PG Nets Game 3 - Survive and Alive

[Milbucks96]

the god damn coach literally tells Giannis to take those **** 3s ffs get it thru your head people, I feel like half of you want Jason Kidd back now. We truly going full circle.

Is he telling him to miss fts too? Throw the ball away?
Fumble passes? Drive into multiple defenders? Take plays off on defense? Stare while others rebound? Jump up and down when he doesn’t get the ball at the top of the key? Take 20 secs on fts? Set a screen to roll, catch the ball, stop then iso? Drag his pivot foot 2 feet from where he established it in the post? Giannis is the ONLY player I’ve ever seen that gets a pass for being a chucker. I remember when Kyrie came out and said he was going to shoot even more and he was mocked around here, Giannis just said he will shoot as much as he wants if “it feels right” and people are saying “it’s not his fault!”, “He doesn’t know any better!” The 27 year old, 8 year vet, father, doesn’t have any control over the shots he takes

[ReasonablySober]

Watch on YouTube

Explains why whoever decided to put muscle on Giannis, needs to be sacked ASAP.

Seeing the "whoever ruined Giannis's jumpshot should be arrested" stuff on Twitter the last day has been amusing but very stupid. Giannis was a garbage shooter early in his career. Maybe it looked prettier but the result was just as bad.

[TD75]

It is quite funny to me how the Bucks are a certain European coach away from fixing all their perceived issues with Giannis, but they are never going to even attempt to hire said coach.

If you can not properly utilize a talent like Giannis, just trade him. At least this will make a lot of posters here happy (until the next failed season).

[DrWood]

This talking about trading Giannis is room temp IQ stuff, you folks are truly a miserable bunch and i think you get off on it. If this is too stressful for you then maybe NBA basketball isn’t really your sport?

The thing is, I feel like my opening to the idea of trading him is among my least emotional takes in terms of the Bucks as a whole. Let's pray it's just a coaching issue, but if it's not, there's no point in pretending like he's perfect.

You can give up on NBA basketball in Milwaukee if a two time MVP can’t get it done. Lebron isn’t walking thru that door, this isn’t NBA 2k. You guys seem to like the security and safety of tanking more than winning & overcoming adversity, if you’d rather be in OKC’s situation than ours then you are a disgrace who should quit watching basketball. I’ll take my chances with the guy who has made Bucks basketball relevant for the first time since Ronald Reagan was president.

Yeah, the best case scenario if you trade Giannis is having another 3-5 year stretch where the team loses in the second round (after 2-3 years of crap).

[DutchManDanFan]

Only 1 bounce please. And with the second FT shoot it quickly and go for the offensive rebound.

For the second fta, practice & perfect self assisted putback dunks.

Suddenly, the narrative becomes Giannis could be going for the 2-5pt play. Giannis FT earns it's own pseudonym & legend.

If they send him to the line again by wrapping him up before the putback, is it worth another possible 2 or 3 points?

I was thinking about a quick 2nd free throw and Pat flying in from outside to get the rebound, while the Nets are waiting for Giannis to finish his routine. I think this works at least once and is much better then the 10 second foul. Giannis needs to hit the rim though.


He probably makes the FT if they try this...

[Sigra]

He can be the best player on a championship team, he just can't be the lead decision maker.

What if I told you that Giannis simply has no interest in playing on a team where he isn't getting to run the offense and make all the decisions? Just like he has no interest in playing as a center and doing the dirty work as a big man. I've been telling people it's a pipe dream for years, Giannis is not a big because mentally he will never view himself in that way. He wants the ball in his hands and its all he knows how to do. He sucks off ball because he has no idea how to play in space, can't really screen for jack, and just literally runs at the ball. All he knows is get ball>go as aggressive as possible to hoop. Just attack and be aggressive. To be fair, this is effective to a certain point because he has crazy physical ability and a decent enough handle when straight line driving. But with no understanding of how to use his gravity to manipulate a defense to generate a shot for a teammate, no great desire to do that either he becomes exceedingly predictable and unadaptable. Factor in his terrible footwork overall, which limits him in the post to basically trying to overpower or a quick spin or pump fake and go while also making him an awkward screener and preventing him from being able to regularly get into a shooting motion on balance, and you have a recipe for disaster against good teams.

I think Giannis pretty obviously has all of the markers of the dudes who completely lack self awareness of how they should play but people both brush it aside or are blind to it because he is still really freaking good overall AND actually is a great defender (which typically the lack of self awareness guys just don't play defense at all so it's an anomaly in that regard).

