Kohl/Arena Discussion Page 71 - Study Released
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- unklchuk
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
My mention of the cost of family attendance in my mind had nothing to do with tickets being too expensive. I was saying that the expense (whatever it is) is hard to accept if the chances are the evening will disappoint.
Right now our minimally-talented, highly-erratic team will more often than not leave most kids playing with their digital toys. Both wins and closely-contested games are fun -- but it seems the Bucks embarrass themselves more often than they do the first two.
That's why I think an improved Bucks team that is regularly expected to finish 4-to-7 in the playoffs can have a lot more entertainment value. That's not contending (and thus it's not enough longterm) but it is enough to slowly turn the battleship around.
Milwaukee will adopt and enjoy the Bucks, IMO, if the story is positive -- trending (if only gradually) upward.
It's slightly like the relative who is in and out of drug rehab. You start out being heartened by the constructive steps, but as in the case of the Bucks, if you see the continuous pattern of good/bad/good/bad/etc it's hard not to lose hope. To perhaps sever ties.
The Bucks have had so many failures, fueled by so many mistakes, that they have no legitimate right to ask for fan loyalty.
That can be changed. But not with words alone or Buckian baby steps.
Right now our minimally-talented, highly-erratic team will more often than not leave most kids playing with their digital toys. Both wins and closely-contested games are fun -- but it seems the Bucks embarrass themselves more often than they do the first two.
That's why I think an improved Bucks team that is regularly expected to finish 4-to-7 in the playoffs can have a lot more entertainment value. That's not contending (and thus it's not enough longterm) but it is enough to slowly turn the battleship around.
Milwaukee will adopt and enjoy the Bucks, IMO, if the story is positive -- trending (if only gradually) upward.
It's slightly like the relative who is in and out of drug rehab. You start out being heartened by the constructive steps, but as in the case of the Bucks, if you see the continuous pattern of good/bad/good/bad/etc it's hard not to lose hope. To perhaps sever ties.
The Bucks have had so many failures, fueled by so many mistakes, that they have no legitimate right to ask for fan loyalty.
That can be changed. But not with words alone or Buckian baby steps.
AFAIK, IDKM
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
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- RealGM
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
paulpressey25 wrote:This thing will live or die with the State GOP and Walker. I believe that at the end of the day, the Milwaukee crew will figure out some way to local tax or divert a tax to create a giant "entertainment district" in the Park East. But that according the State law, even if the tax is local, the tax concept will need to be approved by the State.
They will not do anything without a referendum, this will be a city of Milwaukee thing or at most Milwaukee county....I don't believe they will succeed including Milwaukee county. I do not believe Oklahoma City or Orlando had their Gov. involved in the process......I know California's Gov. is not involved in the Sacramento plans either.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
In this economy, tax dollars going to build an arena mainly thought to be for the Bucks has almost zero percent of actually happening. Hell, the referendum to fix up Lambeau Field years ago and before the economy took a dump barely passed, and that's for the beloved Packers.
Not only would the public as a whole be against tax dollars going for a new arena, i can't envision politicians sticking their necks out for something a near lock to be unpopular. Even if Kohl sold the team to someone local, i don't see there being an appetite among politicians to fight for a new arena during these bad economic times. It would be toxic politically.
Not only would the public as a whole be against tax dollars going for a new arena, i can't envision politicians sticking their necks out for something a near lock to be unpopular. Even if Kohl sold the team to someone local, i don't see there being an appetite among politicians to fight for a new arena during these bad economic times. It would be toxic politically.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
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- Sixth Man
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
MickeyDavis wrote:http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2012/11/30/slideshow-what-oklahoma-city-built.html
Bumping this up. I can't read the article but as the slideshow shows, there is a LOT that a tax CAN do for a downtown revitalization, and an arena is only a piece of the big picture. While there is a Bucks component, there is also a "let's have pride in our city" component.
Would we want to push for this now, or wait 30 years to do a revitalization and try to lure back the businesses that by then will have left?
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- trwi7
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Bumping this back up because there are a ton of interviews on 620 about this.
