ATL - New Lottery Rules Move to Owner Vote - pg59

Post #61 » by **Prez** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:11 pm

DingleJerry · Post #62 » by **DingleJerry** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:12 pm

I honestly think the supposed Bucks offer was better for Cavs this year to beat GSW than what they got back instead. They played this smart though and thinking big pic (since even with our trade it's almost impossible to beat GSW) and planning for years down the line and post LBJ by taking Zanic and the BKN pick instead.

Middleton is better than Crowder and a better shooter for spacing. IT technically is better than Brogdon, however Brogdon is better for what matters which is the matchup vs GSW. He's also a good shooter but less ball dominant which is good next to LBJ. MB, Mid, LBJ, Love, Thompson with JR, Shump off the bench has the wings/length to hang with GSW better than what they have now.

Overall I'd say the trade makes sense for both teams. Boston probably could've gotten PG or Butler cheaper, and after having those fall through they decided they needed to consolidate some assets and couldn't wait longer, I get it. They don't have to deal with IT contract situation and replace him with a full size version of himself who's only 25. Cle gets some win now pieces for this year and two longer term ones. I'd be trying to dangle IT for something that fits better now if I'm them though.

crkone · Post #63 » by **crkone** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:17 pm

Read on Twitter

JayMKE · Post #64 » by **JayMKE** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:19 pm

That offer is about what I'd expect, it definitely would be win now so I really don't care about the 1st but I am ready to ride with Mids and Brog.

I don't think this helps the Cavs win now

JimmyTheKid · Post #65 » by **JimmyTheKid** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:21 pm

emunney wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:
emunney wrote:Sounds like Boston wasn't bidding against themselves. Glad Ainge stepped up, also glad Horst is willing to get aggressive, although I don't particularly like the play.

jakecronus8 wrote:If we really offered that for Kyrie we're f*cked and this has Kidd's fingerprints all over it.

humanrefutation wrote:Man, that would have been the boldest trade that this team has made in years, IMO. That would have taken stones for Horst to pull that trigger.

Again, this will be fun to monitor going forward.

Do you think we're all the same person.

I don't. However I do have a pretty good idea that credit and blame will be doled out according to how people feel about Jason Kidd.

Profound23 · Post #66 » by **Profound23** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:22 pm

According to Marc J. Spears, the Cleveland Cavaliers' GM called the Golden State Warriors about Kyrie Irving for Klay Thompson.

Ron Swanson · Post #67 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:22 pm

I question how much "better" defensively the Cavs get here when they get a guy who's even a worse defender than Kyrie, and the one good defender they got in this deal plays the same position as Lebron.

worthlessBucks · Post #68 » by **worthlessBucks** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:23 pm

Would have been fine with a package that had combination of these parts: Brogdon, Jabari, First, and Thon/Wilson. Keeping MIddleton to go with Giannis and Kyrie would have been my goal.

emunney · Post #69 » by **emunney** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:24 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:
emunney wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:

Again, this will be fun to monitor going forward.

Do you think we're all the same person.

I don't. However I do have a pretty good idea that credit and blame will be doled out according to how people feel about Jason Kidd.

Part of Horst's job is to manage Kidd, particularly to the extent he tries to inject bad ideas into personnel discussions. Buck stops with Horst.

Post #70 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:25 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I question how much "better" defensively the Cavs get here when they get a guy who's even a worse defender than Kyrie, and the one good defender they got in this deal plays the same position as Lebron.

It's not like they can't easily play together at the 3 and 4.

buckboy · Post #71 » by **buckboy** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:27 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I question how much "better" defensively the Cavs get here when they get a guy who's even a worse defender than Kyrie, and the one good defender they got in this deal plays the same position as Lebron.

In the only series that matters this gives Cleveland someone to at least bother Durant and allows LeBron to guard Draymond. Neither Kyrie nor IT has any prayer of guarding either of GSW's guards so I think it helps Cleveland at least a little bit.

Ron Swanson · Post #72 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:28 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:I question how much "better" defensively the Cavs get here when they get a guy who's even a worse defender than Kyrie, and the one good defender they got in this deal plays the same position as Lebron.

It's not like they can't easily play together at the 3 and 4.