It's just funny to me that so many posters here can so readily recognize the type of players that teams will struggle to win with at a high level when they are on other teams, but can't see it with Giannis despite it slapping them in the face nonstop. Maybe you can try another year or two if you bring in a new coach like Dantoni who completely changes how Giannis is used or some superstar on ball player (though how are we acquiring that?), but IMO Giannis is gonna do what Giannis does no matter who is holding the clipboard. It's just really really hard to win when you have a guy running your offense throwing away like 10-15 possessions per game with his awful turnover 3pt attempts and then inexplicable turnovers who ALSO THINKS HES MAKING THE RIGHT READS.

such a great post man. i love you

[Sigra]

You obviously don't trade Giannis. You try a different coach first.

Right, that way we will know is it about Giannis or coach.

The thing is, other teams will watch that too. if we get to the point that we are sure its about Giannis then other teams will know that too.

In other words, when we are sure that we shold trade Giannis then Giannis will not have trade value he has now. Brilliant GMs anticipate things before other GMs see it.

I am sure its Giannis. He wants to be playmaker with ball in his hands at 3 point line. He will stay in Milwaukee to have his own team. And yes, he would rather lose in playoffs than being inside player who play without ball.

When it become clear to everybody it will be too late to get something good for him in trade. His trade value is already not as good as last year. It will be lower with every new year.

[Sigra]

Just to add to my last post, Bud has to know he's on the hot seat. The previous game was obviously the biggest of his career to this point. If he's replaced after this season, he's almost certainly never going to be in a better coaching situation. The likelihood of coaching a talent like Giannis again is basically nil. And what happened? His prize pupil chucked up 8 three pointers in a game starved for the smallest amount of offense despite that player shooting 3-24 (.125%) entering the game in the playoffs. His star pupil was called for a 10 second violation on a free throw and went 4-9 from the line.

The Bucks have countless flaws that can traced back to an ineffectual coach. I hate to say it because I like Bud, but it is the truth. There is literally no excuse for some of the things the team is doing under his coaching. Amongst the most obvious, there shouldn't be a single NBA coach that is fine with Giannis taking 8 threes in what is essentially an elimination playoff game. There shouldn't be a single NBA coach that is fine with Giannis continuing his absurdly long free throw routine that not only stretches the rules, but is clearly not effective.

Bud has lost the plot.

My main problem with Bud is minute distribution (too much bench) and drop defense. Together with inability to adjust in playoffs series.

But I am not going to blame him for Giannis freedom. Bud looks like really inteligent person. There is a good chance he realized that Giannis needs to play on instincts. If he gives him orders what to do and what not to do then Giannis thinks about those things and we see in so many things that he is not good when he has to think. Maybe Bud tried that and Giannis had bad games untill he gave him freedom back. and being this big for Milwaukee Giannis will win any battle with any coach. If Giannis demand to play on instincts (as his last post game interview indicate) then you kind of have no choise. well, you can punish him somehow but then he can demand trade or just play bad and become Dwight Howard.

But even if Giannis does whatever coach wants wothout comaplain, you still have to use him in the way that makes him happy because if he is not happy he will play passive and without confidence and then you lose that force that you want in the first place.

So yeah, I will stick with Bud here. He probably knows that he has to give Giannis freedom to play on instincts if he wants to have agressive and dominant Giannis.

[mediocrityrules]

You obviously don't trade Giannis. You try a different coach first.

Right, that way we will know is it about Giannis or coach.

The thing is, other teams will watch that too. if we get to the point that we are sure its about Giannis then other teams will know that too.

In other words, when we are sure that we shold trade Giannis then Giannis will not have trade value he has now. Brilliant GMs anticipate things before other GMs see it.

I am sure its Giannis. He wants to be playmaker with ball in his hands at 3 point line. He will stay in Milwaukee to have his own team. And yes, he would rather lose in playoffs than being inside player who play without ball.

When it become clear to everybody it will be too late to get something good for him in trade. His trade value is already not as good as last year. It will be lower with every new year.

Giannis will always have trade value. He's a two-time MVP. Other GM's will always think that they will know how to utilize him properly (if we don't figure it out). We just need a smarter coach, that knows what pieces are needed around him but more importantly, how they're meant to be used.

But there's always one thing that we're missing that is even harder to get, and that's BBIQ on court. We need guys that know who should be where and doing what at any one time. Floor generals so to speak. We have no high IQ BB guys on this team, and that is to our detriment. We need smarter players. Giannis, for all his talents, is a real low IQ guy on the court.