Tim Sheehy
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_sheehy.mp3
Alderman Mike Murphy
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_murphy.mp3
OKC Mayor Mick Cornett
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_cornett.mp3
From Milwaukee Theater abortion fame Frank Gimbel
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_gimbel.mp3
Saw on twitter that Chris Abele was on discussing this today as well but they haven't posted the interview yet. I haven't listened to any of these yet either so if you ask for what was said I won't say anything or I could lie to you and make something up.
Tim Sheehy
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_sheehy.mp3
Alderman Mike Murphy
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_murphy.mp3
OKC Mayor Mick Cornett
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_cornett.mp3
From Milwaukee Theater abortion fame Frank Gimbel
http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/113012_gimbel.mp3
Saw on twitter that Chris Abele was on discussing this today as well but they haven't posted the interview yet. I haven't listened to any of these yet either so if you ask for what was said I won't say anything or I could lie to you and make something up.
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."
I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
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- Sixth Man
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Thanks for the links:
Sheehy:
Leaders are going to Oklahoma City and have made several visits
OKC is a vision for a community that was built around assets not yet in place
Milwaukee has some assets in place but they require improvements, need to help with public museums as well as multi-purpose arena
What do we want Milwaukee to look like in 2020?
Time is of the essence
Ultimately a community decision
Murphy:
OKC approved its tax by referendum
An advisory referendum for tax in Milwaukee would be unfavorable
Estimates 86% of people would oppose tax based on Milwaukee Business Journal informal poll
He explicitly mentions a facility for the Bucks ONLY
Tax dollars in the state are too limited
Gave an example of Sacramento, the other side of the spectrum from OKC, where they lost necessary jobs like police, and because of that, the citizens didn't approve an arena tax referendum
There may be other options, like funding development with foreign investments
Cornett:
Tax was initially opposed in OKC, but now nobody would admit to voting against it because of the improvements/pride
Quality of life is biggest economic driver; says EVERYTHING changed with tax initiative
Taxes go away after certain amount of time, so they continually renew via vote
Every city needs to invest in itself
Life in OKC 20 years ago was worse than Milwaukee is now
Milwaukee still has a lot going for it, but OKC has lots of momentum in terms of development
OKC used to model itself after Milwaukee, now perhaps vise versa
Gimbel:
Wisconsin Center District has taxing authority that covers food/beverage, hotels, rental cars
This gains $25mil in revenue annually
Private sector can't do it alone, public would be needed for arena development
New or expanded convention center should be part of any proposal
Sheehy:
Leaders are going to Oklahoma City and have made several visits
OKC is a vision for a community that was built around assets not yet in place
Milwaukee has some assets in place but they require improvements, need to help with public museums as well as multi-purpose arena
What do we want Milwaukee to look like in 2020?
Time is of the essence
Ultimately a community decision
Murphy:
OKC approved its tax by referendum
An advisory referendum for tax in Milwaukee would be unfavorable
Estimates 86% of people would oppose tax based on Milwaukee Business Journal informal poll
He explicitly mentions a facility for the Bucks ONLY
Tax dollars in the state are too limited
Gave an example of Sacramento, the other side of the spectrum from OKC, where they lost necessary jobs like police, and because of that, the citizens didn't approve an arena tax referendum
There may be other options, like funding development with foreign investments
Cornett:
Tax was initially opposed in OKC, but now nobody would admit to voting against it because of the improvements/pride
Quality of life is biggest economic driver; says EVERYTHING changed with tax initiative
Taxes go away after certain amount of time, so they continually renew via vote
Every city needs to invest in itself
Life in OKC 20 years ago was worse than Milwaukee is now
Milwaukee still has a lot going for it, but OKC has lots of momentum in terms of development
OKC used to model itself after Milwaukee, now perhaps vise versa
Gimbel:
Wisconsin Center District has taxing authority that covers food/beverage, hotels, rental cars
This gains $25mil in revenue annually
Private sector can't do it alone, public would be needed for arena development
New or expanded convention center should be part of any proposal
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
I think these articles are selling Milwaukee a little short by comparing us to Oklahoma City. This isn't to belittle OKC (it's a great up and coming American city) but downtown Milwaukee is leagues ahead of what downtown OKC was before the improvements. We simply need a new basketball arena, a convention center expansion, something to be done with Grand Ave, and the economy to improve. People here forget how much downtown Milwaukee has improved in the past 10 years.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- trwi7
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."
