LA, Miami like everybody else in history. You trade everybody before Giannis.

As for a win-now shape up trade I was thinking about Dame for Jimmy Butler works in the trade checker, probably could get another asset or two. Jimmy is on the outs in Miami & can opt out this offseason. Fits better on offense & defense, more of a leader/winner, PJ like toughness & accountability, equally as old, got the Marquette connection. Dame can go where he wanted to be all along & score 30ppgz and the Bucks can reestablish tough defensive identity with culture setting Jimmy.

I guess why rule out OKC? dame went from a loyal Portland guy to the bucks. kind of gave him an option where he didn't sell out to LA and went to where he thought he could get a ring. Giannis can still be an anti la/ny guy and get a few rings in OKC. not saying gsw, la, ny aren't places Giannis could end up but I don't think they have the assets to interest the bucks.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Don't trade Giannis, that's idiotic. Dame.. sure

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[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

I am having a day and after losing to the Celtics in expected fashion yesterday. I will take this opportunity to beat a dead horse as a Bucks fan since early 90s.

I am still livid *we gave up picks/draft capital* in addition to Jrue to get Dame. Jrue on his own was more than enough.

The piss poor asset management casts a long shadow, and now we live in the reality that is dawning on us years later that we would age horribly without any avenues for young talent infusion. Stuck in the nightmare of too good to bottom out but too flawed to be legitimate contenders all while sporting one of the highest payrolls and on the second tax apron. Nightmare because we can't bring in proper talent to complement our generational talent, Giannis who is entering his final prime years. What awful timing to be tapped out. What a painful time to be tapped out.

It all started with letting Jabari walk for nothing when he was worth something. It was at that moment I knew I could not trust Horst to manage our assets well to build something sustainable. Instead, he did what the Cavs GM did before LeBron joined the Heatles, built a fake contender full of spaceparts, old, flawed, over the hill types. It seems like those Cavs, we will not be able to do what's needed until Giannis leaves and we can properly construct a modern NBA roster again. Yes we won our chip, but that does not give us the excuse to be piss poor with our asset management and talent development.

[drone3]

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[Profound23]

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I feel the opposite. This team does worse when Dame brings the ball up. Really wish we could've traded Middleton for Dame instead of Jrue...that would've solved most of our problems.

Jrue would find Dame and Giannis while providing the defense we need. Instead we have three iso players, two of which can't play defense.

Unfortunately I was wrong about this team. Don't think we are a contender. Hoping I'm wrong...but I don't see it. Same issues as last year.

Doesn't matter, soon it will be Wemby's league.

[-Jragon-]

Don't trade Giannis, that's idiotic. Dame.. sure

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I mean... he looks pretty damn good ... it's a lot of bricks out there from role players .. Dame drawing those fouls is the only reason these are close games.

[-Jragon-]

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I feel the opposite. This team does worse when Dame brings the ball up. Really wish we could've traded Middleton for Dame instead of Jrue...that would've solved most of our problems.

Jrue would find Dame and Giannis while providing the defense we need. Instead we have three iso players, two of which can't play defense.

Unfortunately I was wrong about this team. Don't think we are a contender. Hoping I'm wrong...but I don't see it. Same issues as last year.

Doesn't matter, soon it will be Wemby's league.

I agree 1000% but he was just signed unfortunately

[paulpressey25]

Don’t listen to Bill Michaels but did get pointed to his pod today where he spent a few minutes talking Bucks. Went on a rant that Giannis has to quit playing PG and shooting threes. Said he needs to get his ass in the post and let Dame run the team.

[RiotPunch]

Don’t listen to Bill Michaels but did get pointed to his pod today where he spent a few minutes talking Bucks. Went on a rant that Giannis has to quit playing PG and shooting threes. Said he needs to get his ass in the post and let Dame run the team.

I generally agree with the sentiment, but he's attempted three 3 pointers in 4 games. I'm good with that.

It's the same old high post, ramming a square peg through a round hole approach that kills our offensive flow.

[blazza18]

Taking less threes is like the one thing Giannis has done right despite being pretty stubborn about everything else.

[pifhluk23]

It's hilarious to me that our defensive scheme is funnel everyone into Lopez in the post when nearly every team in the league's offensive scheme is shoot 3s. The Bucks are so far behind the meta. Giannis needs to play C probably 70% of the time and Lopez needed to be traded 3 years ago.

[soxperry]

I am having a day and after losing to the Celtics in expected fashion yesterday. I will take this opportunity to beat a dead horse as a Bucks fan since early 90s.

I am still livid *we gave up picks/draft capital* in addition to Jrue to get Dame. Jrue on his own was more than enough.

The piss poor asset management casts a long shadow, and now we live in the reality that is dawning on us years later that we would age horribly without any avenues for young talent infusion. Stuck in the nightmare of too good to bottom out but too flawed to be legitimate contenders all while sporting one of the highest payrolls and on the second tax apron. Nightmare because we can't bring in proper talent to complement our generational talent, Giannis who is entering his final prime years. What awful timing to be tapped out. What a painful time to be tapped out.

