Ersan Trade Ideas - Think hard guys (and Sanders)

[bizarro]

From my math the Nuggets could actually take Sanders back with their TPE, but I doubt they are willing to go into the tax this year, so the deal could literally be McGee and the pick for Mayo and Sanders and a 2nd. With Sanders coming in through the TPE.

Knicks pick is unprotected...right?

I think everyone here would be at least interested in discussing this type of deal.

I think it'd be a pretty ideal trade. The Bucks may not get someone who impacts the game like Sanders with that Knicks pick, but they already have a potential replacement at center on the roster in Henson. You get another chance to add a piece that better fits with a Henson/Giannis core going forward.

This is the type of trade you have to be willing to make in a complete rebuild. Though, if I'm the Bucks I would obviously push them on one of Arthur or Fournier. With, what we're hoping are two top five picks...in this draft...well, let's just say wouldn't be drafting Rubio and Flynn.

I also do this move as a test, fort he remainder of the season, with Brandon Knight as my primary 2. This is the experiment I want to test with Brandon Knight. Move Wolters in as my starter - he gets valuable experience and I simply hope he grows some and, in the very least, starts hitting his jumpers at any kind of clip. I also start experimenting with Giannis offensively.

In an upcoming 3-team Ersan trade, I'm also ensuring I get some type of young piece(s) to now address depth concerns at the 4/5 or 1/2. But, I don't think this is absolutely essential. I worry more about continuing to add to the flexibility of the roster moving into this draft.

[paulpressey25]

I don't think the Nuggets would trade that Knicks pick as unprotected. Seems like too much a risk.

That said, if I were the Bucks, and this was at all possible, this would be another example of a deal where I'd overpay and take a step backward, with the shot at two steps forward.

The Nuggets poster wants basically Mayo/Sanders for McGee/pick. Now McGee sucks and his contract is terrible. He's owed $11mm next year and $12mm the year after. However, we'd shed $44mm of Larry salary and $16mm of Mayo salary.

But the big thing would be that pick. That pick could be anywhere from 1-3 (remote) or 10-16 (likely). Given the depth in this draft, I'd think hard about pulling the trigger. Although unlikely, the payoff could be significant.

[Lippo]

Target : Bad team that wants to be good .. The Knicks.. they don't have their 1st.

OJ Mayo
Ersan Ilyasova
ZaZa Puchulia
Gary Neal

for

Amare Stoudemire (Schwartzkoff)
Iman Shumpert
Tim Hardaway Jr.

-Dumps all of our long term contracts.
-Amare expires by the time we need cash, no good max players out there next year anyways.
-Gets an elite defender at the 2 and another propsect at the wing.
-Can still move Ridnour and Udoh for a mid to late 1st
-Amare might have huge value as an expiring next year.

Knight/Nate
Shumpert/Giannis/Knight
Middleton/Giannis/Hardaway Jr
Henson/Middleton/Giannis
Sanders/Amare/Raduljica

Leave a nice space at the 4 for Parker or Randle, Henson becomes the backup at 4/5 and get lots of minutes due to Larry's green light to hack.

Ideal world using nbadraft.net
1(2) Jabari Parker
1(22) Andrew Harrison
2(32) Isiah Austin
2(38) Aaron Harrison

Harrison/Knight/Nate
Giannis/Shumpert/Harrison
Middleton/Hardaway/Parker
Parker/Henson/Austin
Sanders/Henson/Raduljica

+ room for a max in 2015

[machu46]

Target : Bad team that wants to be good .. The Knicks.. they don't have their 1st.

OJ Mayo
Ersan Ilyasova
ZaZa Puchulia
Gary Neal

for

Amare Stoudemire (Schwartzkoff)
Iman Shumpert
Tim Hardaway Jr.

-Dumps all of our long term contracts.
-Amare expires by the time we need cash, no good max players out there next year anyways.
-Gets an elite defender at the 2 and another propsect at the wing.
-Can still move Ridnour and Udoh for a mid to late 1st
-Amare might have huge value as an expiring next year.