[Ayt]

It’s so crazy to me that everything wrong with Giannis game is somebody else’s fault but his. If you don’t want to trade the guy that’s fine, but to blame all his flaws on a coach that literally made him a two time mvp and dpoy just doesn’t make sense to me. We had probably the best two year run of a team that didn’t win and we would’ve if Giannis had just played ok in game 3 of the raps series.

Giannis feeling comfortable taking 8 threes last game is absolutely a coaching failure.

[Sigra]

He didnt even know that he took 8. Was suprised at press when he heard that. He is playing on instincts. Probably because he is at his best when he plays on instincts.

[Pachinko_]

Nah, he will do what he's told, and if he's told to play differently he'll play differently. I mean I obviously don't know this for sure, but that's my gut feel.

It would take him forever and a day to settle into his new role, because he's a creature of habit, but eventually this will become his new routine and then he will settle into it and will forget the previous routine even existed.

[Pachinko_]

Regardless, when you're cornered and you don't have cap space or assets to trade, you change the coach, because that's the only thing you can actually do.

[Antinomy]

It’s so crazy to me that everything wrong with Giannis game is somebody else’s fault but his. If you don’t want to trade the guy that’s fine, but to blame all his flaws on a coach that literally made him a two time mvp and dpoy just doesn’t make sense to me. We had probably the best two year run of a team that didn’t win and we would’ve if Giannis had just played ok in game 3 of the raps series.

Giannis feeling comfortable taking 8 threes last game is absolutely a coaching failure.

I just can’t believe he had the audacity to launch 8 3s in a game we absolutely needed to stay alive this season. He’s the worst shooter on the team.

Especially the ones he took in the 4th when it was close & the score was tied 76-76. Unbelievable.

I was just wondering when he was gonna brick one badly then Kyrie or Durant would come down & hit a 3 in response. We majorly dodged a bullet.

How people can blame Bud is beyond me. I HIGHLY doubt he’s telling Giannis to go out there & launch 3s.

Somebody close to him (Thanasis maybe) needs to tell him to stop shooting 3s. I know my brother would.

[Antinomy]

Blaming Giannis’s muscle for his shooting is one of the funnier things I’ve read here, ever.

It’s completely silly.

As a guy with a lot of muscle, it’s barely noticeable when I’m shooting a basketball because it’s all technique.

If anything, his long arms, wingspan & giant hands might be a much bigger factor.

The only guy I can think of with similar measurements in those categories is Kawhi, but he’s 6 inches shorter & a wing.

[jakecronus8]

Blaming Giannis’s muscle for his shooting is one of the funnier things I’ve read here, ever.

It’s completely silly.

As a guy with a lot of muscle, it’s barely noticeable when I’m shooting a basketball because it’s all technique.

If anything, his long arms, wingspan & giant hands might be a much bigger factor.

The only guy I can think of with similar measurements in those categories is Kawhi, but he’s 6 inches shorter & a wing.

I agree with this. It comes down to coaching, mental control and stubbornness, in my opinion. Certainly not due to a lack of Reps or work ethic.

[coolhandluke121]

I remember being one of about 5 people here (Newz, PP25, a few others) trying to explain why they should trade Bogut in his prime and everyone thought it was crazy.

I remember a similar thing with Sigra and a few others trying to explain why they should trade Redd in his prime, and the rest of the board came down hard on him, including me at times (that's when I learned to never be close-minded about trading players and go into denial about the warning signs that other people were insightfully pointing out).

I remember the same thing with Jennings, Yi, and especially Jabari, and how hard 95% of the board came down on those proposals. I remember GoS trying to warn everyone about Sanders for a good solid year and hardly anyone would listen.

I remember arguing with you on occasion about Jabari. You were right, we should have traded him.

That said it looks like you've basically advocated for every one of our "franchise faces" in the past 15 years to be traded at some point and not even being a future Hall of Famer who is willing to spend 13 years in Milwaukee deters you. No wonder people just tune that out after awhile and/or cast doubt on how discerning you were actually being. It's not that hard to feel vindicated in saying "we should have traded x sooner" if anything short of a championship makes you miserable anyway.

I had very clear reasons for wanting to trade all of those guys and I wanted to trade them when their value was at their highest. It wasn't reactionary or indiscriminate. I gave very clear reasons for why all of them would be disappointments and why the Bucks should trade high on them, and those reasons proved accurate basically every time.