It all started with letting Jabari walk for nothing when he was worth something. It was at that moment I knew I could not trust Horst to manage our assets well to build something sustainable. Instead, he did what the Cavs GM did before LeBron joined the Heatles, built a fake contender full of spaceparts, old, flawed, over the hill types. It seems like those Cavs, we will not be able to do what's needed until Giannis leaves and we can properly construct a modern NBA roster again. Yes we won our chip, but that does not give us the excuse to be piss poor with our asset management and talent development.

I stopped reading when u said jrue and dame should have been valued equally...

I get being caught up in the moment but thats a brain dead take. Jrue was fresh off of getting absolutely abused by Jimmy Butler in the playoffs and there were rumors he didnt want to play much longer. Dame was fresh off a career season where he looked absolutely insane offensively.

To add: Giannis put severe pressure on the team to make a big splash move and there was fear he wouldn't extend. Not a single bucks fan gave a **** about jrue when we found out Dame was coming. Do you remember the sea of people that showed up when he got to Milwaukee for the first time?

So with that said... Yes, I wish it had been Khris. That would have always made more sense basketball wise and we would have likely saved some draft capital as Khris has always been more valuable.

The good news is... We can still trade Khris now if we want defensive help and draft capital. Do we have the balls? Idk

[fansinceforever]

The playable asset plus draft capital Khris dream is over. The guy doesn't play basketball. We'd have to find a truly desperate team to give up a package like that for Khris.

Especially with the threat of him opting in next year.... No way.

[paulpressey25]

The playable asset plus draft capital Khris dream is over. The guy doesn't play basketball. We'd have to find a truly desperate team to give up a package like that for Khris.

Especially with the threat of him opting in next year.... No way.

Can’t think of many guys who had a scope on ankles over the summer to ‘clean a few things up’ that is still not playing come November. The injury problems that Khris has have always gone pretty deep.

The guys right now who have real trade value are Dame and Brook. The problem is that if you deal them, you immediately open up a major hole at either PG or Center.

I’ve come around to the problem being Giannis. He’s got to stop trying to play PG and create with the one on three stuff. The league has that figured out now.

[Bernman]

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I can't figure out why this guy has went from way in the positives in terms of +/-, to neutral or negative the last couple yrs, on a contending team. It's frankly inexplicable. Probably just bad luck.

[fansinceforever]

The playable asset plus draft capital Khris dream is over. The guy doesn't play basketball. We'd have to find a truly desperate team to give up a package like that for Khris.

Especially with the threat of him opting in next year.... No way.

Can’t think of many guys who had a scope on ankles over the summer to ‘clean a few things up’ that is still not playing come November. The injury problems that Khris has have always gone pretty deep.

The guys right now who have real trade value are Dame and Brook. The problem is that if you deal them, you immediately open up a major hole at either PG or Center.

I’ve come around to the problem being Giannis. He’s got to stop trying to play PG and create with the one on three stuff. The league has that figured out now.

That's fair and I agree to an extent. I just don't think letting Dame run an offense that's about as organized as a competitive Rec League team is the answer. They don't seem to be very intentional about what they're trying to get accomplished. Occasionally, you'll see them attack certain matchups but not consistently enough.

Right now the offense is pretty much "you two go out there and be great and kick the ball out to open shooters if you're covered,"

There's never baseline cutters for finishes, never weakside lobs, 0 hockey passes for 3, there's nothing. It's tough for me to fault Giannis overextending himself when the team's playing from behind and has no plan.

[Brewhoopfan]

Hate to go full J Kidd, but energy and effort matters. This Bucks start to the season is completely devoid of any juice. It's uninspiring basketball. Play some of the young guys. Bring back Thanasis to wave a towel. They look miserable and it's been miserable to watch.

[Ron Swanson]

The good news:

- We're 8th in pace (we're not slow!) and 8th in eFG% despite the poor 3PT shooting (23rd)
- We're one of only 3 teams (Boston, Sacramento) that are top half in all 4 shot-quality/"luck" adjusted metrics (essentially, we're taking good shots and getting a little unlucky)

The bad news:

- We're only 13th in analytics shot quality (rim attempts and 3's). Not exactly an ideal shot profile when you have Dame and Giannis.
- You can really only point to the Bulls game as the lone 3PT variance loss, with only one quality opponent faced (28th in SRS)

The positive spin is that so much of this crap is fixed simply by Giannis not being the worst high-volume team impact guy since like, 2016 Kobe? The "so bad it's hard to believe" on/off numbers won't continue to be this bad, nor will his FT shooting (that's leaving 1.3 points per-100 possessions on the table compared to last year). The offense can hardly be as bad as it has been the last 3-games as well (28th in the last two games, and 24th in the last three).

The negative spin is that the Giannis/Bobby stuff is now a multi-year trend. It's a pretty big problem when you can't play two thirds of your entire frontcourt rotation together on the floor, and "going small" isn't a permanent, long-term solution over an 82-game season plus a long playoff run. The Doc stuff is a discussion for another day, at least until we get a larger sample with this personnel. But the clunky fit on offense with all of these guys starts to get worrisome if they don't put up some 120+ Off-RTG type outings in the next month or two. No reason or excuses for the offense to look this bad with this amount of talent.

[paulpressey25]

It's a pretty big problem when you can't play two thirds of your entire frontcourt rotation together on the floor,

I do buy the Brook/Bobby metrics though. They pass the eye test. Those two guys ironically are working better together on the court than when you add Giannis in there.