OT: Investing/Stocks/Bonds/Mutual Funds/Crypto

[midranger]

I learned what NFTs are today, and my life is worse for it.

I just read about them today.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/09/975450173/the-200k-nba-nft

Maybe one of you guys can explain to me the value in this. I get to own a Giannis dunk moment? WTF.

It’s a limited digital limited basketball card that’s tradeable/sellable via block chain.

It’s pool is diluted literally every single nba game that’s played.

[jschligs]

I’ve been a big crypto person for a while now, but I just can’t get behind NFTs.

[vegaspacker]

Nfts are a funny thing, I know that Mark Cuban has been pumping them and I can't seem to get excited either. I did purchase a bunch of Mana a few weeks back and a few shares of Roblox yesterday but that might be it.

I'm heavy on Link. Got some Eth, Bit, and Lumens to mix up that part of my portfolio.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I learned what NFTs are today, and my life is worse for it.

I just read about them today.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/09/975450173/the-200k-nba-nft

Maybe one of you guys can explain to me the value in this. I get to own a Giannis dunk moment? WTF.

It’s a limited digital limited basketball card that’s tradeable/sellable via block chain.

It’s pool is diluted literally every single nba game that’s played.

Yeah you have to view Top Shot through the lense of trading cards. We can find pictures of trading cards too but people have valued those pieces of cardboard for decades. Anyone can Google a picture of a Michael Jordan rookie card and print it out at a higher resolution than the original card, so why does that piece of cardboard have value? There are some advantages of digital cards vs cardboard like ease and speed of transactions, no haggling about condition, transparency on volume, ect.

NTFs in general could have some potential interesting usages like IP and in the music industry.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[M-C-G]

If you owned the digital rights outright, sure, makes some sense. Would probably pay good money for the original air jordan kiss the rim dunk, but I have a hard time seeing actual value otherwise.

[Siefer]

I learned what NFTs are today, and my life is worse for it.

I just read about them today.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/09/975450173/the-200k-nba-nft

Maybe one of you guys can explain to me the value in this. I get to own a Giannis dunk moment? WTF.

My first impression was horror, and so I dug into them, and came out more horrified. They exist at the delightful intersection of collectibles and financial contraptions. Some collectibles become financial contraptions over time (see old Magic cards), but NFTs are specifically trying to be a financial contraption.

I don't even think we need to get into the physical/digital thing. The high end art market is a fetid financial tool for the very rich. NFTs want to be that thing, while also bringing the casino to the middle class. This isn't good for artists, or regular folks, imo. It's just a new speculative market.

[HaroldinGMinor]

I kind of get it from the artist side of things. There are a lot of digital artists and it's very hard for them to sell work. Using blockchain they can do that and the buyer can be assured it's an original. Yeah sure you can take a screen capture with your phone but you can also get a poster of the Mona Lisa. There is value in having the original piece.

At least, that's my understanding.

[Stannis]

I kind of get it from the artist side of things. There are a lot of digital artists and it's very hard for them to sell work. Using blockchain they can do that and the buyer can be assured it's an original. Yeah sure you can take a screen capture with your phone but you can also get a poster of the Mona Lisa. There is value in having the original piece.

At least, that's my understanding.

I haven't read about NFTs at all.

But you can literally make an exact copy from a digital piece via a screenshot. Literally, no quality loss.

But seeing the Mona Lisa in person is something else. You can get a copy of it. But it's not the same.

I'm not sure what the premium is for with these digital pieces. Physical art has that "feel" to it, which is why the rich pay so much for art pieces.

Not sure what the deal is with the NFTs/art or whatever. Can people still take screenshots of them and make copies? Unless being an "NFT" prevents others from copying it or taking a screenshot, I really don't see the point.

[ReasonablySober]

I kind of get it from the artist side of things. There are a lot of digital artists and it's very hard for them to sell work. Using blockchain they can do that and the buyer can be assured it's an original. Yeah sure you can take a screen capture with your phone but you can also get a poster of the Mona Lisa. There is value in having the original piece.

At least, that's my understanding.

I haven't read about NFTs at all.

But you can literally make an exact copy from a digital piece via a screenshot. Literally, no quality loss.

But seeing the Mona Lisa in person is something else. You can get a copy of it. But it's not the same.

