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Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread

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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#581 » by RiotPunch » Fri May 29, 2020 9:45 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:You guys are gonna have to sell me on Riller. I see a guy who's gonna struggle mightily to get his shot off against NBA athletes. Average shooter, slow first step, good but not great physical tools. More of an undersized 2 than a lead guard. Screams mid-late 2nd rounder to me. He's a gamer though, I'll give him that.

Wat

Grant Riller has a great first step and is the best guard finisher in the draft. NBA range as a shooter, super bursty. Definitely an NBA athlete.

Good piece by Zach Milner:
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/03/30/case-grant-riller/

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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#582 » by Ron Swanson » Fri May 29, 2020 10:03 pm

RiotPunch wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:You guys are gonna have to sell me on Riller. I see a guy who's gonna struggle mightily to get his shot off against NBA athletes. Average shooter, slow first step, good but not great physical tools. More of an undersized 2 than a lead guard. Screams mid-late 2nd rounder to me. He's a gamer though, I'll give him that.

Wat


Compared to other athletic NBA point guards? Absolutely. He's a bit like Curry in that he seems quicker to the rim because he has a good handle, is really good at navigating around interior defenders, and uses his strength well. But end-to-end speed and quick twitch athleticism? I couldn't disagree with the scouts more, if that's what most are indeed saying.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#583 » by RiotPunch » Fri May 29, 2020 10:30 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:You guys are gonna have to sell me on Riller. I see a guy who's gonna struggle mightily to get his shot off against NBA athletes. Average shooter, slow first step, good but not great physical tools. More of an undersized 2 than a lead guard. Screams mid-late 2nd rounder to me. He's a gamer though, I'll give him that.

Wat


Compared to other athletic NBA point guards? Absolutely. He's a bit like Curry in that he seems quicker to the rim because he has a good handle, is really good at navigating around interior defenders, and uses his strength well. But end-to-end speed and quick twitch athleticism? I couldn't disagree with the scouts more, if that's what most are indeed saying.

IDK, I think he will be just fine against NBA guards. I think you are underrating his burst, his change of pace coming downhill is pretty tantalizing, and sure maybe his first step isn't elite, I would say it is pretty damn good. Especially out of his trademark rocker step:



At the end of the day he can: score from all 3 levels, create for himself off the dribble, finish at the rim, get to the line. Aside from Obi, Riller is probably the best finisher in this class period, regardless of position, IMO. Would love him in a 6th man role. His main question marks are on defense, but I think that was just an effort/load issue because he was asked to do so much on the other end. Athleticism shows there too when he's locked in.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#584 » by German Athens » Fri May 29, 2020 10:32 pm

RiotPunch wrote:
German Athens wrote:How do you guys rank the pg class? I know we won’t have a shot for the top 3 and I’d love to have Halliburton, but after that I have Kira Lewis, tyrell terry, and question marks. I don’t know what to make of Cole Anthony or nico mannion. I have a hard time seeing them as starters in the league. Does anyone have strong opinions of those two either way? After they are gone, Dotson and riller, maybe?


LaMelo
Killian

Cole
Kira
Riller


Terry
Flynn
Dotson

Maledon
Jones
Mannion
Butler

Cole I am still high on. He seemed to lose some burst this season, I wonder if he just had lingering injuries throughout the entire year. Definitely a guy we need to do thorough medical on. If he gets his bounce back, he has that Kemba-esque pull-up ability, which would be a godsend archetype for us and our dry-spells.

Mannion I'm out on as a 1st rounder. Allergic to the rim, pretty damning frame, shooting slumps tanked him even further. Sees the floor at an elite level though and is highly manipulative as a passer. Probably a fine backup PG type.

Riller is still super underrated in the mainstream, IMO. That dude is really athletic and can get his whenever he wants. He has risen up into my Top-15ish.


Do you not see Halliburton as a pg? As for Cole, I’ll have to watch some tape of him before UNC to give him a better look.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#585 » by RiotPunch » Fri May 29, 2020 10:39 pm

German Athens wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
German Athens wrote:How do you guys rank the pg class? I know we won’t have a shot for the top 3 and I’d love to have Halliburton, but after that I have Kira Lewis, tyrell terry, and question marks. I don’t know what to make of Cole Anthony or nico mannion. I have a hard time seeing them as starters in the league. Does anyone have strong opinions of those two either way? After they are gone, Dotson and riller, maybe?


LaMelo
Killian

Cole
Kira
Riller


Terry
Flynn
Dotson

Maledon
Jones
Mannion
Butler

Cole I am still high on. He seemed to lose some burst this season, I wonder if he just had lingering injuries throughout the entire year. Definitely a guy we need to do thorough medical on. If he gets his bounce back, he has that Kemba-esque pull-up ability, which would be a godsend archetype for us and our dry-spells.

