PG Warriors - 10 Good Minutes, 38 Bad Minutes

[blazza18]

Warriors didn’t have Steph and still moved the ball all over the floor and created open shots. I don’t know how many times I watched Podz screen Giannis off ball to help open things up. It really is a culture thing there because their franchise guy bought in to that style of play and the rest followed. It’s something I wish Giannis learnt.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Again, two 35-year olds just kicked our asses up and down the court. Golden State looks like an actual contender after looking nowhere close the first 50-games of the season, and they were even missing their best player.....a 37 year old. If people still wanna think this is a "we're old" problem then I don't know what to tell you.

Kerr coached circles around Doc last night with *checks notes* Gary Payton II, Buddy Hield, and some dude named Quentin Post. Put those same three dudes on our roster and we can all but guarantee they'd be unusable bench fodder. Bringing in a bunch of young but largely worse players isn't gonna change anything until the proper infrastructure is in place. Start there.

i dont care how good a coach we get. what good is a coach if the star players and vets on the team are low iq and dont play particularily hard? how the **** is a coach supposed to work with that exactly? hell... these players are most likely to fire their own coach and have.....god forbid a coach get in guys faces and tell them to play hard defense and stop being stupid and taking bad shots and playing selfish head down me first basketball.

watch the tape of the good teams. that aint us. and it isnt really coaching either. me personally id HATE to coach this team. youd be talking to a wall

[German Athens]

when your stars coast night in and night out and simply cant elevate a team...ever....you got problems. they aint stars anymore. or at least the kind of stars that can win. who knew jimmy was still capable of toying with us for example. just crazy

Sure, but that’s not what we have either. Giannis has elevated the team plenty to where they are right now.

Even with a declining regular season impact, he’s still 3rd in LEBRON. If that’s not a star, I don’t know what is.

I know you’ve vacillated a fair bit with takes since Bud was canned, but I think one of your early impressions post Bud was that he made our improvement. I thinks that’s partly true.

For Bud it was never really about optimizing Giannis, he’s a singular talent and he’ll be dominant regardless of the coach, but it was very much about finding roles and homes for role players, and creating a system that they could thrive in. He absolutely excelled at that.

We’re seeing the same thing in Cleveland right now where the likes of Sam Merrill and Ty Jerome are having high impact seasons.


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[Profound23]

Missed this one, glad I did. Sounds like a disheartening loss. I am hoping to go 4-2 over the next six to feel better about losing to GS without Steph.

[German Athens]

We just needed to close out the third quarter better and I think we’re fine. If Doc rests Giannis earlier or if he digs deep and actually tried I think we’re fine. Instead it was laziness and mistakes and the games over because we give up a 0-16 run.

Yeah, we just needed a ~fine ~ game from one of Giannis or Dame, and we would’ve won. I think that’s the worst the two of them have played in one game the past two seasons.

It’s both incredibly frustrating, and probably reason to not take much from this game.


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[Ron Swanson]

Again, two 35-year olds just kicked our asses up and down the court. Golden State looks like an actual contender after looking nowhere close the first 50-games of the season, and they were even missing their best player.....a 37 year old. If people still wanna think this is a "we're old" problem then I don't know what to tell you.

Kerr coached circles around Doc last night with *checks notes* Gary Payton II, Buddy Hield, and some dude named Quentin Post. Put those same three dudes on our roster and we can all but guarantee they'd be unusable bench fodder. Bringing in a bunch of young but largely worse players isn't gonna change anything until the proper infrastructure is in place. Start there.

i dont care how good a coach we get. what good is a coach if the star players and vets on the team are low iq and dont play particularily hard? how the **** is a coach supposed to work with that exactly? hell... these players are most likely to fire their own coach and have.....god forbid a coach get in guys faces and tell them to play hard and stop being stupid and taking bad shots and playing selfishly.

watch the tape of the good teams. that aint us. and it isnt really coaching either.

It's like some of you guys literally just sleepwalked through the Kidd era. It was all just a magical coincidence that we had countless 55+ win seasons with this same "dumbass" superstar? Just a coincidence that even older, veteran players are more engaged when they have faith in the system/gameplan? The guy that just kicked our ass last night (Jimmy) was in Miami 2-months ago actively quitting on that team and jogging up the court. Now dude is buying into a role/system that suits this stage of his career to a tee.

It's years of neglecting the roster margins and taking the importance of coaching/culture for granted that have got us here. But placing the blame squarely on the Top-3 player in the world for not bringing it 100% every night just to squeak out 47-wins is certainly a hill to die on. He was dog **** tonight as was Dame and a slew of other guys, but good luck convincing any rational person that this city is ever gonna sniff another championship in the next few decades by trading him.

[emunney]

Guys. Doc is not great, agreed. Dame and Giannis is not as advertised, also mostly true. We don't have a wealth of young talent: sure.

