Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[blazza18]

I pretty much see it as the posters disagreeing that Tobes can be an 18 PPG player are pretty much disagreeing because he was a Bucks player and why have hope for someone cause its a deadbeat franchise that they don't even bother watching. While the posters that have actually watched Tobes play in limited minutes see exactly what writers and bloggers have been saying about him since we drafted him. He's gifted offensively and is 20 years old.

A young talented offensive player that we gave away for a rental.


Good job, good effort.

[paul]

Grendon, I think what it comes down to is this: Are u disturbed that the Bucks traded Tobias Harris at 20 years of age for a role player?.

For I think the 30th time on this thread, yes.

I hated Hammond in the first month of his tenure here. I'm the biggest pro-tank guy on here.

You can think this and still think Harris turns out to be a dime a dozen player that this board overrated the piss out of.

The consencus and cirlce jerking about Harris being a guarnteed 18 PPG game scorer because he's putting up numbers in YMCA caliber games is LOLOLOLOLOL. And like with Ramon by the time it's apparent that everyone was wrong we'll be on to the next one and no one will acknowledge anything. But the otherside always gets their I Told You So's in right away like when a player puts up numbers in a late February 20 point blowout loss between two teams trying to lose.

Such is life on the REALGM Bucks board. Where is Bdub when you need him...

Speak for yourself, I don't feel any differently now than I did the moment Harris was traded, guarantee you Ayt doesn't either, and again I won't feel any differently about him if he goes scoreless in his next 3 games either. He won't, just btw.

As a more general comment I'd say it's possible to make your point without going out of your way to be a jerk, particularly when completely unprovoked...

[Wooderson]

By the way, that Sessions thread is being casually ignored here by quite a few.

If you take that single occurrence into consideration then you should also heavily weight the fact that Sanders could barely find the court last year with Drew freaking Gooden in front of him. Makes sense to think that Harris barely getting minutes this year should be no indication of how good he was actually was (in practice or in games).

Also Sessions was a few years older and never showed close the natural scoring ability that Harris did.

He showed other PG skills that everyone loved. If he isn't showing the promise Sessions did and everyone wanted to pay Sessions 9, what are you ready to go on Harris...12 or 13/year?

DING DING DING - and here it is. Harris is only 20 years old and the team had 3 more years to watch him improve and then make a decision like that. Preferably with more than 40+ games of 10 minutes to judge him on. He would also have been a RFA.

[whatthe_buck!?]

It could easily be another decade before the Bucks draft another player with the natural scoring ability that Tobias has.

The last young player we had with his type of scoring ability was Ray Allen.

Please be serious.

Dispute the opinion if u like, I do think its fair to say that a lot of people on this board recognized early on what a natural scorer Harris was considering he came into the league at 18 (Eighteen!). I know one thing, I would love to read that list of Bucks young players since Ray so I could judge for myself...

[paul]

I pretty much see it as the posters disagreeing that Tobes can be an 18 PPG player are pretty much disagreeing because he was a Bucks player and why have hope for someone cause its a deadbeat franchise that they don't even bother watching. While the posters that have actually watched Tobes play in limited minutes see exactly what writers and bloggers have been saying about him since we drafted him. He's gifted offensively and is 20 years old.

A young talented offensive player that we gave away for a rental.


Good job, good effort.

Regardless of how individuals feel about him the entire board should be foaming at the mouth about this trade.

[Wooderson]

Offical Tobias Harris Whiners Thread

page 40

Tell Kohl I say hi.

I just wanted to point out that it's funny you should say this, because people used to say the same thing about europa

HAH. I do recall those days. GOS makes more sense as Kohl himself, until I remember that Kohl is 130 years old and not likely to know what a computer is.

[mojosodope]

DING DING DING - and here it is. Harris is only 20 years old and the team had 3 more years to watch him improve and then make a decision like that. Preferably with more than 40+ games of 10 minutes to judge him on. He would also have been a RFA.

[/quote]

There were too many negative variables for Harris to have been successful here. Bonehead coaches, bonehead managment, bonehead ownership, bonehead backcourt.

I say fairly confidently that we should just be happy with our JJ rental because as long as things are the way they are here we werent going to utilize Tobes like he could have been....It was simply the wrong system for him

[Wooderson]

DING DING DING - and here it is. Harris is only 20 years old and the team had 3 more years to watch him improve and then make a decision like that. Preferably with more than 40+ games of 10 minutes to judge him on. He would also have been a RFA.

There were too many negative variables for Harris to have been successful here. Bonehead coaches, bonehead managment, bonehead ownership, bonehead backcourt.

I say fairly confidently that we should just be happy with our JJ rental because as long as things are the way they are here we werent going to utilize Tobes like he could have been....It was simply the wrong system for him

The Bucks sacrificing another asset only to miss the playoffs and get the 9th seed again would be pretty hilarious. So I guess there's that.

[Scoops]

completely unprovoked...

Just to reiterate, if you think Tobias isn't capable of an efficient 18+ PPG in the next year or two, you are clueless when it comes to evaluating offensive talent. That may bother you. Have a nice day.

While the posters that have actually watched Tobes play

etc.

[ackypoo]

[Turk Nowitzki]

Tobes gonna Tobes

Hammond gonna Hammond

[step3profit]

I think we can all say Boylan/Skiles should have given Tobias *a couple* 30 minute games a month to see what there was to see.

[InsideOut]

It doesn't matter how good Harris ends up being. That isn't the point to any of this. If he ends up good or bad is irrelevant in why this trade was so stupid.

What matters is that if you are a team stuck in decades of mediocrity, when you are a team that isn't winning anything soon anyway, when you are a team in dire need of great young talents...why do you trade a 20yr old guy with any potential for a a 28yr old career 9/2/2 guy that can walk in 30 games?