Knight/Nate
Shumpert/Giannis/Knight
Middleton/Giannis/Hardaway Jr
Henson/Middleton/Giannis
Sanders/Amare/Raduljica

Leave a nice space at the 4 for Parker or Randle, Henson becomes the backup at 4/5 and get lots of minutes due to Larry's green light to hack.

Ideal world using nbadraft.net
1(2) Jabari Parker
1(22) Andrew Harrison
2(32) Isiah Austin
2(38) Aaron Harrison

Harrison/Knight/Nate
Giannis/Shumpert/Harrison
Middleton/Hardaway/Parker
Parker/Henson/Austin
Sanders/Henson/Raduljica

+ room for a max in 2015

I don't know if the Knicks go for Ilyasova when they already have Barg, but I've been saying for awhile now that I'd happily take Amare back if we got a nice prospect or something as well.

[Chapter29]

I fear there will be many sad people around here at the end of the season. This team is not a 20% win rate team. We are closer to probably a 40% win rate team. My guess is that this team will start to win games like these just often enough to keep us out of the top 5 in the draft.

Trading Ersan and Sanders would make sure we stayed in that top 5, that much is probably certain.

we may be a 40% win rate team against the other 6-7 bottomfeeders
20% against any team not trying to tank. playing all out for the playoffs.

then against teams with actual winning records?
i will be surprised if we pick up a win. but i will give us 1-2 just to be realistic

add all that up and were a bottom 3 team easy. this 40% overall win thing youre talking about is the bobcats and the pistons. that aint us by a mile.
.

So what will our winning percentage be in your opinion when we have Sanders back? It wont be 18-20% like it is right now. Bottom line is that we are not a 20% win rate team with Sanders and some relative health.

So my point still stands that I am worried that if we don't make specific tank moves, we have a good probability of landing outside of the top 5 in this draft.

[The Rebel]

I don't think the Nuggets would trade that Knicks pick as unprotected. Seems like too much a risk.

That said, if I were the Bucks, and this was at all possible, this would be another example of a deal where I'd overpay and take a step backward, with the shot at two steps forward.

Here is the thing, maybe it is the fact that one of my 1st memories as a child is from a Nuggets game and being such I lived through the 14 years of hell trying to rebuild from 1989-2003. Maybe as a long time basketball fan I understand what happens to lotto picks who go to teams where they are fighting with good established players to get minutes (think Derick Williams), or I understand the odds of the lottery both to get the top pick and to get a top player, but I do not think the Nuggets should go that route.

Truth of the matter is that even in a top 7 player deep draft it is likely only 1-2 of them is a franchise guy, 1-2 an all star type, and 2 of them are busts. Meaning out of the 7 you will likely find 3 all star or better guys, 2 outright busts, and 2 somewhere in between. the later in the lotto you go the worse your odds get. Also in all their years in the lotto the Nuggets have never once moved up, and never had a draft pick above 3rd (they got Mcdyess who was the 2nd overall pick in a draft day trade)

Also if you watch young players when they come in the league most take at least 3 years to fully develop, and that is with playing time. With this draft being so deep on forwards and PGs, the Nuggets strongest & deepest areas, how much playing time do they get? How long does it take them to develop? How long do they get before they are traded? Also in the next 3 years the Nuggets will have to resign Lawson, gallo, and many of the other players, or trade them for value and rebuild, plus Lawson and company will be well into their prime by that point. That is if things go right.

Now the reason I would prefer the Nuggets do a deal like Sanders for the pick, is that Sanders age fits with the rest of the core, he is signed for 4 more years after this one, giving the Nuggets basically 3 years with the guys they have signed in order to try to get to contender, and if Shaw is successful with his development of Faried, and can help Sanders somewhat like he helped Hibbert, then the Nuggets have the potential to have a starting lineup with at least 4 borderline all star talent players, and still have the money for a good bench.