This is still *mostly* about Khris. Whether you think he's cooked and the trade is fine or you think we got bad value, we do not have a 3rd guy anymore, and it's going to take either a lot of luck or a lot of skill -- maybe both -- to get one.

[BigO]

Selling your soul to the Devil certainly has consequences. But he's not governor yet, right? Edens needs to take the gloves off and right the ship.

It's convenient to blame everything on Haslam. But we have no clue who's running the show. If I had to guess Edens and Horst carry most of the responsibility here.

The single biggest problem the team has is Horst's inability to find young talent.

I'm all for replacing Horst, but with few draft choices and late round picks, do you really expect his successor to come up with young talent?

You can find examples of other teams finding someone, but they are the exceptions.

Take a look at the Celtics or the Cavs. Who in their core five guys did they get in the second round or off the scrap heap? They were gotten thru high relatively picks or big trades.

[BigO]

And of course just 13 points from your bench is about is pitiful as it can get.

And that's with having Prince and Kuzma as starters, two guys who shouldn't be starting on a championship team.

[Matches Malone]

Listening to Giannis in his post-game interview and he sounds frustrated with Doc and the offense as well. "I gotta be aggressive. I gotta F whatever everyone is talking about and just go downhill and be myself and enjoy the game again." Doc's got to go this offseason. If you bring him back, you're just wasting another prime Giannis year, and you probably have less than a handful of good ones left.

[German Athens]

Guys. Doc is not great, agreed. Dame and Giannis is not as advertised, also mostly true. We don't have a wealth of young talent: sure.

This is still *mostly* about Khris. Whether you think he's cooked and the trade is fine or you think we got bad value, we do not have a 3rd guy anymore, and it's going to take either a lot of luck or a lot of skill -- maybe both -- to get one.

Yeah, the warriors added a player to their top 3 at the deadline, and it completely changed their season.

It was all of one year ago that most on this board were marveling at how much better we play when Khris is in the game as some force multiplier. Teams pack the paint against Giannis, and throw multiple bodies on the perimeter against Dame. They make those two work for their points, and no one else really has the ability to reliably take advantage unless it’s a spot up 3 that was created from one of those two getting into the teeth of the defense.

I’d like to think you could do it with two guys, but then both of those guys would need to be able to break doubles whether through their own scoring or passing. I think we see that from Giannis, particularly when he’s patient and reading the defense, but I don’t think we’ve really seen it from Dame. Doubles pretty much completely take him out of the game.

[CharityStripe34]

The Dame trade was a no brainer and still is. Him and Giannis are still great building blocks but for a variety of reasons our GM has never put the right team around them.

Horst post-2021 has been mostly poo-poo. We hung on too long to the title roster. And when it came time to make the ballsy move of moving on from Bud and trading Jrue, he absolutely torpedoed the next coaching hire(s). I didn't see the game last night and it sounds like everyone played like ass, but you have a Top 2 player in his prime putting up MVP like numbers despite the head-coach trying to nuke spacing with some atrocious starting lineups. With Bobby's suspension and Sims' injury we can't even go small with Giannis at the 5 and both he and Brook will be toast by April playing 37-38 minutes a night.

[BigO]

Guys. Doc is not great, agreed. Dame and Giannis is not as advertised, also mostly true. We don't have a wealth of young talent: sure.

This is still *mostly* about Khris. Whether you think he's cooked and the trade is fine or you think we got bad value, we do not have a 3rd guy anymore, and it's going to take either a lot of luck or a lot of skill -- maybe both -- to get one.

Bingo! You win the prize for correct answer.

Posters seem to think that coaching is equal to talent in importance. It's not even close.

Khris was an elite talent, both in efficiency and maximizing the talents of his teammates. The team's numbers when he was on and off the court were night and day.

This doesnt mean coaching isnt important.

It means when you have a starting lineup of Prince and Kuzma and an aging center who can only play one type of defense, you are screwed.

It's why I would rather have ten minutes of KM on the floor than 35 minutes of Kyle Kuzma.

The loss of Khris took this team from contender to pretender.

[German Athens]

Rollins is going to be super important for this team moving forward. If any guy has potential to be a 3rd option on our squad, it’s him.

The problem is, by the time he reaches that, Dame probably won’t be on the team anymore to be that 2nd guy.

[Ron Swanson]

I couldn't be the only person that noticed, but on the broadcast Marques repeated at least 3-4 times during the first half something to the effect of "Steve Kerr's defensive gameplan working to perfection", and that basically summed up the game in a nutshell. Flash back to last season when Marques was doing the same thing before Griffin got fired, and it gets awfully tough to deny when even the announcers are pointing out stuff like this on the regular (whether it was his intention to call out the coaching staff or not).

[Siefer]

Guys. Doc is not great, agreed. Dame and Giannis is not as advertised, also mostly true. We don't have a wealth of young talent: sure.

This is still *mostly* about Khris. Whether you think he's cooked and the trade is fine or you think we got bad value, we do not have a 3rd guy anymore, and it's going to take either a lot of luck or a lot of skill -- maybe both -- to get one.

