ATL - NBA to investigate Lowry/Ball deals for tampering, pg. 81

[Profound23]

Apparently OKC offered Shai and #6 for for #1.

Rumors are Detroit isn’t all in on Cade, so I wonder how much they considered this.

I don't even love Cade the way some others do but that's an easy no. SGA is about to get paid and there's nobody you really feel great about at #6. If OKC really wants Cade, they have plenty more picks they can add to try to tempt Detroit.

Supposedly OKC is talking to TOR about pick #4. Maybe it ends up being SGA/pick 4 to Det, pick 1 to OKC, pick 6/pick #18 to Tor?

[Profound23]

I really hope the NBA sticks to their guns about not calling defensive fouls for players who pump fake then jump into the defender. If they do this the Nets immediately lose 30-40% of their offensive game plan.

[ReasonablySober]

Isn't SGA on the upper end of what you hope Cade can be? Like, maybe Cade's ceiling is a bit higher, but man, SGA is really good.

[Profound23]

Isn't SGA on the upper end of what you hope Cade can be? Like, maybe Cade's ceiling is a bit higher, but man, SGA is really good.

Yeah, I guess the reason either DET or OKC would rather have Cade is SGA is about to be maxed out and Cade would be on a rookie deal for a few years. Neither team is ready to win now and why pay max money to just make the playoffs/play-in? Tough call either way because if Cade is a bust you have egg on your face.

[Ron Swanson]

Isn't SGA on the upper end of what you hope Cade can be? Like, maybe Cade's ceiling is a bit higher, but man, SGA is really good.

I'm just not keen on trading out if I'm sitting in this draft with a Top-4 pick. I believe Woj when he says he thinks there's 4 guys in this draft (Cunningham, Suggs, Mobley, Green) that'd go #1 overall in a lot of other years. Maybe I'm just overrating this class like 2014, but the timeline of a guy like SGA (23 years old and due a max extension ASAP) also doesn't align as well if I'm a team like the Pistons or Rockets, who have a long rebuild ahead of them. I'd rather take the 19-20 year old dude and know that I have a 7-8 year window to build with, as opposed to a 4-5 year window.

[machu46]

Isn't SGA on the upper end of what you hope Cade can be? Like, maybe Cade's ceiling is a bit higher, but man, SGA is really good.

I wouldn't say he's on the upper end. These teams are hoping Cade becomes an MVP caliber player. A Shai-level player is probably what they would consider a more reasonable outcome for Cade to be, but these teams get Cade on a rookie salary deal for 4 years plus locking him in for a long-term deal after that rather than paying Shai the max and having 4 years to try to build a contender around him. If there's a 3 team deal that allows Detroit to get Shai and the #4 pick, then yeah, I think that's something they'd have to seriously consider. But I don't blame them for rejecting Shai + #6 in a draft that arguably only has 4 players you're really excited about.

[Plossum]

Shae is very good but not sure he’s a franchise level talent. I’d probably take my chances with Cade or Mobley at #1.

[MiltownHawkeye]

If Shae hasn't shown enough by 22 to make him untradable for anyone besides an established superstar then I'm not sure what you could possibly do. I know the Family Guy "a boat is a boat but a mystery box could be anything" thing is usually really reductive when it comes to prospect value but it seems like it fits here. I feel like if Shai was picked where he should have (e.g. top 5) rather than late lotto the idea of trading him for Cade wouldn't even be entertained.

I get that you need to pay Shai soon but if Cade is the player you think he can be then you're going to have to pay him too, not sure what kicking the can down the road really accomplished.

[machu46]

If Shae hasn't shown enough by 22 to make him untradable for anyone besides an established superstar then I'm not sure what you could possibly do. I know the Family Guy "a boat is a boat but a mystery box could be anything" thing is usually really reductive when it comes to prospect value but it seems like it fits here. I feel like if Shai was picked where he should have (e.g. top 5) rather than late lotto the idea of trading him for Cade wouldn't even be entertained.

I get that you need to pay Shai soon but if Cade is the player you think he can be then you're going to have to pay him too, not sure what kicking the can down the road really accomplished.

It's pretty obvious isn't it? It buys you roughly an extra 4 years of player control for a team that likely isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Edit: Obviously whether or not that's the right call is still debatable. I don't necessarily think Cade is the slam dunk that some others do, but he seems like a high floor, pretty high ceiling prospect and I think teams probably view him as likely to at least be as good as Shai with the potential to be better.

Having said all that, I think it's kinda silly that OKC might be trying to move SGA too. Even if he isn't the franchise centerpiece you're looking for, he's still obviously very good and very young and it's not like you're spending money on anyone else worthwhile anyways. Might as well just lock SGA up and see what you can build with all the picks you have.

[Ayt]

SGA had an absurd age 22 season. He has a great approach to the game and can still get much, much better. I'm really surprised OKC would be willing to trade him, even for the #1 overall pick. I wonder if they have long term concerns about his foot injury.

[LuessiT]

I mean I doubt the transpired offer is true, but seems like OKC are looking to tank. In that case, getting someone who is worse right now definately has appeal. Also maybe Cade fits OKC's timeline better than SGA. Let's say SGA would sign the 5y max extension (which we don't know if he actually would), that means OKC is on a 6 year clock. Some of the picks they acquired are further than that down the road or at the tail end of that. Seems like Presti is trying to wait till he has at least 2 sure things.

[midranger]

I just hope OKC doesn’t make the Ainge mistake of not pushing chips in at some point. Having 2 dozen mid-late 1sts/2nds doesn’t accomplish much unless you consolidate them. Ideally, they just move a bunch of the to get a top player to go with Shai.