And I'm not indiscriminately advocating a Giannis trade either. I haven't started talking about that much until now, but the evidence is becoming overwhelming and it's too much to ignore. It's become pretty obvious that he's a really dumb player who lacks too many basic skills and instincts, and I think the Bucks should trade him before everyone else realizes it too, just like I thought they should trade Bogut, Yi, Jennings, Sanders, and Jabari before their value started to decline. I gave Giannis MUCH longer than those guys, and rightfully so, but the situation got ridiculous. I've been alluding to my concerns about him for a long time, including during his contract talks, the start of the year when he played the dumbest basketball I've ever seen for a star, and the bubble which is when this all really started to get out of hand (that's when I invented the Giannis "shock collar" posts), so it's not just a reaction to the last game either - though I admit I was sickened by it, and it shows in my tone.

But you can't accuse someone of proposing willy nilly trades all the time if they articulate very specific reasons for wanting to make those trades and those reasons prove accurate time and again.

[coolhandluke121]

Did you really tell someone else ‘dumb comparison’ when you just compared Giannis freakin Antetokounmpo, and how he alone makes us a contender, to the likes of Bogut, Redd, Yi, and Jennings? Lmao

Giannis already is a HOFer. He’s going to be one of the best 20 basketball players of all time, maybe top 10. What aren’t you understanding?

Ask the Knicks how the Melo ordeal went about and if they should have traded him sooner. I don't think it's totally out of question thinking about trading Giannis. That said now imo is not the time.

Giannis is so much better and more impactful than Carmelo's ever been.

Can't believe some of the stuff I've read in the last 24 hours.

Just **** incredible that you continue to interpret such posts as direct player comparisons. You can't possibly be that dense, so I'm assuming you are just trying to rewrite your opponents' arguments. Then again, that would be pretty shrewd, and it's hard to give that much credit to someone who can't see how incredibly dumb Giannis is on the court... so I guess you really do think this is comparing Giannis to Melo, don't you?

Once again, this is comparing the decision-making process and the understanding of asset management. Giannis is worth much more than Melo and the Bucks would get much more for him in a trade. That's a given, and it's really obnoxious to suggest that anyone is saying otherwise. The point is that an exposed fraud loses a ton of trade value, whether it's a top-10 star like Melo becoming a bench offense guy or an MVP like Giannis being exposed and becoming more of a defensive specialist even if he's still an all-star, unlike Melo. The point is not that they had the same value before and after being exposed, but how much value they lost. How can you fail to understand that?

[coolhandluke121]

Regardless, when you're cornered and you don't have cap space or assets to trade, you change the coach, because that's the only thing you can actually do.

Sure, try a new coach. It's worth a shot. They can still get great value for Giannis in a trade next year. If I had to bet, I would say we have another year that plays out like the last two, maybe even slightly worse, and then it becomes much more feasible to consider trading Giannis. He might even ask for it eventually, for example if Jrue and Brook decline and they can't afford to match an RFA offer to DDV.

[yannisk]

too many exaggerations on this thread. Is Giannis a perfect basketball player? should he take 8 3s in a game? No, let's get this out of the way

Someone reading this would think the Bucks have a good team but somehow a guy gets in the starting lineup and destroys everything with his stupid mistakes and his selfishness. If the Bucks are any good he is the biggest reason by far. We saw the team when he missed games earlier in the season. Even in this series he is 28ppg 13rpg on 54% FG . Please check the stats of the rest of the team

The 3p shots, when Simmons does not take them everybody is ''he should take some'' "'at least Giannis tries them in games". Here on this board everybody in the past was "he overthinks them" and "when he is wide open he should take them without hesitation" . Personally I think he should not be taking them (or at least no more than 1 or 2) but when you are on a team that has the let it fly philosophy and Robin Lopez was shooting 4 3s per 36, players are encouraged to shoot when open and he is always open. The coach has to put a break on the Giannis 3p shots

The team does not have much of a ball movement, Giannis isos, Khris iso, a few more Jrue iso. There is not much difference between Giannis taking an open 3p shot and Khris shooting a difficult turnaround from 18ft while defended. Both are bad shots, the Giannis 3p is a 30% shot and the Khris shot is a 45% shot (i am being generous, it is not) both result in the same number of points.

Still I think Bucks should give it a try with another coach and if the result is the same they should trade Giannis. There are not many avenues to improve the roster drastically, the widely praised Horst has left the team with no assets. So you either trade Middleton (he won't fetch much alone and we don't have what to package him with) or Giannis and restructure the team with the players he would bring in.