2017 NBA DRAFT Part 3

Frank Nova · Post #621 » by **Frank Nova** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:27 pm

What makes Markkanen such a better prospect than Hartenstein? What am I missing here?

M-C-G · Post #622 » by **M-C-G** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:30 pm

yoshii8 wrote:I would be very disappointed if we drafted Ike. He doesn't seem like he does anything special, but I guess those guys know more than I do.

I think that is part of what makes him special, is all the non special stuff he does. It is why guys like Biyombo and Tristan Thompson got big contracts and why guys like ZaZa and Baynes are still in the league. But when I watched his form on that workout video, it looked pretty good. If you can find a Biyombo or TT that can shoot? That is a hell of a player with the 17th pick.

I also think having a lob threat, energy, a physical presence would just be so refreshing. I see him as the Bizarro Henson

For those that didn't catch his interview...I assumed his shot would be really ugly but found this very encouraging

Watch on YouTube

M-C-G · Post #623 » by **M-C-G** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:32 pm

weezybaby856 wrote:What makes Markkanen such a better prospect than Hartenstein? What am I missing here?

I'd start by going here and looking at their shot charts. Spoiler alert, one has lots of green and one has lots of red. I like Hartenstein though.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

machu46 · Post #624 » by **machu46** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:35 pm

weezybaby856 wrote:What makes Markkanen such a better prospect than Hartenstein? What am I missing here?

Markkanen shot the 3 ball roughly 15% better than Hartenstein. Markkanen is probably the best shooter in the entire draft whereas Hartenstein has occasionally made a jumper here and there.

Ron Swanson · Post #625 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:41 pm

machu46 wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:What makes Markkanen such a better prospect than Hartenstein? What am I missing here?

Markkanen shot the 3 ball roughly 15% better than Hartenstein. Markkanen is probably the best shooter in the entire draft whereas Hartenstein has occasionally made a jumper here and there.

Yeah, I thought very early on (3-4 months ago) that the gap between Markkanen and Hartenstein wasn't that big if at all. But it's become pretty clear that he's a much better prospect in pretty much all areas (shooting, athleticism, skill-level). Think Hartenstein is more Mo Speights/Donatas Montejunas at this point.

freewhitemoon · Post #626 » by **freewhitemoon** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:44 pm

M-C-G wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:What makes Markkanen such a better prospect than Hartenstein? What am I missing here?

I'd start by going here and looking at their shot charts. Spoiler alert, one has lots of green and one has lots of red. I like Hartenstein though.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

machu46 · Post #627 » by **machu46** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:53 pm

freewhitemoon wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:What makes Markkanen such a better prospect than Hartenstein? What am I missing here?

I'd start by going here and looking at their shot charts. Spoiler alert, one has lots of green and one has lots of red. I like Hartenstein though.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Amazing find haha.

Ron Swanson · Post #628 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 4:57 pm

The funny thing is that you literally couldn't find two more opposite players than Jason Smith and Serge Ibaka.

Ringer FTW.

Garden Of Edens · Post #629 » by **Garden Of Edens** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 5:05 pm

If the Suns draft a PG at 4, I'd offer Henson and the 17th pick for Bledsoe. He could be the scoring/shot creating point guard we need

skones · Post #630 » by **skones** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 5:35 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
machu46 wrote:
weezybaby856 wrote:What makes Markkanen such a better prospect than Hartenstein? What am I missing here?

Markkanen shot the 3 ball roughly 15% better than Hartenstein. Markkanen is probably the best shooter in the entire draft whereas Hartenstein has occasionally made a jumper here and there.

Yeah, I thought very early on (3-4 months ago) that the gap between Markkanen and Hartenstein wasn't that big if at all. But it's become pretty clear that he's a much better prospect in pretty much all areas (shooting, athleticism, skill-level). Think Hartenstein is more Mo Speights/Donatas Montejunas at this point.

I could see Motiejunas, but Speights seems way off. He's a scorer first, scorer second, scorer third. What makes me high on Hartenstein is his budding IQ.

Does he struggle with TO's? Absolutely, his decision making can be very poor at times. With that being said, he's consistently demonstrated good vision. In my mind, the poor decisions can be corrected with seasoning and experience and the gap between his smart decisions and his poor ones widens. He's also a very good rebounder posting good per 40 numbers on the glass in Lithuanian play this past season and he's 19 year old. That would differentiate him from Motiejunas in my mind as well.

