Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[Ron Swanson]

"Gee I wonder why this could be the case?"

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01/lineups/2025#lineups-2-man

[Bernman]

"Gee I wonder why this could be the case?"

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01/lineups/2025#lineups-2-man

And "Gee I wonder why this could be the case?"

Here are the sole positive +/-'es:

Green/Portis - Green stays in front to not make Bobby rim protect as much

Ajax/Portis - Same as the 1st

(POA defending for the literal win)

Middleton/Portis - Khris, the floor general, won't pass to Bobby in the high post unless he has a mismatch

[BigO]

The idea of putting two man lineups up as any indication of a player's worth is beyond silly unless the league goes to two man lineups and even then it has holes.

According to the chart, any combo of Portis is bad except with KM and a few others. So if KM is on the court with BP, Green, Ajax and Giannis, that should be the best team in the league. Ranks as one of the best narrative driven stats of all time.

Luckily, Horst, Doc and Bud don't follow these stats. And really lucky that they didn't follow it in the game that decided the championship.

[Ron Swanson]

God forbid we have to constantly explain to you guys how lineup data and sample sizes work without having to entertain these meandering diatribes about how we're all just being mean and hate Bobby with this now mountain of evidence over the last season and a half that tells us he's a net drag on lineups no matter who he's playing with. Yes, we're gonna keep harping on the obvious weak points and flaws of this roster until they're fixed.

According to the chart, any combo of Portis is bad

Seriously, at what point does this stop being a coincidence to you guys?

[emunney]

The idea of putting two man lineups up as any indication of a player's worth is beyond silly unless the league goes to two man lineups and even then it has holes.

According to the chart, any combo of Portis is bad except with KM and a few others. So if KM is on the court with BP, Green, Ajax and Giannis, that should be the best team in the league. Ranks as one of the best narrative driven stats of all time.

Luckily, Horst, Doc and Bud don't follow these stats. And really lucky that they didn't follow it in the game that decided the championship.

We don't have any minutes with that lineup, sadly, but I would propose on theoretical grounds that that lineup actually would be fantastic. Lots of versatile defenders, lots of anticipatory defenders, relatively mobile bigs, two elite shooters, plenty of passing. The only flaw is that I'd like to have a guard who can really handle the ball but it would not be hard to scheme around that with Giannis bringing it up and getting right into a DHO or an inverted PnR.

[SupremeHustle]

We need our pick in '31 to draft Rashad Vaughn, Jr.

[Ron Swanson]

I've maintained that the best (re: only?) way to hide Bobby on defense is to play him as the sole big, surround him with shooters, and just run some zone. Brook/Bobby frontcourt is too slow, and the Giannis/Bobby frontcourt has been rough for years now because Giannis still wants to roam on defense, so it just results in a layup factory at the rim anyways with Bobby as a paint defender. Andre makes sense there but the Dame/Bobby pairing was still a positive last season likely because we just spaced everything out and tried to outscore people.

[MiltownMadness]

We need our pick in '31 to draft Rashad Vaughn, Jr.

Vaughn is still young

[ShootingtheJ]

I've maintained that the best (re: only?) way to hide Bobby on defense is to play him as the sole big, surround him with shooters, and just run some zone. Brook/Bobby frontcourt is too slow, and the Giannis/Bobby frontcourt has been rough for years now because Giannis still wants to roam on defense, so it just results in a layup factory at the rim anyways with Bobby as a paint defender. Andre makes sense there but the Dame/Bobby pairing was still a positive last season likely because we just spaced everything out and tried to outscore people.

We have proof that this works in last years playoffs, and we didn't even need to run zone.

[EasyE31]

Isn't the answer here mostly just that the Bucks need to play small against the Celtics? We already have a very mobile, switchable big on the roster - his name is Giannis.

The closing lineup against Boston needs to be Dame/AJ Green/Prince/Middleton/Giannis. That matches their shooting and gives us a defensive lineup that can switch and not get killed by Horford/KP pick and pops.

My focus in the trade market would be on adding a big wing that can defend Tatum and/or play some small ball 4.

The problem with that lineup is we can’t rebound the ball and it doesn’t keep Giannis out of foul trouble since he’d be the only guy remotely capable of defending the rim. We need a mobile 5. Keep Giannis at the 4 to take the pressure off of him.