I'm not sure what the premium is for with these digital pieces. Physical art has that "feel" to it, which is why the rich pay so much for art pieces.

Not sure what the deal is with the NFTs/art or whatever. Can people still take screenshots of them and make copies? Unless being an "NFT" prevents others from copying it or taking a screenshot, I really don't see the point.

Read on Twitter

[Stannis]

Digital trading cards might have potential. I know they already exist but not sure how in the new "NFT" form.

If there's an online platform for Magic, Yugioh, and Pokemon, these could be valuable. As certain cards are better than others. And these cards serve purposes in official tournaments and stuff. But I'm not sure why they can't just use standard currency for purchasing.

And I'm not sure about this NBA Top Shot stuff. I used to college bball cards when I was younger. Those were fun to trade. And it was nice to go through because I didn't have internet to see pictures and stats.

But I honestly don't get this top shot stuff. This one is going for a quarter million:

https://www.nbatopshot.com/listings/p2p/814c5183-596f-41d7-9135-c6b29faa9c6d+e48cf01d-0343-48fd-a4ae-c789633cba11?serialNumber=2

But it literally lets you see the clip?? A clip that is already searchable on YouTube. People actually pay a quarter million for this?

What do I know though. Teenagers on social media probably make x10 as much as me.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If we're being real most collectables are stupid and worthless to some degree. A physical sports card is just a piece of cardboard, a painting is just canvas and paint. I can buy plate at target for cheap and it's probably better quality than an antique. An old car will be less reliable and efficient than a new one. Hell a diamond is just a hard stone. (Not a perfect analogy because there are some practical uses for a diamond). Value is only there if someone finds value in it, but with billions of people in this world it only takes a small percentage to see value for something to have value.

Then look at crypto, Bitcoin is basically a large pyramid scheme. The only real value is the belief someone later will pay more for it and that person is only buying it because they hope a future person finds value. If everyone at once decided Bitcoin was worthless it would be. It's just made up digital money. The funny thing about pyramid schemes is they actually work and continue to work as long as you continue to expand.

Now personally I'd caution people who actually want to 'invest' real money in any NTF because it's so new no one really knows if it will last. Now if you want to **** around with it can be fun. I threw a couple hundred down on Top Shot a few weeks ago and now have $1000 in my account and a collection of some moments of dudes I like that have a current resale 'value' of like $800. It's been fun buying and selling but more in a game way than investing.
Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[M-C-G]

So apparently SSR (not a stock) is an acronym for Short Sale Rule is being discussed so much, BOTs have picked it up like it was a stock and trying to trick people into selling GME. I am posting this more for general awareness that places like yahoo conversation, reddit etc. are full of crazy bots trying to sway conversation. Spoiler image has the bots working overtime.

*What is the SSR Rule? The short-sale rule or SSR, is also known as the alternative uptick rule or SEC rule 201. The SSR restricts short-sales on a stock that has declined in price by 10 percent or more from the previous day's close. Once triggered, the SSR remains in effect until the end of the following trading day. That means they can only short on upticks. But not on downticks.

Spoiler:

[Stannis]

If we're being real most collectables are stupid and worthless to some degree. A physical sports card is just a piece of cardboard, a painting is just canvas and paint. I can buy plate at target for cheap and it's probably better quality than an antique. An old car will be less reliable and efficient than a new one. Hell a diamond is just a hard stone. (Not a perfect analogy because there are some practical uses for a diamond). Value is only there if someone finds value in it, but with billions of people in this world it only takes a small percentage to see value for something to have value.

Then look at crypto, Bitcoin is basically a large pyramid scheme. The only real value is the belief someone later will pay more for it and that person is only buying it because they hope a future person finds value. If everyone at once decided Bitcoin was worthless it would be. It's just made up digital money. The funny thing about pyramid schemes is they actually work and continue to work as long as you continue to expand.

Now personally I'd caution people who actually want to 'invest' real money in any NTF because it's so new no one really knows if it will last. Now if you want to **** around with it can be fun. I threw a couple hundred down on Top Shot a few weeks ago and now have $1000 in my account and a collection of some moments of dudes I like that have a current resale 'value' of like $800. It's been fun buying and selling but more in a game way than investing.