Mannion I'm out on as a 1st rounder. Allergic to the rim, pretty damning frame, shooting slumps tanked him even further. Sees the floor at an elite level though and is highly manipulative as a passer. Probably a fine backup PG type.

Riller is still super underrated in the mainstream, IMO. That dude is really athletic and can get his whenever he wants. He has risen up into my Top-15ish.


Do you not see Halliburton as a pg? As for Cole, I’ll have to watch some tape of him before UNC to give him a better look.

I see Hali as more of an off-ball guard. He would be in that Cole, Kira, Riller tier for me if you made me classify him as a PG. I think he will be misutilized as a primary initiator when he should be next to other initiators, because his C&S ability is so damn good. I think he'll struggle to get his own shots and he can't get to the rim.

For the Bucks, Hali would be amazing playing off Giannis. Fit matters for him more than most of the lottery guys, IMO.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#586 » by BucksFanSD » Sat May 30, 2020 4:24 am

RiotPunch wrote:
LaMelo
Killian

Cole
Kira
Riller


Terry
Flynn
Dotson

Maledon
Jones
Mannion
Butler



I'm the same but switch Terry for Riller. And move Jones up one tier.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#587 » by RiotPunch » Sat May 30, 2020 6:49 am

emunney wrote:Have we talked about Mason Jones at all? Because that guy can ball. Reminds me of Redd.

He's a walking bucket. He has reportedly lost 70 pounds since high school. He's a tough eval for me, because he is pretty limited as an athlete, but he can go 1v1 and score on anybody... which if you can do that, you will probably play in the league for a long time.

No shortage of confidence with Mase either. :lol: Kinda reminds me of KPJ.



Mike Schmitz is getting all the film room buzz, but these Jon Chepkevich film room sessions are great as well with the non-lottery dudes.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#588 » by LuessiT » Sat May 30, 2020 11:43 am

Realistically the highest we could trade up is into the late lottery given our limited draft capital. That said there are a few guys I think could be franchise altering that could drop into that range (Haliburton, Avdija and Hayes to name a few).
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#589 » by Badgerlander » Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 am


LAMINE DIANE
Well, we’re here. 60 picks ranked, and 20 players highlighted. Hopefully you’ve followed along, because I think we’ve saved the best for last. Because oh my goodness, is Cal State Northridge forward Lamine Diane (pronounced La-meen Ja-nay) an interesting case. Diane played his two years in college in the Big West Conference, arguably the worst level of competition of any player ranked. However, his stats are simply insane. Two jump out right off the bat. First, he was sixth in the nation in scoring as a freshman two years ago, only to be beat out by finishing third this year! Second, there have only been two seasons in the past 25 years where a player has had such a high usage rate over 37%, and still grab at least 10 rebounds and two blocks per game. Lamine Diane,

…and Lamine Diane.

SO WHY IS DIANE LIKELY GOING TO GO UNDRAFTED?

A great question, is how a player who’s career averages sit at 25.1 PPG, 10.8 RPG, 2.1 BPG and 1.6 SPG fight for a draft spot. Surprisingly, there are actually many cases to be made against Diane. First, as mentioned before, he’s played an extremely weak schedule throughout his college career. In fact, he’s only ever played against one Power Conference school in his entire career. Albeit, that one game was against Washington State, not known for being a powerhouse necessarily. Naturally, Diane put up 32 and 18 with 5 blocks. Irregardless, he has never shown his talents in college against any top level competition, leaving a moderately sized asterisk over nearly all of his stats.

Second, his size is relatively concerning. One would think that with such gaudy rebound and block numbers that Diane would be massive, yet he stands at a conservative 6-7, 205lb. He’s long and can probably put on some weight, but it’s still a stretch to call him a power forward at this point. That brings up the third concern, his lack of shooting ability. Diane went only 23 for 79 from deep over the course of his college career, good for only a 29.1% clip. Even more concerning is his free-throw numbers, where he’s a career 58% shooter. Top it all off with the fact that he’s already 22, and the thought of developing him gets harder.

WHAT’S THE CASE FOR TEAMS GIVING HIM A SHOT IN THE DRAFT?

Numbers are numbers, and Diane’s sure jump off the page. However, more than that, his game is tremendously unique. He mixes in post ups with breakaway dunks and ridiculously difficult fadeaway jumpers. It seems like his greatest move is the element of surprise. Check it out for yourself.



Funny, I do seem to recall a player with a unique game such as him. One who also migrated from West Africa (Diane is from Senegal), whose father’s basketball dreams pushed his own successes, and who dominated a low-major conference the same way Diane did. Oh, and he’s also an NBA Champion, All-Star, and future All-NBA forward.