I'd actually agree with this, but if I'm the Cavs, I'm on the phone right now trying to move Love for another wing/guard, and Shumpert for a backup C. Fully embrace small-ball and move Lebron to PF where I think he's most effective in this day and age.

IT/insert 3&D SG/Crowder/Lebron/Thompson. If they really want a chance at beating GS, then that's your best bet.

FlagsFlyForever · Post #73 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:29 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
skones wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
Don't know why people think IT is gonna suddenly get worse, provided he's healthy. He's going from playing next to no one to playing next to LeBron and Love.

"Provided he's healthy" with the hip and overall wear and tear given his lack of size. I'd say that's a pretty big factor. His efficiency spike is reason for pause as well.

Is there a reason to believe his efficiency will go down now that he's playing next to LeBron and an elite floor spacer in Love?

I had the same concerns about Mirza and to a lesser degree, Tony Snell. IT's efficiency took a huge jump at an older age so I consider it more likely to be an outlier than his baseline performance. Plus you have the injury concerns and the fact that he'll be 29 in February for a player who relies on his speed and quickness.

ajb905 · Post #74 » by **ajb905** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:30 pm

No idea if trade offer is legit or not. But if I'm the Bucks I probably would squash news that tried to unsuccessfully trade Khash and Brogdon just for locker room sake. While players are professionals, hearing name in trade rumors (seemingly out of the blue), might not sit well. Though Kyrie is considered a big star so maybe they wouldn't be too upset.

GoldenAntlers · Post #75 » by **GoldenAntlers** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:35 pm

Bradley, Crowder, and IT were the reason I enjoyed watching the Celtics play basketball last year.

Post #76 » by **Prez** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:36 pm

Kyrie / Rozier / Larkin
Brown / Smart / Nader
Hayward / Tatum / Ojeleye
Morris / Theis / Yabusele
Horford / Baynes

I'm not seeing this ECF lock that many are hyping them up to be.

coolhandluke121 · Post #77 » by **coolhandluke121** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:37 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:If we really offered that for Kyrie we're f*cked and this has Kidd's fingerprints all over it.

I agree. You can't evaluate individual pg's on their ability to score anymore, because the no-hand-check rule and the way they call games makes it easier for them to score a lot. People act like it's a golden age for pg's, but it's all relative. The game has just evolved to feature them more, like qb's in the NFL. The worst qb's in the league have stats that would have been great 50 years ago, so it's all about era. If a pg plays terrible defense and doesn't facilitate well, then it doesn't matter if he's one of the best scorers in the league because he's not going to give you much of an advantage. In this day and age, pg's need to be judged by how whether they make the offense significantly better and whether they make the defense worse.

Bucks dodged a bullet here. I wouldn't be against trading Khris and Brogdon because Khris has the injury history and conditioning issues and Brogdon has already had bones fused in his foot, but I wouldn't trade them for Kyrie. I'd call the Cavs about that BK pick but it's hard to justify such a dramatic step backwards in Giannis's prime.

worthlessBucks · Post #78 » by **worthlessBucks** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:37 pm

ajb905 wrote:No idea if trade offer is legit or not. But if I'm the Bucks I probably would squash news that tried to unsuccessfully trade Khash and Brogdon just for locker room sake. While players are professionals, hearing name in trade rumors (seemingly out of the blue), might not sit well. Though Kyrie is considered a big star so maybe they wouldn't be too upset.

The good thing is you can just blame this on Horst and then fire Horst.

coolhandluke121 · Post #79 » by **coolhandluke121** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:39 pm

As for the trade, I understand it for both sides but I don't understand why Boston had to include Crowder. And I think the Nets are going to be terrible again, so that pick is very valuable. BK has no incentive to tank but that doesn't matter because they're almost as awful as a peak Sixers Process roster.a

ETA: I.T. is basically the offensive player Kyrie fans seem to think Kyrie is, but Kyrie is probably still improving and has a better contract situation. Ainge must have really thought Butler's wheels were about to fall off though because he's a much better player than either of them right now and they could have had him for less.

Ron Swanson · Post #80 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:49 pm

The Celtics weren't an ECF lock with IT/Crowder/Bradley either, so again, I'm not seeing what the downside is here. No move they could have made this offseason was going to get them a championship in the next 1-2 years. Surprised more people aren't commending Ainge for playing the long game here, while also getting two All-Star caliber players in their mid-20s.