Discussion: Should the Bucks trade Larry Sanders?

[InsideOut]

I know people that buy a stock at $30 then don't sell it at $20 because why would they want to sell when it is low. Then it drops to $10 and they don't want to sell because it is low compared to when it was at $20.

Well, that is the other part of this. If you assume Larry's play last year was the product of a contract drive, PED's, etc and he in reality turns into Bobby Simmons, then yes, that stock can go down further.

Interestingly, no one has bit yet with ideas of who might want him that has assets. I think there still would be a very healthy market for him.

This is where the GM earns his money. He has to figure out where Larry goes from here. Get it wrong like Hammond usually does and we could end up with another blown asset. Either way if I'm a GM I'm on the phone at least looking at my options.

[raferfenix]

I don't want to dump Sanders. But I also don't think his value has taken nearly as big of a hit as others here think it has.

Haven't seen one scenario discussed aside from Asik, which obviously would not be a rebuilding move.

Let's say Kohl is (finally) persuaded to rebuild -- then we'd absolutely be open to trading Sanders / Ersan / OJ / anyone who helps us win this year (other than Giannis) for picks and young players with potential.

[marques-8]

Don't trade Sanders untill the BC crowds drop to under 3,000 people in the stands. (thats probally next week!)

[aboveAverage]

Obviously for the right package, yes. But to trade him just because of this incident? **** no. I don't give a crap how many bottles he smashed on people's heads. He's one of our best young talents. There's no way I give up on him because of one incident. That's so Herb Kohl. I'm sure Herb is thinking about it though. Can't have anyone too "thug" on his precious hard-working honest Bucks.

[humanrefutation]

What possible benefit can come to this team from trading Sanders right now?

Is Larry impeding us from being a contender? No.
Is Larry wildly overpaid when looking at his talent and ability? No.

I also don't agree his value is rock bottom right now. I think some here are overestimating the impact of the bar fight - it hasn't been a recurring issue with him, and he isn't the first player who's had off-court issues and still been an impact player.

At this point, the only reason I'd trade Larry is if we got back an similarly situated talent on a similar deal, or if we got a top-5 pick. And by that standard, I'd trade anyone on this roster for that.

Also - the season's only been a little more than a month long. I'd find it laughable if we traded him based on a bad month, while overlooking his development over the last two seasons.

[aboveAverage]

Also, Gery is full of crap. He has vendettas against certain players/GMs/coaches. His word is worth absolutely nothing. He's an idiot.

[Nebula1]

I know people that buy a stock at $30 then don't sell it at $20 because why would they want to sell when it is low. Then it drops to $10 and they don't want to sell because it is low compared to when it was at $20.

I get people saying why sell low on Larry...my question is how do you know this is low compared to next year at this time? I'll also point out posters like to rip the Bucks for never selling high on a player. The Bucks instead wait until the players value drops to even lower levels. How do you know selling Larry now isn't selling high and waiting would be just another case of the Bucks holding onto a player way to long?

If you think Larry will clean up his act and play at a high level you keep him. If you think he'll be way too inconsistent and he'll always have behavioral issues then you move him. Time will tell. Just don’t assume selling now is selling low.

Yes, the rule on stocks is to sell dogs immediately and buy on the way up. Buy what you know and know what you own.

However, I don't think an incident off the floor actually matters much to Larry's "stock" since production is on the floor. If he comes back and stinks it up, it would justify overall concerns about the direction of the player.

And as you illustrate, if he returns and plays well, those concerns will fade quickly.

[raferfenix]

Here are some of the best 2014 draft picks that might be available, per:

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/ ... s/detailed

2014 first round draft pick from Brooklyn: Atlanta has the right to swap its 2014 1st round pick for Brooklyn's 2014 1st round pick [Atlanta-Brooklyn, 7/11/2012]; Brooklyn will convey the less favorable of these two picks to Boston (see Brooklyn Debits)

2014 first round draft pick from Detroit: Detroit's 1st round pick to Charlotte protected for selection(s) 1-8 in 2014 or 1 in 2015 or unprotected in 2016 [Charlotte-Detroit, 6/26/2012]

2014 first round draft pick from New York: New York's 2014 1st round pick to Denver [Denver-Minnesota-New York, 2/22/2011]; Denver may convey this pick to Orlando, as Denver will convey the less favorable of its 2014 1st round pick and New York's 2014 1st round pick to Orlando [Denver-Minnesota-New York, 2/22/2011 and then Denver-L.A. Lakers-Orlando-Philadelphia, 8/10/2012]

2014 first round draft pick from New Orleans: New Orleans' 1st round pick to Philadelphia protected for selections 1-5 in 2014, 1-5 in 2015, 1-5 in 2016, 1-5 in 2017, 1-5 in 2018 or 1-5 in 2019; if New Orleans has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Philadelphia by 2019, then New Orleans will instead convey its 2019 2nd round pick and 2020 2nd round pick to Philadelphia [New Orleans-Philadelphia, 7/12/2013]

2014 first round draft pick from Minnesota: Minnesota's 1st round pick to Phoenix protected for selections 1-13 in 2014, 1-12 in 2015 or 1-12 in 2016; if Minnesota has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Phoenix by 2016, then Minnesota will instead convey its 2016 2nd round pick and 2017 2nd round pick to Phoenix [Minnesota-New Orleans-Phoenix, 7/27/2012]

[Nebula1]

I don't want to dump Sanders. But I also don't think his value has taken nearly as big of a hit as others here think it has.

Haven't seen one scenario discussed aside from Asik, which obviously would not be a rebuilding move.

Let's say Kohl is (finally) persuaded to rebuild -- then we'd absolutely be open to trading Sanders / Ersan / OJ / anyone who helps us win this year (other than Giannis) for picks and young players with potential.