The Bucks on the other hand have a major problem, they are lacking talent at PG, and could use another forward or two (maybe they get Smart to be their SG of the future) plus they need time to develop their youth already on the team and getting added to the team. Adding 2 top lotto picks, knowing the odds are only one is an all star talent and the other may only be a starter level guy, is not a terrible deal, especially since they will have the minutes available to allow those guys to develop.

The Nuggets poster wants basically Mayo/Sanders for McGee/pick. Now McGee sucks and his contract is terrible. He's owed $11mm next year and $12mm the year after. However, we'd shed $44mm of Larry salary and $16mm of Mayo salary.

But the big thing would be that pick. That pick could be anywhere from 1-3 (remote) or 10-16 (likely). Given the depth in this draft, I'd think hard about pulling the trigger. Although unlikely, the payoff could be significant.

I will dispute that McGee sucks, he was very productive last year working with a decent coach and has worked with Hakeem that last 2 years. This year he started the season with a fracture in his leg which has kept him out. He is not Sanders, and he is overpaid, but he is a decent shot blocking big, which it looks like could be useful for the Bucks if Sanders is gone.

I personally have been saying for a long time that I think the Knicks pick ends up 7-10, as I do not see them beating even 2 of the 10 teams trying to make the playoffs in the east, and with likely records figured in for the western conference I have thought they may end up right around that area. That was before this last week, now I am not so sure that pick does not end up top 5. That is the risk the team trading for the pick would have to take, but I think it makes sense for both teams, especially when Henson is waiting in the wings to be the Bucks long term answer at center.

[jr lucosa]

The Knicks are bad but I don't believe they are going to be bottom 5 bad all year unless Melo is out for a long period of time, he will keep them in the playoff hunt by himself if he stays healthy. Even with their slow start they are only 3.5 games out of 8th and without owning that pick they have no incentive to try and tank. We would be selling really low on Larry trading him for what will very likely be a middle of the 1st round pick and an overpaid C.

[HurricaneKid]

You guys are out of your minds if you think we can get an unprotected #1 from the team with the 3rd worst record in the league a qtr of the season in for any package surrounding Ers, Sanders and OJ.

[Ron Swanson]

Again, the problem I have with dealing Larry is that you'd be dealing him at his lowest value in over a year. How is that smart asset management? What is the risk in letting him play until at least the trade deadline?

It is all dependent on the potential return we could get for him, but sorry, I don't think a pick that could "possibly" be in the 12-15 range (but more likely in the 15-20 range) as the centerpiece/prize of a deal involving Larry is fair value. Nor do I think that Denver even does that deal. Move Ersan for a late 1st and call it a day.

I'd rather not completely give up on an elite interior defender after two and a half games of unproductive play followed by a fluke injury. Larry is very much a part of the future core/rebuild, so why bail at the time when GMs will be throwing low ball offers at us?

[The Rebel]

The Knicks are bad but I don't believe they are going to be bottom 5 bad all year unless Melo is out for a long period of time, he will keep them in the playoff hunt by himself if he stays healthy. Even with their slow start they are only 3.5 games out of 8th and without owning that pick they have no incentive to try and tank. We would be selling really low on Larry trading him for what will very likely be a middle of the 1st round pick and an overpaid C.

Melo is playing as hard as he can, he cannot do it alone, and on that team he basically is. KMart & World Peace are done, Amare is on severe minutes restrictions, JR Smith has not been the player he was in Denver since he left, and is struggling with a knee injury, Felton is pulling his taking every other year off crap and is now injured again, Chandler is out with no expected return date announced, Shumpert is mopping around waiting to be traded, Bargnani is playing just like he always has no defense or rebounding and inefficient scoring. and their coach is fighting to keep his job.

