Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid

[Newz]

As far as Jabari Parker goes, I can see the Pierce, Robinson and Anthony similarities. With Parker though, he is more explosive than Robinson was in my opinion. All four of those guys have very similar offensive games though. Silky shots, great post game and can handle the ball.

I think those are all reasonable comparisons for him too. I would lean more toward him being Robinson than I would Pierce at this point though... but I do agree he could be as good as Pierce.

The problem is do you want to take a guy like that with the second pick in a supposedly deep draft or would you rather shoot for a guy who can be a two way impact player? I actually agree that Parker is probably the safest pick. I don't think he has very much 'bust' potential to him at all. I think he's going to be at least a 17PPG guy on reasonable efficiency.

I just don't see his upside as very high... and I don't know if I want to build a team around Giannis, Parker and Sanders. Because I think that with those guys, Wolters and some of the other guys we have like Ersan we could very easily be out of the tank next year. I could see us winning 30+ games and being out of the top 5 picks.

I want to swing for the fences and take a boom/bust guy so that we know where we stand. I'd rather take a swing on a guy who can be a top 5-10 player and miss than I would to play it safe and get a guy with a much higher chance of being a 2nd/3rd tier player.

[breakchains]

Parker has a lot more "upside" than some seem to think. For a player to be that skilled at 18/19 is in and of itself a special talent, and he is more physically talented than people seem to realize too.

It's not his fault he wasn't built in Wiggins' frame with Wiggins' athleticism. Parker's body will always be the one thing that's holding him back from being the upside pick Wiggins is, IMO.

I wouldn't put him in Wiggins' class athletically, to be sure, but we have to remember we are talking about playing basketball here. It all goes into a pot and you have to figure out who will be the most effective player on the court. You can easily make the case that Wiggins will never be as skilled as Parker will be, just like Parker will never be as athletic as Wiggins is. Differentiating within Tier 2 (Parker/Wiggins/Exum) is not easy.

[M-C-G]

Parker has a lot more "upside" than some seem to think. For a player to be that skilled at 18/19 is in and of itself a special talent, and he is more physically talented than people seem to realize too.

Yup, I think this is spot on....if it weren't for the athletic FREAKS in this draft, he would be seen as having good athleticism. But when you match him against a nimble 7 footer and the Canadian Trampoline, he pales in comparison.

Kid is going to be special, and unlike some of the other prospects in this draft, I don't think he is going to need his hand held to greatness...

[breakchains]

Anyone know if they actually measured Embiid? I wouldn't doubt if he's 7'1 right now. He dwarfs Wiggins when they stand next to each other.

[HaroldinGMinor]

Does anyone know what exactly the issue is with Embiid's back? Could it just be something like a strain or are people assuming it's more of a disc issue?

[raysbookclub]

No offense to either of you guys, but I find it laughable that anyone would be disappointed coming away with Jabari Parker in this draft.

I know you guys probably have Wiggins much higher than me, but seriously, let's not get too carried away here. We have scouts, gm, and player polls calling Parker the #1 pick, so it isn't crazy to think we would take him at 2, if available.

I've had Parker has my #1 all year, and though tempted to change it, have held strong, for many reasons I have posted previously...I will be really happy when any of the big 4 are drafted, but if I have my pick, it's Parker for sure.

I'm interested in who Wiggins will become, not what Parker is and will be (especially with the 2nd pick).

Yeah, I am actually interested in what Parker will be...My gut tells me he becomes the best player in this draft, and a #1 / alpha type All Star. I think he is the best player now and in 5 years. I can definitely understand how others might not agree, and that is cool, but like I said, I don't think it would be a stretch for Parker to go #1 or #2 in this draft.

Just curious, who would you rather have: a prime Paul Pierce or a prime Tracy McGrady? Not that Parker or Wiggins will become those guys necessarily, but I feel like those are the upsides people are arguing for. Both prime Pierce and prime McGrady are all-NBA players, so it might be nitpicking, but if given the choice, in a vacuum, I'd rather have McGrady. Maybe that's why I prefer Wiggins, even if Parker has a higher ceiling than people are giving him credit for.

(That said, I don't think Parker is or will be Pierce, not athletic enough, and I think Wiggins has a higher upside.)

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

Anyone know if they actually measured Embiid? I wouldn't doubt if he's 7'1 right now. He dwarfs Wiggins when they stand next to each other.

SVP and Russillo were talking earlier this week that either SVP is 6'7 or 6'8 (he's not) or Wiggins is closer to 6'5. So that may be apart of it.

ETA: they were talking about a picture of SVP standing next to Wiggins. I think it's floating around the internet somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

[DanoMac]

Parker has a lot more "upside" than some seem to think. For a player to be that skilled at 18/19 is in and of itself a special talent, and he is more physically talented than people seem to realize too.