Before we traded Khris I thought our ceiling was a contender if we got a bunch of fortunate breaks - a lot of those being around health. But it was at the tippy-top of our ceiling. We didn't have margin for error, and that included needing Khris to be able to summon something close to the guy who balled out against the Pacers last playoffs.

That's why trading him (and a lottery ticket) for Kuzma is so maddening (I'm still mad). If you truly believe Khris is cooked, then it's not gonna work out, and you need to do something dramatic or call it. We did neither of those things, and instead just conceded to not being good enough.

[fan230]

I tried to stay optimistic but this is a second round ceiling team AT BEST.
Everything people warned us about Doc is correct (he was just leaving Dame and Giannis out there to have to go at the Warriors best defenders while Buddy and Podz got to stand around next to shooters at the three point line and the supersized lineup is getting exposed).
Everything Dame’s worst detractors here are saying about his D is spot on. He is incapable of watching his ball and his man at the same time.
Everything people say about Giannis not wanting to change his game even if it made the team better is true.
Brook is so close to totally cooked.
Kuz is very athletic but needs to be surrounded by smart players and the Bucks have very few of those.
Everyone else is just average rotational players who have good skills and faults. Doc manages to not emphasize their best abilities and not hide their faults.
I’m ready for a complete reset after they lose in six games in the first round. If that’s rebuilding around Giannis or he wants out, whatever. But let Brook, Trent, Prince, and Bobby walk. Trade Dame for picks and/or young players. Fire Doc and his 35 assistants.
If Giannis wants to play next season, roll with KPJ, AJG, Kuz, Giannis, Sims as the starters. Rollins, whoever you get for Dame, and whoever you can sign for the MLE as the bench.
If Giannis doesn’t want to play during a rebuild, trade him to OKC for their best picks and Chet and Williams after they flame out in the playoffs.

Zero chance this team wins a seven game series against a healthy Knicks, Cavs, or Celtics squad. This team’s window closed when they passed on Atkinson twice.

The fundamental mistake made by Horst was to impulsively fire Bud especially without having a replacement coach in mind. Then they had the circus of coach candidates. The Bucks’ first preference was Nurse. (I disliked that as he tends to drive his veterans to exhaustion, and that would not be good for an aging team) ; much more importantly I had the impression that Giannis didn’t like Nurse following the 2019 season encounters with the Raptors. Sure enough GA badly wanted to avoid Nurse. That led him to zero in on Griffin giving the excuse that it would be nice to get an ex player as coach. Atkinson most didn’t even talk much about probably coz he was from the Pop tree like Bud. And we had fired Bud impulsively without knowing how likely we were to get a good replacement.

Ultimately the Bud firing has been followed by the complete dismantling of much of the good things and the good team spirits that he had built.

[Siefer]

That we traded the only adult in the room on offense for a doof isn't great, but it's being exacerbated dramatically by our insistence on running such a plodding, ISO-heavy scheme. We've gone from 8th to 20th on assisted baskets this year.

[Baddy Chuck]

Last season through the coaching change there was a lot "hiccups" that were attributed by Doc to not having his system in place, players available or whatever. I'd kill to go back to that time. The longer Doc has had to get his stamp on things the worse it has become.

This team is just broken. From Giannis on down it seems like nobody knows what their role is and everyone is looking to someone else for answers. New guys (Kuzma/KPJ) were brought in with shot in the arm success but are finding themselves not finding a real role, the old new toy guys who were relied upon early (Ajax/Rollins/AJ) are finding themselves on the outside looking in or just straight up left on the corner, when Bobby was playing he never really seemed to find his spot that he previously filled, Dame and Giannis are sleepwalking their way to some of their statistical best years but can't find a way to coexist and parlay it to any consistent offensive cohesion. I guess Brook and Prince are finding their roles pretty comfortable but lord knows they probably shouldn't be in those roles. One guy who was pretty awesome in his role got scapegoated and shipped out for some flexibility, we'll see where that lands.

I think the roster has needed an overhaul especially since the Dame trade and we don't really have a complete team that is fool proof for a coach to limp his way to success with but I think the way Doc is managing what he's been given (and probably asked for) has been absolutely terrible.

Loading up another bullet in the chamber, when the smoke settles on whatever this season is I'm dreading the thought that Doc is moving to a POBO roll.

[fan230]

Guys. Doc is not great, agreed. Dame and Giannis is not as advertised, also mostly true. We don't have a wealth of young talent: sure.

This is still *mostly* about Khris. Whether you think he's cooked and the trade is fine or you think we got bad value, we do not have a 3rd guy anymore, and it's going to take either a lot of luck or a lot of skill -- maybe both -- to get one.

Khris for Kuzma destroyed our offense. Kuz is being left wide open by teams coz he cannot make open 3s. 5?players guarding 4 players.

Miss Khris’ super level understanding with Giannis and his passing ability even while he was recovering from injuries.