Yes, Pascal Siakam seems to have a lot in common with Diane. In addition to those similarities, they’ve also had virtually the same knocks against them as prospects. Seriously, read these weaknesses in Siakam’s nbadraft.net scouting report.

PLAYING IN A MID-MAJOR, IT WILL BE TOUGHER TO CONVINCE TEAMS THAT HIS NUMBERS WERE LEGITIMATE AND NOT ENHANCED BY THE LEVEL OF COMPETITION … TURNED 22 IN JANUARY SO THERE IS SOME QUESTION ABOUT HIS UPSIDE…HIS OFFENSIVE GAME IS A LITTLE UNORTHODOX…NEEDS TO ADD SOME UPPER BODY STRENGTH…HE COULD STAND TO ADJUST HIS FORM SOME…

That sounds a whole lot like Diane to me. Now no, I’m not comparing them as carbon copies, and surely it’s unreasonable to expect Diane to reach the levels that Siakam’s climbed to at this point in his NBA career. But Diane’s strengths do compare to Siakam’s as well. They both use their length to their advantage on both ends, and benefit from tremendous footwork. Most importantly though, they both have tireless work ethics, and never seem to run out of steam on the court.

With all things considered, I don’t want to lessen Diane by proving his worth vicariously through Siakam. He is individually one of the most successful, yet polarizing draft prospects in a very long time. The only players to average at least 24.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 2.0 blocks and 1.2 assists per game in one season in the last 25 years? Lamine Diane twice, and Kevin Durant. Yes, I could play these numbers games all day, but they all seek out to prove one point. Lamine Diane is damn good at basketball, and whichever NBA team picks him up is going to have the chance at getting someone special.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#590 » by Badgerlander » Sat May 30, 2020 12:19 pm

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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#591 » by Ruben Quevedo » Sat May 30, 2020 2:47 pm

Riller’s offensive tape is extremely impressive. Wow.

His age and his defense are huge minuses, but he will score efficiently in the NBA if his mentality and work ethic checks out.

I think he should be a candidate for us in the 1st.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#592 » by Badgerlander » Mon Jun 1, 2020 12:48 am

#1) LAMINE DIANE, 6'7, SG/SF, 18.7 YEARS OLD, SENEGAL EWA: 2.1 PER: 33.5 TS%: 61.4% 27.7 PTS, 6.2 REB, 1.5 AST, 1.8 STL, 14-43 3P%, 26-39 FT%, 53.3 FG% Leading the event at 28 points per game (nearly a point per minute), and helping his team to a fourth place finish, Lamine Diane had a breakout performance that will undoubtedly jump-start his college recruitment heading into his senior year at Findlay Prep. A product of Giving Back Academy in Senegal, Diane was uncovered at the 2014 NBA Basketball Without Borders Africa camp in South Africa, earning an invite to the BWB Global Camp in New York City over All-Star weekend the following February. He has made huge strides with his skill-level since, evidenced by his explosive scoring performances in Los Angeles, where he was one of the oldest players at the event. Blessed with a strong frame, long arms, big hands, and solid athleticism, Diane is an extremely aggressive offensive player who loves to drive incisively to the basket, using an array of spin-moves and footwork to draw fouls out of isolation sets. His shooting stroke is long and somewhat unorthodox, but he finds decent results with it, throwing in 13 3-pointers in six games, albeit on pedestrian percentages (33%), partially due to his poor shot-selection. Very ball-dominant, Diane is still figuring out how to operate in a team concept, as he tends to overdribble, lower his shoulder and try to bully his way to the rim using his superior strength, long strides, and tremendous length to help him get a shot off if he can't draw a foul. The fact that he's not freakishly athletic (especially in terms of explosiveness) will mean he has to continue to add polish and feel to his game. Tightening his ball-handling skills, learning how to operate without the ball, and becoming a more unselfish player will be big keys for him to reaching his full potential. Defensively, Diane can cover ground well and has the length to emerge as a multi-positional stopper if he puts his mind to it, but tends to go through the motions at times on this end of the floor. Diane benefited from the wide open nature of this camp, as well as the incredible amount of freedom he enjoyed to do virtually whatever he pleased offensively, but it's tough to argue with the results he saw. It's difficult to find lengthy wings in his mold who can put the ball in the basket, as well as display good potential defensively, so he is certainly a player to monitor heading towards the college level. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/The-Top-Ten-Performers-at-the-2016-adidas-Nations-5640/ ©DraftExpress
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#593 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 1, 2020 5:16 pm

RiotPunch wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:Wat


Compared to other athletic NBA point guards? Absolutely. He's a bit like Curry in that he seems quicker to the rim because he has a good handle, is really good at navigating around interior defenders, and uses his strength well. But end-to-end speed and quick twitch athleticism? I couldn't disagree with the scouts more, if that's what most are indeed saying.