It's not his fault he wasn't built in Wiggins' frame with Wiggins' athleticism. Parker's body will always be the one thing that's holding him back from being the upside pick Wiggins is, IMO.

I wouldn't put him in Wiggins' class athletically, to be sure, but we have to remember we are talking about playing basketball here. It all goes into a pot and you have to figure out who will be the most effective player on the court. You can easily make the case that Wiggins will never be as skilled as Parker will be, just like Parker will never be as athletic as Wiggins is. Differentiating within Tier 2 (Parker/Wiggins/Exum) is not easy.

Agree with that for sure, about at the end of the day it coming down to playing basketball. I guess what it boils down to for me is, everything Parker already does, I feel like Wiggins isn't that far off from doing/he already does it. Yet Parker will never have the athleticism/defensive ability Wiggins has. That's pretty much a fact. But Wiggins can do everything Parker does. It's that long term vision for me as to what the player has a chance of being. I want to step up to the plate and swing Gomez style.

[breakchains]

Does anyone know what exactly the issue is with Embiid's back? Could it just be something like a strain or are people assuming it's more of a disc issue?

It's not clear yet. It could be a more minor stress fracture that recovers on its own, or there is the possibility that it could be a more chronic issue that would require more serious surgery. My sense is that it's the former, but we need the medical records and our own doctors to check him out to be sure.

[JayMKE]

Can anyone point me in the direction of an article which says that Tellem is specifically avoiding the Bucks? Everything I've found online makes it seem like Tellem isn't releasing Embiid's medical records to anyone. I haven't seen a specific statement which indicates that Embiid doesn't want to play in Milwaukee.

I don't think there is one. Just speculation, can't imagine that Cleveland is any more attractive the Milwaukee. LA doesn't pick until #7 and these guys aren't going to want to fall that far.

We have a great young back court in Irving and Waiters. We have a lot of other good players on this team. #1 picks rarely get the opportunity to join a team as well off as Cleveland and to join another franchise player in Kyrie. The Bucks and Sixers meanwhile are huge projects.

CLEVELAND is still CLEVELAND, you can't change geography. I don't really believe that you guys are that well of despite all the draft picks as most of them are busts and I believe Irving/Waiters has posed some problems as well. Are Irving and Waiters going to stay together long term? Not bashing you guys but lets not pretend Cleveland is somehow a way more attractive destination than Milwaukee. Our river and lake > yours btw.

[Rockmaninoff]

Of all the Wiggins criticisms this one is the one that pisses me off.

Why? The eye test is important too.

You want a killer or a passive lamb?

All these scouts confirm mine and others reservations about his heart and passion.

Yet some are so quick to dismiss it. That frustrates me.

This is why I dismiss it. From 2010:
http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/05/lebron_james_game_5_celtics.html

It's a good thing LeBron James will change the number on the back of his jersey from 23 to 6 next season, if only because wherever he winds up, it will be one less reminder of the player he will never be.

The comparisons to Michael Jordan were overblown long before now. James' listless performance in the Cavs' Game 5 loss to the Celtics at home was simply confirmation of that.

He may be the NBA prototype for the rest of this century: a RoboCop physique, already possessed with 22nd-Century skills. But unless or until he develops a killer instinct, James doesn't belong in the same sentence with the guy who dominated basketball at the end of the last one.

Umm, that was LeBron tanking to get out of Cleveland.

LeBron had games like this before that:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU[/youtube]

LeBron doesn't have MJ's personality, but he has always been the unquestioned #1 guy on his team. I don't see that with Wiggins.

[HaroldinGMinor]

Does anyone know what exactly the issue is with Embiid's back? Could it just be something like a strain or are people assuming it's more of a disc issue?

It's not clear yet. It could be a more minor stress fracture that recovers on its own, or there is the possibility that it could be a more chronic issue that would require more serious surgery. My sense is that it's the former, but we need the medical records and our own doctors to check him out to be sure.

Thanks. And is the agent withholding the med records or is that conjecture?

[Baseline Runner]

I don't think there is one. Just speculation, can't imagine that Cleveland is any more attractive the Milwaukee. LA doesn't pick until #7 and these guys aren't going to want to fall that far.

We have a great young back court in Irving and Waiters. We have a lot of other good players on this team. #1 picks rarely get the opportunity to join a team as well off as Cleveland and to join another franchise player in Kyrie. The Bucks and Sixers meanwhile are huge projects.

CLEVELAND is still CLEVELAND, you can't change geography. I don't really believe that you guys are that well of despite all the draft picks as most of them are busts and I believe Irving/Waiters has posed some problems as well. Are Irving and Waiters going to stay together long term? Not bashing you guys but lets not pretend Cleveland is somehow a way more attractive destination than Milwaukee. Our river and lake > yours btw.