If Boston has a healthy KP (which is equal odds for us having healthy Midds at this point) they probably sweep us. Right now they likely win in 5 or 6.

Rim protection not as important against a team that's going to shoot 50 3s and Giannis doesn't need to be coddled inside against a Horford and Porzingis interior. We should be playing small ball Giannis C lineups more often and definitely against Boston where having more guys on the floor that can move on the perimeter is more important

Exactly.. Boston's closing lineup is Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, Horford/KP. Khris and Prince can absolutely rebound with that lineup and Giannis provides more than enough rim protection. If you need to step up the rebounding/defense you could play AJAX instead of AJ Green in that lineup too.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, we'll have the best "small-ball" rebounder in the entire league (Giannis) no matter what small-ball lineup we throw out there, so I have no idea why people obsess so much over rebounding in those situations. As if anyone thought that the reason we were a great rebounding team in all the Bud years was just because we had Jrue Holiday and Eric Bledsoe.

[pifhluk23]

Wow I knew Bobby was bad for the team from the eye test but that data above really shows it. Poor defense and ISO offense is about as bad as you can be in today's NBA.

[LUKE23]

Yeah, we'll have the best "small-ball" rebounder in the entire league (Giannis) no matter what small-ball lineup we throw out there, so I have no idea why people obsess so much over rebounding in those situations. As if anyone thought that the reason we were a great rebounding team in all the Bud years was just because we had Jrue Holiday and Eric Bledsoe.

Either way, anything we theoretically lose in rebounding, we gain in perimeter defense switchability, ability to play at pace, and offensive versatility. Most of the teams we will see in this year's playoffs - a smaller lineup is a good idea.

[-Jragon-]

I've maintained that the best (re: only?) way to hide Bobby on defense is to play him as the sole big, surround him with shooters, and just run some zone. Brook/Bobby frontcourt is too slow, and the Giannis/Bobby frontcourt has been rough for years now because Giannis still wants to roam on defense, so it just results in a layup factory at the rim anyways with Bobby as a paint defender. Andre makes sense there but the Dame/Bobby pairing was still a positive last season likely because we just spaced everything out and tried to outscore people.

We have proof that this works in last years playoffs, and we didn't even need to run zone.

Not sure why we use last season's playoffs as evidence of anything working. The scrubby Pacers beat us without barely trying. They were toying with us, so that's all garbage stats. If that team played Boston we lose each game by 30.

[raferfenix]

Myles Turner played in 77 games last year. The three years prior were 62 (2023) 42 (2022), 47 (2021) and 62 (2020 which had the bubble split to recover).

He was a walking hospital unit. That's always been the rap on him, and why he hasn't scored a max or near max contract.

My concern too -- especially since he's 28 which is when big men often start to mummify.

Definitely seems like the Pacers are looking to do something but I'm also not sure it'll be with Turner.

Carlisle's quotes make it sound like they could just as easily be buyers:

The Pacers have been linked to several veteran centers, and the recent waiving of backup big man Moses Brown opened up a roster spot and roughly $2 million in salary space, making a move (big or small) much easier. On Tuesday, head coach Rick Carlisle didn't hide the Pacers' intentions.

"December 15th is getting here somewhat soon. I think there's no secret that that's a day where there's going to be some activity around the league beginning," he said. "And if tangible deals happen on the 15th, there's going to be a lot more talk happening around the league. I don't know if that means anything for us necessarily, but that's a significant date."

Usually, when asked about the possibility of a trade, coaches give boilerplate "that's up to the front office" or "we're working with the roster we have" answers.

https://athlonsports.com/nba/indiana-pacers/nba-trade-rumors-secret-pacers-get-deal-done-rick-carlisle-indiana-brutally-honest

[ShootingtheJ]

I've maintained that the best (re: only?) way to hide Bobby on defense is to play him as the sole big, surround him with shooters, and just run some zone. Brook/Bobby frontcourt is too slow, and the Giannis/Bobby frontcourt has been rough for years now because Giannis still wants to roam on defense, so it just results in a layup factory at the rim anyways with Bobby as a paint defender. Andre makes sense there but the Dame/Bobby pairing was still a positive last season likely because we just spaced everything out and tried to outscore people.