IDK, I think he will be just fine against NBA guards. I think you are underrating his burst, his change of pace coming downhill is pretty tantalizing, and sure maybe his first step isn't elite, I would say it is pretty damn good. Especially out of his trademark rocker step:



At the end of the day he can: score from all 3 levels, create for himself off the dribble, finish at the rim, get to the line. Aside from Obi, Riller is probably the best finisher in this class period, regardless of position, IMO. Would love him in a 6th man role. His main question marks are on defense, but I think that was just an effort/load issue because he was asked to do so much on the other end. Athleticism shows there too when he's locked in.

He seems an awful lot like Lou Williams - in a good way.

He's 23. That's usually considered a negative, but I don't consider it a negative for a team like the Bucks - because he's not going to need as much learning time as most rookies.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#594 » by Ron Swanson » Mon Jun 1, 2020 5:55 pm

I know there was some Tillman talk a while back, but Oturu might be the best Big-Ten prospect this year. Better athlete and I'd trust him to do "big man stuff" at a higher level. 71% from the line and 36% from 3PT range shows you a little stretch upside as well.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#595 » by RiotPunch » Mon Jun 1, 2020 8:23 pm

You would be hard-pressed to find two player more dissimilar than Tillman and Oturu. Tillman is lacking in height and athleticism, but has a brilliant basketball mind-- makes all of the right plays on both ends, selfless player. Oturu is more athletic, decent rim protector, but with really bad feel for the game and is incredibly selfish. I don't have much interest in ball-stopping energy bigs.

I would definitely trust Tillman more to do "big man things" as well with the gumption to not get caught.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#596 » by Ron Swanson » Mon Jun 1, 2020 8:48 pm

Yeah they're pretty polar opposites and Tillman has the higher floor, but if Oturu hits he's gonna be the better player. Average wingspan, athleticism, and shooting I feel are just dooming Tillman to a lifetime bench/role-player. Don't see him ever being either an elite rim-protector or a good enough floor-spacer, which are the two most important traits if you're looking to plug a center into this offense.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#597 » by Ruzious » Mon Jun 1, 2020 11:03 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah they're pretty polar opposites and Tillman has the higher floor, but if Oturu hits he's gonna be the better player. Average wingspan, athleticism, and shooting I feel are just dooming Tillman to a lifetime bench/role-player. Don't see him ever being either an elite rim-protector or a good enough floor-spacer, which are the two most important traits if you're looking to plug a center into this offense.

Otoh, the high BBIQ, excellent passing ability, and solid mobility and strength/physicality that allows him to be in the right spots defensively - these are things Milwaukee's outstanding systems can use. I concur that the Indy pick is too high to use on him, but if Mil buys a 2nd rounder... maybe. But tbh, I'd rather use a roster spot for 3rd center on Justin Patton.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#598 » by RiotPunch » Tue Jun 2, 2020 12:43 am

Ruzious wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Yeah they're pretty polar opposites and Tillman has the higher floor, but if Oturu hits he's gonna be the better player. Average wingspan, athleticism, and shooting I feel are just dooming Tillman to a lifetime bench/role-player. Don't see him ever being either an elite rim-protector or a good enough floor-spacer, which are the two most important traits if you're looking to plug a center into this offense.

Otoh, the high BBIQ, excellent passing ability, and solid mobility and strength/physicality that allows him to be in the right spots defensively - these are things Milwaukee's outstanding systems can use. I concur that the Indy pick is too high to use on him, but if Mil buys a 2nd rounder... maybe. But tbh, I'd rather use a roster spot for 3rd center on Justin Patton.

I pretty much agree, but I buy Tillman becoming at least a respectable shooter, and basically just trust him to figure out how to fit in. He doesn't have the pop you'd like as a rim-protector, but he has truly outlier BBIQ that shows up in the form of impeccable rotations/timing/angles/etc. Good mover, brute strength, elite passing for a big. That guy is hard to find, contributes to winning basketball, and has a place on the floor when it matters most, IMO. I'd go elsewhere at 19, but his value is in that range for the right team, IMO.

The value alternative plays for guys like Stewart, Achiuwa, Oturu, etc. are better, IMO. Guys like Yves Pons, Kaleb Wesson, Mamadi Diakite, Nick Richards, Boriša Simanić present lower risk with similar outcome probabilities. Even scrap heap bigs like you mentioned to fill that energy big role. Low IQ energy bigs are a tough bet to make with 1st round capital for me, I guess. Maybe I'm just permanently scarred and it's the Deyonta Effect.
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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#599 » by Badgerlander » Thu Jun 4, 2020 8:37 pm

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Re: Indiana Pacers Draft Pick Watch Thread 

Post#600 » by Badgerlander » Thu Jun 4, 2020 10:27 pm

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