[LuessiT]

I just hope OKC doesn’t make the Ainge mistake of not pushing chips in at some point. Having 2 dozen mid-late 1sts/2nds doesn’t accomplish much unless you consolidate them. Ideally, they just move a bunch of the to get a top player to go with Shai.

I don't think just getting a second player with Shai is enough. Unless the second player is clearly better than SGA (and good luck getting that player), that's not a championship team. As a small market team, you need 3 stars/2 superstars and lots of luck.

[MiltownHawkeye]

If Shae hasn't shown enough by 22 to make him untradable for anyone besides an established superstar then I'm not sure what you could possibly do. I know the Family Guy "a boat is a boat but a mystery box could be anything" thing is usually really reductive when it comes to prospect value but it seems like it fits here. I feel like if Shai was picked where he should have (e.g. top 5) rather than late lotto the idea of trading him for Cade wouldn't even be entertained.

I get that you need to pay Shai soon but if Cade is the player you think he can be then you're going to have to pay him too, not sure what kicking the can down the road really accomplished.

It's pretty obvious isn't it? It buys you roughly an extra 4 years of player control for a team that likely isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

They more or less control Shai for the next 6 years, trading for someone who might not even be as good because you can have them for 9 years seems like it's losing the plot a little. I don't buy for a second that OKC is so far off from competing that a 22-year old future star doesn't fit their window.

[midranger]

I just hope OKC doesn’t make the Ainge mistake of not pushing chips in at some point. Having 2 dozen mid-late 1sts/2nds doesn’t accomplish much unless you consolidate them. Ideally, they just move a bunch of the to get a top player to go with Shai.

I don't think just getting a second player with Shai is enough. Unless the second player is clearly better than SGA (and good luck getting that player), that's not a championship team. As a small market team, you need 3 stars/2 superstars and lots of luck.

I mean, they’ll still have cap space and draft assets to trade for a star down the road if things are going well.

As stated, Shai is crazy good. And crazy efficient at a young age, with minimal help. If he builds on it for two more years, he could easily be in that top-10 in the nba talk.

Cade May be better. I don’t know. He has some athletic limitations that impact his ultimate ceiling IMO.

[LuessiT]

I just hope OKC doesn’t make the Ainge mistake of not pushing chips in at some point. Having 2 dozen mid-late 1sts/2nds doesn’t accomplish much unless you consolidate them. Ideally, they just move a bunch of the to get a top player to go with Shai.

I don't think just getting a second player with Shai is enough. Unless the second player is clearly better than SGA (and good luck getting that player), that's not a championship team. As a small market team, you need 3 stars/2 superstars and lots of luck.

I mean, they’ll still have cap space and draft assets to trade for a star down the road if things are going well.

As stated, Shai is crazy good. And crazy efficient at a young age, with minimal help. If he builds on it for two more years, he could easily be in that top-10 in the nba talk.

Cade May be better. I don’t know. He has some athletic limitations that impact his ultimate ceiling IMO.

I mean what's the end goal here? Be a contending team? Yes you can go now. If you want a championship, you better collect every asset possible. Just look at the 76ers. They had two guys and tons of assets. And now they have just their two guys, one of them they're about to oust.
Other than SGA, there's no reason to rush the OKC rebuild. Taking a small L on a trade to keep collecting high quality assets via bottoming out may actually be a whise choice.

[midranger]

But SGA IS already high quality asset.

#6 + a couple other picks gets you into the top 4 to get another MAYBE high quality asset.

Cade is MAYBE a high quality asset, or not.

Philly would definitely trade every single pick they collected through tanking for nearly a decade outside of Embiid for SGA.

You hold on to these guys, IMO. I mean compare SGA age 22 season to Dwayne Wade’s age 22 or 23 season. The dude is really good. The goal is to get good players.

[midranger]

To add, no one thinks OKC will contend next year no matter what they do. 3 years from now feels reasonable if SGA takes another step, they nail the draft this year (say they trade up a couple spots to get Mobley) and make 1 smart trade move.

[machu46]

To add, no one thinks OKC will contend next year no matter what they do. 3 years from now feels reasonable if SGA takes another step, they nail the draft this year (say they trade up a couple spots to get Mobley) and make 1 smart trade move.

I would definitely be far more interested in trying to trade up to #3 or #4 to pair someone with SGA than trading SGA, #6, and other picks to try to get Cade. At the same time, I don't think SGA & #6 is enough for Cade from Detroit's perspective.

[LuessiT]

But SGA IS already high quality asset.

#6 + a couple other picks gets you into the top 4 to get another MAYBE high quality asset.

Cade is MAYBE a high quality asset, or not.

Philly would definitely trade every single pick they collected through tanking for nearly a decade outside of Embiid for SGA.

You hold on to these guys, IMO. I mean compare SGA age 22 season to Dwayne Wade’s age 22 or 23 season. The dude is really good. The goal is to get good players.

I don't disagree. I wouldn't do said trade myself, just trying to find reasons why Presti would (that said I'm not sure the report is correct). I also like SGA more than most. Imo he's at least on a compareable level to the average #1 pick. I'm not going to go into Cade as I haven't done much research for this draft, but if Presti thinks he's a can't miss prospect (and maybe he doesn't like SGA as much) I could see it.
Also the bolded part is not true. That includes Ben Simmons, the assets they used for Fultz, the assets they used for Buttler, etc..

To add, no one thinks OKC will contend next year no matter what they do. 3 years from now feels reasonable if SGA takes another step, they nail the draft this year (say they trade up a couple spots to get Mobley) and make 1 smart trade move.

There's a big difference between being the 8th worst team and the worst team in terms of lottery odds.