We have proof that this works in last years playoffs, and we didn't even need to run zone.

Not sure why we use last season's playoffs as evidence of anything working. The scrubby Pacers beat us without barely trying. They were toying with us, so that's all garbage stats. If that team played Boston we lose each game by 30.

We defended them better than anyone else in the playoffs, despite Brooks ugly numbers and Dames usual ineffective defense.

[ShootingtheJ]

Myles Turner played in 77 games last year. The three years prior were 62 (2023) 42 (2022), 47 (2021) and 62 (2020 which had the bubble split to recover).

He was a walking hospital unit. That's always been the rap on him, and why he hasn't scored a max or near max contract.

My concern too -- especially since he's 28 which is when big men often start to mummify.

Definitely seems like the Pacers are looking to do something but I'm also not sure it'll be with Turner.

Carlisle's quotes make it sound like they could just as easily be buyers:

The Pacers have been linked to several veteran centers, and the recent waiving of backup big man Moses Brown opened up a roster spot and roughly $2 million in salary space, making a move (big or small) much easier. On Tuesday, head coach Rick Carlisle didn't hide the Pacers' intentions.

"December 15th is getting here somewhat soon. I think there's no secret that that's a day where there's going to be some activity around the league beginning," he said. "And if tangible deals happen on the 15th, there's going to be a lot more talk happening around the league. I don't know if that means anything for us necessarily, but that's a significant date."

Usually, when asked about the possibility of a trade, coaches give boilerplate "that's up to the front office" or "we're working with the roster we have" answers.

https://athlonsports.com/nba/indiana-pacers/nba-trade-rumors-secret-pacers-get-deal-done-rick-carlisle-indiana-brutally-honest

Looks like their guy is Thomas Bryant.

[ShootingtheJ]

The idea of putting two man lineups up as any indication of a player's worth is beyond silly unless the league goes to two man lineups and even then it has holes.

According to the chart, any combo of Portis is bad except with KM and a few others. So if KM is on the court with BP, Green, Ajax and Giannis, that should be the best team in the league.

The lineups with KM playing PG are outscoring their opponents by 50 points/100.

Yes, I understand they're extremely small sample.

[stillgotgame]

God forbid we have to constantly explain to you guys how lineup data and sample sizes work without having to entertain these meandering diatribes about how we're all just being mean and hate Bobby with this now mountain of evidence over the last season and a half that tells us he's a net drag on lineups no matter who he's playing with. Yes, we're gonna keep harping on the obvious weak points and flaws of this roster until they're fixed.

According to the chart, any combo of Portis is bad

Seriously, at what point does this stop being a coincidence to you guys?

So just so I understand you - you want to get rid of Bobby because all his lineups have been bad and you want to replace him with Myles Turner - who's also been bad, no matter who he's playing with. But we're buying low

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/turnemy01/lineups/2025

[Dick Tate]

Myles Turner played in 77 games last year. The three years prior were 62 (2023) 42 (2022), 47 (2021) and 62 (2020 which had the bubble split to recover).

He was a walking hospital unit. That's always been the rap on him, and why he hasn't scored a max or near max contract.

My concern too -- especially since he's 28 which is when big men often start to mummify.

Definitely seems like the Pacers are looking to do something but I'm also not sure it'll be with Turner.

Carlisle's quotes make it sound like they could just as easily be buyers:

The Pacers have been linked to several veteran centers, and the recent waiving of backup big man Moses Brown opened up a roster spot and roughly $2 million in salary space, making a move (big or small) much easier. On Tuesday, head coach Rick Carlisle didn't hide the Pacers' intentions.

"December 15th is getting here somewhat soon. I think there's no secret that that's a day where there's going to be some activity around the league beginning," he said. "And if tangible deals happen on the 15th, there's going to be a lot more talk happening around the league. I don't know if that means anything for us necessarily, but that's a significant date."

Usually, when asked about the possibility of a trade, coaches give boilerplate "that's up to the front office" or "we're working with the roster we have" answers.

https://athlonsports.com/nba/indiana-pacers/nba-trade-rumors-secret-pacers-get-deal-done-rick-carlisle-indiana-brutally-honest

Looks like their guy is Thomas Bryant.

A tangible safeguard to a tangible deal not happening on the 15th?