When it comes down to it, the vision and rebounding require a feel and awareness on the court. For a guy like him, who moves his feet extremely well, I see a good chance that he becomes a pretty damn good defender as those things develop further.

Bucksfan28 · Post #631 » by **Bucksfan28** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 5:55 pm

Ike or Ferguson are the only guys I'd be intrigued by at 17 right now.

I think we're going to just miss out on some real quality in the late lotto.

Matches Malone · Post #632 » by **Matches Malone** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 6:01 pm

Garden Of Edens wrote:If the Suns draft a PG at 4, I'd offer Henson and the 17th pick for Bledsoe. He could be the scoring/shot creating point guard we need

Would that be enough to get Bledsoe?

DingleJerry · Post #633 » by **DingleJerry** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 6:05 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Garden Of Edens wrote:If the Suns draft a PG at 4, I'd offer Henson and the 17th pick for Bledsoe. He could be the scoring/shot creating point guard we need

Would that be enough to get Bledsoe?

No way it would be enough. Either we'd have to eat some money somehow by bringing back Chandler or Knight. Or give them more, maybe a 2019 protected pick. maybe Brogdon. No way they give him up for one mid first pick, they have no use for henson with the young bigs they drafted, Chandler, Len (though I don't know his current contract situation). They'd actually probably prefer Mirza over Henson.

emunney · Post #634 » by **emunney** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 6:08 pm

Yeah, the thing with Hartenstein is that he's a really aggressive passer, which I like to see in a young player.

skones · Post #635 » by **skones** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 6:16 pm

emunney wrote:Yeah, the thing with Hartenstein is that he's a really aggressive passer, which I like to see in a young player.

Completely agree. If a guy is going to turn the ball over on the pass when he's young, I've got no problem with it if he's trying to do too much with the unselfish home run play. That's fixable.

Ron Swanson · Post #636 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 6:23 pm

I guess I don't really value passing ability for bigs that much unless he's a guy that you're gonna wanna have the ball in his hands a lot. If Hartenstein isn't a great shooter, then he loses 99% of the intrigue I have for him. I gotta be convinced that he can space the floor at a reasonable level (~35%), because I'm not convinced that he's gonna be a great rim-protector.

skones · Post #637 » by **skones** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 6:25 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:I guess I don't really value passing ability for bigs that much unless he's a guy that you're gonna wanna have the ball in his hands a lot. If Hartenstein isn't a great shooter, then he loses 99% of the intrigue I have for him. I gotta be convinced that he can space the floor at a reasonable level (~35%), because I'm not convinced that he's gonna be a great rim-protector.

It's not that he has passing ability per se. It's that he's able to see the floor. Whether he's got the ball in his hands or not, it's a good indicator of awareness of action on the floor.

Fotis St · Post #638 » by **Fotis St** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 9:54 pm

He did really well hitting those 3pts drill in LA

Josh Hart #17 ?

The "Vice President"

Watch on YouTube

Rockmaninoff · Post #639 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 9:58 pm

Jimmmycrackcorn wrote:
Rockmaninoff wrote:The only positive indicator Vaughn had was extreme youth. He was coming off an injury, tested average athletically, and wasn't efficiently productive as a freshmen.

The Vaughn in this draft is probably Ferguson.

He averaged over 22 points per-40 minutes at the age of 18, which is something only 29 players in the last 15 years of college basketball can boast, all but eight of whom ended up being NBA players. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rashad-Vaughn-71472/ ©DraftExpress

I look at percentiles for certain metrics that I use. These are what I had for Vaughn:

Usage: 90
Scoring: 43
Shooting: 83
Passing: 16
Possessions: 18
Defense: 81
Size: 23
Athleticism: 47
Age: 98

So, he graded as a small 2, average athletically, high usage but inefficient. His defense score was pretty good for a guard, and I think we've seen that a little bit.

Rockmaninoff · Post #640 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Tue Jun 6, 2017 10:05 pm

skones wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:I guess I don't really value passing ability for bigs that much unless he's a guy that you're gonna wanna have the ball in his hands a lot. If Hartenstein isn't a great shooter, then he loses 99% of the intrigue I have for him. I gotta be convinced that he can space the floor at a reasonable level (~35%), because I'm not convinced that he's gonna be a great rim-protector.

It's not that he has passing ability per se. It's that he's able to see the floor. Whether he's got the ball in his hands or not, it's a good indicator of awareness of action on the floor.

I think if an NBA team has a guy on the floor that can't pass and/or take care of the ball, it can really limit offensive potential.