As far as collectables, I get what you are saying. But physical collectables have that touch and feel that can't be copied. NFTs can easily be copied. I think this NFT movement is more about principle in trying to get digital artist a way to make money. If it stays like this, I think it'll be worthless. Eventually they will have to add some rights or encryption so people can't copy or screenshot & share. But what do I know.

As far as Bitcoin, you were probably right when Bitcoin first started. Now there are so many alt coins that actually have meaningful projects and programs. And they tend to prefer Bitcoin as a payment.

EDIT:

Since Jack Dorsey is "tokenizing" his tweets and selling them. It has a 2.5m bid. My question, what does the owner actually get? Jack's first tweet is still going to be on twitter and viewable.

In this case, a screenshot of a tweet isn't exactly the same as an actual tweet.

So maybe if Jack deletes the tweet, the Tokenized version will be more valuable and might actually have a use?

I got no freaking idea...

[Stannis]

Is OnlyFans going to get into NFT lol?

[jschligs]

If we're being real most collectables are stupid and worthless to some degree. A physical sports card is just a piece of cardboard, a painting is just canvas and paint. I can buy plate at target for cheap and it's probably better quality than an antique. An old car will be less reliable and efficient than a new one. Hell a diamond is just a hard stone. (Not a perfect analogy because there are some practical uses for a diamond). Value is only there if someone finds value in it, but with billions of people in this world it only takes a small percentage to see value for something to have value.

Then look at crypto, Bitcoin is basically a large pyramid scheme. The only real value is the belief someone later will pay more for it and that person is only buying it because they hope a future person finds value. If everyone at once decided Bitcoin was worthless it would be. It's just made up digital money. The funny thing about pyramid schemes is they actually work and continue to work as long as you continue to expand.

Now personally I'd caution people who actually want to 'invest' real money in any NTF because it's so new no one really knows if it will last. Now if you want to **** around with it can be fun. I threw a couple hundred down on Top Shot a few weeks ago and now have $1000 in my account and a collection of some moments of dudes I like that have a current resale 'value' of like $800. It's been fun buying and selling but more in a game way than investing.

As far as collectables, I get what you are saying. But physical collectables have that touch and feel that can't be copied. NFTs can easily be copied. I think this NFT movement is more about principle in trying to get digital artist a way to make money. If it stays like this, I think it'll be worthless. Eventually they will have to add some rights or encryption so people can't copy or screenshot & share. But what do I know.

As far as Bitcoin, you were probably right when Bitcoin first started. Now there are so many alt coins that actually have meaningful projects and programs. And they tend to prefer Bitcoin as a payment.

EDIT:

Since Jack Dorsey is "tokenizing" his tweets and selling them. It has a 2.5m bid. My question, what does the owner actually get? Jack's first tweet is still going to be on twitter and viewable.

In this case, a screenshot of a tweet isn't exactly the same as an actual tweet.

So maybe if Jack deletes the tweet, the Tokenized version will be more valuable and might actually have a use?

I got no freaking idea...

NTFs are still unique in that they are on blockchain. Yes, you can copy the clip, the art, whatever, but in regards to being authenticated it's impossible to copy. That's where the value is.

It's just like you can copy a trading card, but any expert will know that its a fake.

Bitcoin to me is just another currency. The dollar is just a made up value, but overtime has become the dominate currency that we use to make transactions. Just because something is digital, doesn't mean it is made up money/value. And to Stannis' point, there are real projects that use blockchain technology that have stemmed from BTC. There is real value in that technology.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If we're being real most collectables are stupid and worthless to some degree. A physical sports card is just a piece of cardboard, a painting is just canvas and paint. I can buy plate at target for cheap and it's probably better quality than an antique. An old car will be less reliable and efficient than a new one. Hell a diamond is just a hard stone. (Not a perfect analogy because there are some practical uses for a diamond). Value is only there if someone finds value in it, but with billions of people in this world it only takes a small percentage to see value for something to have value.

Then look at crypto, Bitcoin is basically a large pyramid scheme. The only real value is the belief someone later will pay more for it and that person is only buying it because they hope a future person finds value. If everyone at once decided Bitcoin was worthless it would be. It's just made up digital money. The funny thing about pyramid schemes is they actually work and continue to work as long as you continue to expand.