City wise we are pretty much the same, but I don't think most NBA players look at that. Outside of the top two or three cities like NYC and LA (and not everyone wants to play in those markets and suffer the scrutiny), pretty much all cities are viewed the same by NBA players. These are basketball players, not geography experts. Instead what they are look at is who they will be playing with. The Cavs are a very solid young team, we could have easily won 40 games last year but we had a bunch of little problems rising up all season from distractions to injuries.

[averageposter]

Don't know how much stock to put on Simmons though he clearly had our sale dialed in, but in his mailbag today he shared he watched Embiid work out and he looked great. He says the Back is a non issue. Further that Embiids agent planned to stonewall the Bucks on medical records if we had #1. He is convinced the Cavs are taking Embiid if they don't use the pick for Love.

I wonder what Minnesota would do if they had #1.

[breakchains]

Does anyone know what exactly the issue is with Embiid's back? Could it just be something like a strain or are people assuming it's more of a disc issue?

It's not clear yet. It could be a more minor stress fracture that recovers on its own, or there is the possibility that it could be a more chronic issue that would require more serious surgery. My sense is that it's the former, but we need the medical records and our own doctors to check him out to be sure.

Thanks. And is the agent withholding the med records or is that conjecture?

That's not clear yet. It started pre-lottery when some thought the Lakers might get a top 3 pick. Remains to be seen but I doubt they will be withholding him from working out for teams in the top 3.

[TroyD92]

Lebron was the unquestioned #1 guy, because he was the best player in the NBA after his 3rd year. LeBron was called soft, lacked killer instinct, not an alpha guy. He was always criticized for stupid reason's spearheaded by that moron Skip Bayless.

[breakchains]

It's not his fault he wasn't built in Wiggins' frame with Wiggins' athleticism. Parker's body will always be the one thing that's holding him back from being the upside pick Wiggins is, IMO.

I wouldn't put him in Wiggins' class athletically, to be sure, but we have to remember we are talking about playing basketball here. It all goes into a pot and you have to figure out who will be the most effective player on the court. You can easily make the case that Wiggins will never be as skilled as Parker will be, just like Parker will never be as athletic as Wiggins is. Differentiating within Tier 2 (Parker/Wiggins/Exum) is not easy.

Agree with that for sure, about at the end of the day it coming down to playing basketball. I guess what it boils down to for me is, everything Parker already does, I feel like Wiggins isn't that far off from doing/he already does it. Yet Parker will never have the athleticism/defensive ability Wiggins has. That's pretty much a fact. But Wiggins can do everything Parker does. It's that long term vision for me as to what the player has a chance of being. I want to step up to the plate and swing Gomez style.

I think the idea that you can take an uber-athlete and mold him into a great basketball player is attractive, but it sort of underestimates basketball savvy and skill. A lot of that is innate too.

I'm still figuring out my 2-4, personally. I wouldn't be disappointed with any of them, right now. The only disappointment I have is that we won't get Embiid - and there is enough disappointment there to last me a while.

[breakchains]

Honestly, the soft/passive stuff with Wiggins doesn't bother me whatsoever. If he can tighten his handle (significantly), none of that stuff will matter. He will kill guys. See, e.g., Kawhi Leonard.

[M-C-G]

I'm interested in who Wiggins will become, not what Parker is and will be (especially with the 2nd pick).

Yeah, I am actually interested in what Parker will be...My gut tells me he becomes the best player in this draft, and a #1 / alpha type All Star. I think he is the best player now and in 5 years. I can definitely understand how others might not agree, and that is cool, but like I said, I don't think it would be a stretch for Parker to go #1 or #2 in this draft.

Just curious, who would you rather have: a prime Paul Pierce or a prime Tracy McGrady? Not that Parker or Wiggins will become those guys necessarily, but I feel like those are the upsides people are arguing for. Both prime Pierce and prime McGrady are all-NBA players, so it might be nitpicking, but if given the choice, in a vacuum, I'd rather have McGrady. Maybe that's why I prefer Wiggins, even if Parker has a higher ceiling than people are giving him credit for.

(That said, I don't think Parker is or will be Pierce, not athletic enough, and I think Wiggins has a higher upside.)

Oh, I am going Paul Pierce all day...15 seasons, 10 all stars, 4 all NBA, Finals MVP....Statistically they are pretty close if you look at their career through the age of 30. I am sure I am slightly tainted by the feeble ending of Penny's career, but I really like the Pierce's game, plus I always thought of him as a "winner", for whatever that is worth.

[mattg]

People act like wiggins never made a clutch play or stepped up at big times though. Like he was always some timid kid who disappeared. There were numerous times throughout the year where wiggins took over games with a combination of defense and offense down the stretch to secure wins. Versus Iowa state towards the end of the year sticks out to me the most, obviously the duke and WVU games as well which everyone here should be familiar with.