Fact is that team lost their efficient 3 point shooting, they lost their vocal leaders in Kidd and Wallace, and they have no way to change things as their only trade pieces in Shumpert and Hardaway JR are not worth a whole lot, and Shumpert is losing value daily with his terrible play.

To put things into perspective, in 2008 it took 50 wins to make the playoffs in the western conference, it also took 37 wins in the eastern conference, to get to 37 wins the Knicks would have to finish the season with a 52% winning percentage, for a team that is currently at a 25% winning percentage I would say the chances are very slim, even in a weak division.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I fear there will be many sad people around here at the end of the season. This team is not a 20% win rate team. We are closer to probably a 40% win rate team. My guess is that this team will start to win games like these just often enough to keep us out of the top 5 in the draft.

Trading Ersan and Sanders would make sure we stayed in that top 5, that much is probably certain.

we may be a 40% win rate team against the other 6-7 bottomfeeders
20% against any team not trying to tank. playing all out for the playoffs.

then against teams with actual winning records?
i will be surprised if we pick up a win. but i will give us 1-2 just to be realistic

add all that up and were a bottom 3 team easy. this 40% overall win thing youre talking about is the bobcats and the pistons. that aint us by a mile.
.

So what will our winning percentage be in your opinion when we have Sanders back? It wont be 18-20% like it is right now. Bottom line is that we are not a 20% win rate team with Sanders and some relative health.

So my point still stands that I am worried that if we don't make specific tank moves, we have a good probability of landing outside of the top 5 in this draft.

once we get 20-25 games under .500 and any hope of making the playoffs is gone then we will get even worse. right now we suck but theres a ton of effort and weve picked up a couple games on basically that alone. once that effort falls off deeper into the season...... the coaching staff will quit pushing as hard.....the offense will get quicker and more selfish..... and the defense will get lazy.

larry sanders returning to this team is not going to make a difference. in fact my personal belief is his playing presence and attitude on a team playing for nothing will worsen the result.... not improve it. his minutes will come in direct competition to henson. and hes been by far our best player so far. that doesnt work in our favor either.

if you simply run the numbers it will be very difficult to win much more than 20 games this season. we have the worst talent compilation in the league.....and if the team embraces the tank it could be even worse than that.

[paulpressey25]

To put things into perspective, in 2008 it took 50 wins to make the playoffs in the western conference, it also took 37 wins in the eastern conference, to get to 37 wins the Knicks would have to finish the season with a 52% winning percentage, for a team that is currently at a 25% winning percentage I would say the chances are very slim, even in a weak division.

You are doing a nice job selling.

This is why this is a fascinating trade idea. The Knicks right now are a huge mess. They have zero assets to trade, in order to get better. If that pick goes to top 3, in this draft? Now you are talking about the Bucks maybe getting Randle and Exum.

The other part as we've discussed is what do you do with Henson. I don't think he's physical enough to be a dominant defensive center. That said, he's sort of turning into Marcus Camby before our eyes. That might be enough.

So, while we would be selling "low" on Larry, the possible payoff of a top three pick in THIS draft, is the single greatest asset we'd ever get for any of our players in trade.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Again, the problem I have with dealing Larry is that you'd be dealing him at his lowest value in over a year. How is that smart asset management? What is the risk in letting him play until at least the trade deadline?

the risk is that his value gets worse... that he perhaps becomes completely immoveable for even salary relief.

dealing him now offloads any risk associated with him and gives a tanking team, going nowhere, more playing time for others and capspace to reboot unhindered.

the idea that we could get denver/ny's pick in return for him and absorbing mcgees contract sort of proves this. altho its an absurd proposition.....it shows the difference between what the perception sanders is now, and what his value could be in a year(mcgee).

[Matches Malone]

I'd trade a combination of Sanders for the Denver pick, easily. A shot having two top 5 picks is very intriguing. Move Henson to the five and have your choice of 2 great prospects to go along with Antetokounmpo and Middleton.