What is the upside of the JJ trade? You know he isn't going to be an all-star. You know he isn't this great core piece that can break out. The odds are he's going to be what has been which is a below average starting SG or a 6th man off the bench guy. He isn't going to win you a title this year or the next. I mean how many of these guys does Hammond need to bring in to see they don't move the needle over the long haul.

With that being the case why would you trade a 20yr old that has shown flashes for JJ? Harris could break out and end up being an above average starter. He has the potential to be better than JJ ever will be. And if he isn't then what did you lose by not getting JJ? It's all about risk vs. reward.

When you are a mediocre team that is drafting 15ish, can't sign a great FA and don't have the assets to trade for a star then why are you giving up potential for another mediocre player? How does adding another mediocre player to a mediocre team at the expense of potential lead to anything other than more mediocrity?

Anyone that is a fan of trading 20yr old potential for 28yr old mediocrity deserves Hammond as your GM. Anyone, please explain why the reward of getting JJ is worth the risk of Harris getting good and JJ leaving after 30 games? If we’re a finals contender needing a veteran off the bench then okay I get it but we’re a mediocre team devoid of talent that just traded for more mediocrity.

[Baddy Chuck]

I think we can all say Boylan/Skiles should have given Tobias *a couple* 30 minute games a month to see what there was to see.

Funny thing is, when they were going trade Ramon and Alexander after SKiles completely benched them, they gave them a few minutes a game before the deadline to see what they had and decided not to trade them . Funny how this franchise does everything ass backwards.

[Siefer]

Watch him play. The numbers aren't an illusion; Harris is a natural on the offensive end, and is already skilled beyond his years in the post. This trade is going to be more and more devastating as time goes by.

[Wooderson]

I see 200+ pages in this threads future. Hello 2016, hope it's brighter than 2012-2013.

[paul]

It doesn't matter how good Harris ends up being. That isn't the point to any of this. If he ends up good or bad is irrelevant in why this trade was so stupid.

What matters is that if you are a team stuck in decades of mediocrity, when you are a team that isn't winning anything soon anyway, when you are a team in dire need of great young talents...why do you trade a 20yr old guy with any potential for a a 28yr old career 9/2/2 guy that can walk in 30 games?

What is the upside of the JJ trade? You know he isn't going to be an all-star. You know he isn't this great core piece that can break out. The odds are he's going to be what has been which is a below average starting SG or a 6th man off the bench guy. He isn't going to win you a title this year or the next. I mean how many of these guys does Hammond need to bring in to see they don't move the needle over the long haul.

With that being the case why would you trade a 20yr old that has shown flashes for JJ? Harris could break out and end up being an above average starter. He has the potential to be better than JJ ever will be. And if he isn't then what did you lose by not getting JJ? It's all about risk vs. reward.

When you are a mediocre team that is drafting 15ish, can't sign a great FA and don't have the assets to trade for a star then why are you giving up potential for another mediocre player? How does adding another mediocre player to a mediocre team at the expense of potential lead to anything other than more mediocrity?

Anyone that is a fan of trading 20yr old potential for 28yr old mediocrity deserves Hammond as your GM. Anyone, please explain why the reward of getting JJ is worth the risk of Harris getting good and JJ leaving after 30 games? If we’re a finals contender needing a veteran off the bench then okay I get it but we’re a mediocre team devoid of talent that just traded for more mediocrity.

This is, of course, 100% correct.

Regardless of how individuals feel about him the entire board should be foaming at the mouth about this trade.

[Turk Nowitzki]

It doesn't matter how good Harris ends up being. That isn't the point to any of this. If he ends up good or bad is irrelevant in why this trade was so stupid.

What matters is that if you are a team stuck in decades of mediocrity, when you are a team that isn't winning anything soon anyway, when you are a team in dire need of great young talents...why do you trade a 20yr old guy with any potential for a a 28yr old career 9/2/2 guy that can walk in 30 games?

What is the upside of the JJ trade? You know he isn't going to be an all-star. You know he isn't this great core piece that can break out. The odds are he's going to be what has been which is a below average starting SG or a 6th man off the bench guy. He isn't going to win you a title this year or the next. I mean how many of these guys does Hammond need to bring in to see they don't move the needle over the long haul.

With that being the case why would you trade a 20yr old that has shown flashes for JJ? Harris could break out and end up being an above average starter. He has the potential to be better than JJ ever will be. And if he isn't then what did you lose by not getting JJ? It's all about risk vs. reward.

When you are a mediocre team that is drafting 15ish, can't sign a great FA and don't have the assets to trade for a star then why are you giving up potential for another mediocre player? How does adding another mediocre player to a mediocre team at the expense of potential lead to anything other than more mediocrity?

Anyone that is a fan of trading 20yr old potential for 28yr old mediocrity deserves Hammond as your GM. Anyone, please explain why the reward of getting JJ is worth the risk of Harris getting good and JJ leaving after 30 games? If we’re a finals contender needing a veteran off the bench then okay I get it but we’re a mediocre team devoid of talent that just traded for more mediocrity.

Can we just sticky this post at the top of the board and lock this thread now?

[Scoops]

It doesn't matter how good Harris ends up being.

Well it does when that's what's being argued.

EVERYONE knows that from a big picture perspective that this trade was awful.

EVERYONE knows that the front office is incompetent.

EVERYONE knows that playing for the 8th seed sucks.

Let's keep making these points though!

[ackypoo]

Can we just sticky this post at the top of the board and lock this thread now?

no. need daily updates.

and since todays game hasnt been posted yet heres a reminder of yesterday.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go29JPJNbrs[/youtube]