Asik could easily be a rebuilding move. He's not that great and the Bucks could easily lose games with him.

Asik + youth could work just fine for the Bucks and not hurt tanking efforts more than simply keeping Sanders.

[whatthe_buck!?]

If the team is smart, they rebuild. That means a number of low contract guys the next three years. So even if Larry doesn't return to form, his salary will help to meet the league required minimum payroll.

I would not trade him.

Now that said, figure out a way to get into the top ten of this draft via a Larry trade (even with Ersan)? Then yes, let's figure that one out.

This is the key for me. If a Larry trade isn't bringing back a high draft pick, preferably this year but I'd take an unprotected future pick as well, then I have no interest in trading him whatsoever. However, if that trade is available, even if it takes Ersan AND Sanders together in the trade to get another top ten pick in this draft then I'm definitely pulling the trigger.

Great point about needing to stay at least at the salary floor while we rebuild too, we have Sanders locked up for 5 years and if we have to spend that money anyway spending it on Larry while we hope he rehabilitates his trade value seems like a great way to spend it. The only downside of keeping him is the risk that his value bottoms out to the point that u can't even trade him for an expiring and his contract becomes and albatross, but that seems to me to be exceedingly unlikely...

[Wooderson]

I don't think there are many teams that are looking for high impact centers. Most of the teams in win-now mode already have a center in place. It's part of the reason the Rockets are finding Asik so difficult to move for a nice return. The Suns were incredibly smart to get rid of Gortat early in the season as the Wiz were one of the few teams in need.

OKC
Atlanta
Portland

Those are about the only teams I'm seeing that have some assets and are pushing to win-now. Of those 3, Portland is the only one I could really see being interested. McCollum plus other small incentive might be enough.

OKC has Adams and probably won't give up cheaper impact guys like Lamb/Jackson.

ATL could possibly be interested if they think they can get away with playing Milsap heavy minutes at SF (doubtful). If the Bucks could somehow land the worse of ATL/BKNs draft pick (if they're even allowed to trade that pick) for Sanders, I'd be hard pressed not to pull the trigger.

All this being said, Sanders is so difficult to deal that I don't see it happening. Plus if a deal does go down it will undoubtedly be for a win-now player, in which case I'd almost certainly rather keep Sanders, especially if Hammond is the one making the deal.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

ersan and sanders for asik and one of their young guys. pull the trigger.

then move asik at your leisure. his play and contract doesnt have the same ability to decline precipitously over the next year. further.... if the rockets are asking for 2 number ones for him and his value turned into even just one with an actual trade then that would be good value coming back for our guys.

if we wait to long it is entirely possible.... i believe likely..... that teams wont even answer the phone if were calling about a sanders deal. as has been stated.... i think his trade value peaked last year before his deal got signed.

[BuckFan25226]

Larry has a lot to prove, and I want him to do it in Milwaukee. I still think he can be an important piece for our current "rebuild" situation, whether it's intentional or not.

Also, I find a Sanders/Henson/Giannis frontcourt extremely intriguing for the future depending on how Henson and Giannis progress.

[crkone]

If they are confident that Henson is or will be soon a better offensive version of Sanders, just trade him. They obviously can't play together offensively as neither can really hit a jumper.

[Lippo]

Get Philly involved

Milwaukee Out: Sanders/Ersan/2nd
Milwaukee In: Motiejunas/Jones/Noel

Houston Out: Asik/Motiejunas/Jones/2nd
Houston In: Sanders/Ersan

Philly Out: Noel
Phily In: Asik/2nd/2nd

[emunney]

Get Philly involved

Milwaukee Out: Sanders/Ersan/2nd
Milwaukee In: Motiejunas/Jones/Noel

Houston Out: Asik/Motiejunas/Jones/2nd
Houston In: Sanders/Ersan

Philly Out: Noel
Phily In: Asik/2nd/2nd

Neither Philly nor Houston can do that deal under the CBA. And no way Philly would do it. I'd be thrilled, of course, because we make out like sexy bandits.

ETA: nm, Philly could do it.

[Lippo]

Get Philly involved

Milwaukee Out: Sanders/Ersan/2nd
Milwaukee In: Motiejunas/Jones/Noel

Houston Out: Asik/Motiejunas/Jones/2nd
Houston In: Sanders/Ersan

Philly Out: Noel
Phily In: Asik/2nd/2nd

Neither Philly nor Houston can do that deal under the CBA. And no way Philly would do it. I'd be thrilled, of course, because we make out like sexy bandits.

Sorry, trade checker approved it, that about the limit of my resources or knowledge.

and.. maybe the Sixers pull a Bucks and aim for the playoffs... Asik would make them 6-8 seed for sure,
Noel is out all of 2013-2014 which would be perfect for the Bucks tank.

[Chuck Diesel]

Not optimistic about Larry's mental issues but willing to wait and see.

[Wooderson]

Yeah Philly isn't giving up Noel for 1.5 years of Asik. Not a chance.

Not many teams need and want a high impact center. Win-now teams have theirs in place for the most part. Portland is probably the best bet, but right now they're scorching hot.

[tedbrogen]

What if Sanders returns and starts hurting the tank? The Bucks are actually looking at a good shot at #1.

I'd consider moving Sanders to preserve the opportunity at #1. For fair value, of course.

If his defense starts to hurt the tank, then a smart move would be to offset that and give him extra touches on offense. Run ISOs for him, feed him in the post, so forth. If he somehow becomes efficient offensively, well then you have a top 5 center on your hands.

Also, the injury and long layoff means he will be rusty when he returns which will show itself by picking up quick fouls, so it will take a while upon his return for him to be effective and change games defensively.