Exum or Smart
Middleton or Wiggins
Antetokounmpo or Parker
Julius Randle maybe?
Henson

[whatthe_buck!?]

The teams that make some kind of sense for an Ersan trade to me are the Thunder, the Warriors, the Spurs, the Clippers, the Rockets and the Lakers. Of those teams, I think the Rockets and Lakers are the best fits. Since the Rockets trade scenarios have been played out I'll do a Laker proposal (I also think the team most willing to give up their pick out of those teams would be the lakers honestly). The trade:

Lakers trade: Steve Nash, 2014 1st top 6 protected, rolls over if it ends up a top 6 pick

Bucks trade: Ersanator

Simple. Good for both teams. Respective values of outgoing trade pieces match up just about perfectly IMO. And for those who may worry Nash would help win games, I would argue that there's just as good of a chance he helps the tank and that if he plays a lot of minutes he will probably get injured. Nice expiring contract to go into the offseason with as well.

Also, imo it's a huge boon for the development of the young guys on the time to be around a true pro with the work ethic and unselfishness of Nash. I really love this trade needless to say.

[drew881]

I don't think the Nuggets would trade that Knicks pick as unprotected. Seems like too much a risk.

That said, if I were the Bucks, and this was at all possible, this would be another example of a deal where I'd overpay and take a step backward, with the shot at two steps forward.

Here is the thing, maybe it is the fact that one of my 1st memories as a child is from a Nuggets game and being such I lived through the 14 years of hell trying to rebuild from 1989-2003. Maybe as a long time basketball fan I understand what happens to lotto picks who go to teams where they are fighting with good established players to get minutes (think Derick Williams), or I understand the odds of the lottery both to get the top pick and to get a top player, but I do not think the Nuggets should go that route.

Truth of the matter is that even in a top 7 player deep draft it is likely only 1-2 of them is a franchise guy, 1-2 an all star type, and 2 of them are busts. Meaning out of the 7 you will likely find 3 all star or better guys, 2 outright busts, and 2 somewhere in between. the later in the lotto you go the worse your odds get. Also in all their years in the lotto the Nuggets have never once moved up, and never had a draft pick above 3rd (they got Mcdyess who was the 2nd overall pick in a draft day trade)

Also if you watch young players when they come in the league most take at least 3 years to fully develop, and that is with playing time. With this draft being so deep on forwards and PGs, the Nuggets strongest & deepest areas, how much playing time do they get? How long does it take them to develop? How long do they get before they are traded? Also in the next 3 years the Nuggets will have to resign Lawson, gallo, and many of the other players, or trade them for value and rebuild, plus Lawson and company will be well into their prime by that point. That is if things go right.

Now the reason I would prefer the Nuggets do a deal like Sanders for the pick, is that Sanders age fits with the rest of the core, he is signed for 4 more years after this one, giving the Nuggets basically 3 years with the guys they have signed in order to try to get to contender, and if Shaw is successful with his development of Faried, and can help Sanders somewhat like he helped Hibbert, then the Nuggets have the potential to have a starting lineup with at least 4 borderline all star talent players, and still have the money for a good bench.

The Bucks on the other hand have a major problem, they are lacking talent at PG, and could use another forward or two (maybe they get Smart to be their SG of the future) plus they need time to develop their youth already on the team and getting added to the team. Adding 2 top lotto picks, knowing the odds are only one is an all star talent and the other may only be a starter level guy, is not a terrible deal, especially since they will have the minutes available to allow those guys to develop.

The Nuggets poster wants basically Mayo/Sanders for McGee/pick. Now McGee sucks and his contract is terrible. He's owed $11mm next year and $12mm the year after. However, we'd shed $44mm of Larry salary and $16mm of Mayo salary.

But the big thing would be that pick. That pick could be anywhere from 1-3 (remote) or 10-16 (likely). Given the depth in this draft, I'd think hard about pulling the trigger. Although unlikely, the payoff could be significant.