Now personally I'd caution people who actually want to 'invest' real money in any NTF because it's so new no one really knows if it will last. Now if you want to **** around with it can be fun. I threw a couple hundred down on Top Shot a few weeks ago and now have $1000 in my account and a collection of some moments of dudes I like that have a current resale 'value' of like $800. It's been fun buying and selling but more in a game way than investing.

As far as collectables, I get what you are saying. But physical collectables have that touch and feel that can't be copied. NFTs can easily be copied. I think this NFT movement is more about principle in trying to get digital artist a way to make money. If it stays like this, I think it'll be worthless. Eventually they will have to add some rights or encryption so people can't copy or screenshot & share. But what do I know.

As far as Bitcoin, you were probably right when Bitcoin first started. Now there are so many alt coins that actually have meaningful projects and programs. And they tend to prefer Bitcoin as a payment.

EDIT:

Since Jack Dorsey is "tokenizing" his tweets and selling them. It has a 2.5m bid. My question, what does the owner actually get? Jack's first tweet is still going to be on twitter and viewable.

In this case, a screenshot of a tweet isn't exactly the same as an actual tweet.

So maybe if Jack deletes the tweet, the Tokenized version will be more valuable and might actually have a use?

I got no freaking idea...

NTFs are still unique in that they are on blockchain. Yes, you can copy the clip, the art, whatever, but in regards to being authenticated it's impossible to copy. That's where the value is.

It's just like you can copy a trading card, but any expert will know that its a fake.

Bitcoin to me is just another currency. The dollar is just a made up value, but overtime has become the dominate currency that we use to make transactions. Just because something is digital, doesn't mean it is made up money/value. And to Stannis' point, there are real projects that use blockchain technology that have stemmed from BTC. There is real value in that technology.

For sure 'money' as a whole is just a concept and only works because we as a society agree to make it work. There's an interesting part of the book Sapiens on the topic. We've seen failed nations where the money litterally just turns back to paper when the system falls apart.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Stannis]

NTFs are still unique in that they are on blockchain. Yes, you can copy the clip, the art, whatever, but in regards to being authenticated it's impossible to copy. That's where the value is.

It's just like you can copy a trading card, but any expert will know that its a fake.

Bitcoin to me is just another currency. The dollar is just a made up value, but overtime has become the dominate currency that we use to make transactions. Just because something is digital, doesn't mean it is made up money/value. And to Stannis' point, there are real projects that use blockchain technology that have stemmed from BTC. There is real value in that technology.

Let's use Jack Dorsey's "tokenized tweet" as an example:

https://v.cent.co/tweet/20

Whoever ends up owning the "tokenized tweet", what do they get? Do they actually own the tweet? Because as far as I know, Jack still owns it under his Twitter account. And the tweet is still viewable.

The value I see is if Twitter shuts down or Jack deletes his tweet. And NFTs become some sort of digital storage vault.

Sorry if I'm being naive. I've been reading about NFTs for a whole 20 minutes.

I've been a collector of many things like retro video games (Sega games and systems in particular, still collect) and basketball and pokemon cards cards (still have them but don't collect anymore). It's VERY easy to spot differences between originals and fakes, especially if you have an original as a source.


I still have Pokemon cards that are valuable because they stopped production when they changed companies and don't make certain cards anymore. I think this is why they grew in value (you can't make a 1 for 1 copy). But I don't get how NFTs will grow in value if 1:1 copies are floating around.

I just don't see the appeal in owning an NBA TopShot clip because it has some unique code. It's still a verbatim clip you have on YouTube. And I don't ever see those becoming scarce.

[jschligs]

I think I am as naive as you on the NTFs. I don't like them, but I guess I can see the value? Maybe? No, sorry I can't haha

[M-C-G]

I am sure someone is going to make a fortune on those things. If you don't own the digital rights, I just don't see the point and with some of these valuations, it makes owning the digital rights astronomical by comparison. I'd pay to own something like Bo Jackson running up the outfield wall for instance, or Jordan crossing back over Byron Russel and hitting the jumper, if I knew I got some type of pay every time it aired. That has real value to me.

[MickeyDavis]

Cuban pimping it means he already has a plan to score.