I will dispute that McGee sucks, he was very productive last year working with a decent coach and has worked with Hakeem that last 2 years. This year he started the season with a fracture in his leg which has kept him out. He is not Sanders, and he is overpaid, but he is a decent shot blocking big, which it looks like could be useful for the Bucks if Sanders is gone.

I personally have been saying for a long time that I think the Knicks pick ends up 7-10, as I do not see them beating even 2 of the 10 teams trying to make the playoffs in the east, and with likely records figured in for the western conference I have thought they may end up right around that area. That was before this last week, now I am not so sure that pick does not end up top 5. That is the risk the team trading for the pick would have to take, but I think it makes sense for both teams, especially when Henson is waiting in the wings to be the Bucks long term answer at center.

Do you want a job for the Milwaukee Bucks? Herb Kohl would love to have you onboard for a win now push.

[whatthe_buck!?]

The Bucks are terrible trade partners for the Nugs, sorry to be a buzzkill but its true...

[The Rebel]

I don't think the Nuggets would trade that Knicks pick as unprotected. Seems like too much a risk.

That said, if I were the Bucks, and this was at all possible, this would be another example of a deal where I'd overpay and take a step backward, with the shot at two steps forward.

Here is the thing, maybe it is the fact that one of my 1st memories as a child is from a Nuggets game and being such I lived through the 14 years of hell trying to rebuild from 1989-2003. Maybe as a long time basketball fan I understand what happens to lotto picks who go to teams where they are fighting with good established players to get minutes (think Derick Williams), or I understand the odds of the lottery both to get the top pick and to get a top player, but I do not think the Nuggets should go that route.

Truth of the matter is that even in a top 7 player deep draft it is likely only 1-2 of them is a franchise guy, 1-2 an all star type, and 2 of them are busts. Meaning out of the 7 you will likely find 3 all star or better guys, 2 outright busts, and 2 somewhere in between. the later in the lotto you go the worse your odds get. Also in all their years in the lotto the Nuggets have never once moved up, and never had a draft pick above 3rd (they got Mcdyess who was the 2nd overall pick in a draft day trade)

Also if you watch young players when they come in the league most take at least 3 years to fully develop, and that is with playing time. With this draft being so deep on forwards and PGs, the Nuggets strongest & deepest areas, how much playing time do they get? How long does it take them to develop? How long do they get before they are traded? Also in the next 3 years the Nuggets will have to resign Lawson, gallo, and many of the other players, or trade them for value and rebuild, plus Lawson and company will be well into their prime by that point. That is if things go right.

Now the reason I would prefer the Nuggets do a deal like Sanders for the pick, is that Sanders age fits with the rest of the core, he is signed for 4 more years after this one, giving the Nuggets basically 3 years with the guys they have signed in order to try to get to contender, and if Shaw is successful with his development of Faried, and can help Sanders somewhat like he helped Hibbert, then the Nuggets have the potential to have a starting lineup with at least 4 borderline all star talent players, and still have the money for a good bench.

The Bucks on the other hand have a major problem, they are lacking talent at PG, and could use another forward or two (maybe they get Smart to be their SG of the future) plus they need time to develop their youth already on the team and getting added to the team. Adding 2 top lotto picks, knowing the odds are only one is an all star talent and the other may only be a starter level guy, is not a terrible deal, especially since they will have the minutes available to allow those guys to develop.

The Nuggets poster wants basically Mayo/Sanders for McGee/pick. Now McGee sucks and his contract is terrible. He's owed $11mm next year and $12mm the year after. However, we'd shed $44mm of Larry salary and $16mm of Mayo salary.

But the big thing would be that pick. That pick could be anywhere from 1-3 (remote) or 10-16 (likely). Given the depth in this draft, I'd think hard about pulling the trigger. Although unlikely, the payoff could be significant.

I will dispute that McGee sucks, he was very productive last year working with a decent coach and has worked with Hakeem that last 2 years. This year he started the season with a fracture in his leg which has kept him out. He is not Sanders, and he is overpaid, but he is a decent shot blocking big, which it looks like could be useful for the Bucks if Sanders is gone.

I personally have been saying for a long time that I think the Knicks pick ends up 7-10, as I do not see them beating even 2 of the 10 teams trying to make the playoffs in the east, and with likely records figured in for the western conference I have thought they may end up right around that area. That was before this last week, now I am not so sure that pick does not end up top 5. That is the risk the team trading for the pick would have to take, but I think it makes sense for both teams, especially when Henson is waiting in the wings to be the Bucks long term answer at center.

Do you want a job for the Milwaukee Bucks? Herb Kohl would love to have you onboard for a win now push.

I think I would be fired in about 2 days, if I lasted that long. As I have said the Nuggets and Bucks are in completely different situations, the Nuggets won 57 games last year, and right now are on pace to win 49 games despite missing 2 of their top 6 players for every game this year, including the last 2 where they had 3 starters out of the lineup. They just need a couple of different pieces for success in the playoffs.

The Bucks have a problem, they do not have any good developed talent outside of Sanders and Illysova, the rest are either to young and developing, or just are not close. I can understand why Bucks fans would like to trade those 2 and start over, in my situation I would be the same way.

[Ron Swanson]

Again, the problem I have with dealing Larry is that you'd be dealing him at his lowest value in over a year. How is that smart asset management? What is the risk in letting him play until at least the trade deadline?

the risk is that his value gets worse... that he perhaps becomes completely immoveable for even salary relief.

dealing him now offloads any risk associated with him and gives a tanking team, going nowhere, more playing time for others and capspace to reboot unhindered.

the idea that we could get denver/ny's pick in return for him and absorbing mcgees contract sort of proves this. altho its an absurd proposition.....it shows the difference between what the perception sanders is now, and what his value could be in a year(mcgee).

If you're thoroughly convinced that Larry becomes another JaVale McGee, then of course you try and unload him for picks. But where is the evidence for that? What are the actual odds that his value decreases to basically zero?

Larry's full season of elite interior defense is more than anything that JaVale has ever done to deserve his contract. Comparing McGee to Larry is like comparing Deandre Jordan to Tyson Chandler. I don't see how you just "lose" that skill due to a thumb injury. I'd be fine with trading him if some team offered a nice package of either picks and/or prospects. We can disagree on what Larry's value actually is, but there isn't any debate that his value is at it's lowest point in the past year and a half.

So to me, basically, it comes down to how much you think Larry hurts the tank. Realistically, how many more wins are we talking about? Our defense has been surprisingly solid recently, it's the lack of offensive production that has been the problem and will continue to be. Coupled with the fact that Larry is still a ways away from returning, add in the several week timetable that it takes for him to get back in the groove of things, and I think people are underestimating how bad we will continue to be.

The odds of Larry being a more valuable asset 2 months from now far outweigh the odds of that NY pick being top 10 IMO, and it's not even close.

[The Rebel]

The Bucks are terrible trade partners for the Nugs, sorry to be a buzzkill but its true...

Based on?

The Bucks have 2 good young centers, the Nuggets need a young center to go with their core.

The Bucks have nobody from the 1-3 positions that is ready to be more then an average starter at best, the Nuggets have 4 pgs, and 2 starting quality Sfs.

The Bucks need to rebuild, the Nuggets have possibly the most valuable pick that could possibly be on the market.

To trade Sanders the Bucks need a team with a TPE over $9.4 million, cap space, or have to make a very large complicated deal to make it work.

The Nuggets have a TPE for 9.87 Million from the Igoudala deal.

The Nuggets despite east coast reporters saying otherwise have no intention of rebuilding and have a playoff team that has a couple of holes in the roster, the Bucks need to rebuild.

A deal between these 2 teams make plenty of sense to me.