I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- MickeyDavis
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Shinyhubcaps wrote:Thanks for the links:
Gimbel:
New or expanded convention center should be part of any proposal
No f'n way. Keep GImbel's paws out of any financing plan. Yes some WCD money should be used but first get rid of Gimbel. He should have no part on any of this.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- trwi7
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
I suggest everyone listen to the Abele interview.
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."
I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- drew881
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Can we also build Kevin Durant? Missing one minor piece to this puzzle...
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- PkrsBcksGphsMqt
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
What's going on with Barrett's trolley project? I will predict if that thing actually gets the green light, it will be the nail in the coffin for the Bucks. No way there's enough money for a new stadium if that trolley soaks up what little tax money is available.
BucksRuleAll22 wrote:Calvin Johnson is horrible and not a top WR.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- KeyRabbit
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Deadspin graphic on stadium financing trends
http://deadspin.com/5964116/animated-infographic-watch-as-americas-stadiums-pile-up-on-the-backs-of-taxpayers
http://deadspin.com/5964116/animated-infographic-watch-as-americas-stadiums-pile-up-on-the-backs-of-taxpayers
________________________________
Candy is Dandy, but Liquor is Quicker
Candy is Dandy, but Liquor is Quicker
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- trwi7
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."
I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Build a new with 12K capacity, create your own demand.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
trwi7 wrote:http://media2.620wtmj.com/WAN/120712_Kass.mp3
I agree with the hosts, really grateful for the coverage. TMJ is pushing it too. Good to hear there's some potential. Funny that he knows Racine wouldn't want it, Racine hates everything.
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- MadBlueEdwards
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but apparently Michael Heisley is interested in buying the Bucks.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-121214-15/nba-top-trade-targets
Heard a fresh round of rumbles this week that former Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley, as covered here in early November, is already interested in buying back into the league and has the Milwaukee Bucks in his sights.
So that's one more intriguing variable to factor into Milwaukee's season of mystery.
Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings, don't forget, are in the final season of their respective contracts. Ditto for coach Scott Skiles and general manager John Hammond. Why not throw a potential ownership transfer into the Brew Stew?
Heisley is based in Chicago and, based on what's been circulating, sees the Bucks as a natural team to pursue to keep him close to home.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-121214-15/nba-top-trade-targets
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- RiotPunch
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Dude is going to be 75 this year, but I could get behind this. He gets to stay close to Chicago and will keep the Bucks in MKE.
Don't really know much about him though. Seems to have done a solid job while owning the Grizz.
Don't really know much about him though. Seems to have done a solid job while owning the Grizz.
#FreeChuckDiesel
Bucksmaniac wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm starting to sour on Giannis
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
- mcfromage
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 46 - We went to OKC
Interesting development re: Heisley. Don't really know much about the guy but I was struck by two things: 1. the fact that a quick Google search shows his net worth as strikingly larger then Kohl's (dude's a billionaire) and 2. this comment at the end of that Stein article:
Curious to hear others thoughts on this. Stein is usually pretty plugged into the team as my memory serves...
Can-I-Get-A-Hot-Tub
Heard a fresh round of rumbles this week that former Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley, as covered here in early November, is already interested in buying back into the league and has the Milwaukee Bucks in his sights.
=
If I'm the league, I do NOT let this happen. This guy moved the franchise from Vancouver to MEM and sucked for a long time, then sold the team when the team was at its highest value.
Now because the Grizz are actually really good, he feels regret about taking the money over the love of basketball. Now he wants back in the league, and if the Bucks continue to suck, he will move the team and/or sell it again.less
Curious to hear others thoughts on this. Stein is usually pretty plugged into the team as my memory serves...
Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 51 - Heisley rumor)
- paulpressey25
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Re: Kohl/Arena Discussion-(Big update pg 51 - Heisley rumor)
Heisley has been linked to the Bucks for a decade now. As noted, he was the guy who moved the Grizzlies. He is a businessman first and foremost. Born in DC, grew up in VA and a Georgetown Grad. In other words he is a guy with no roots or strong ties to Wisconsin. That for me is a big negative. The other negative is the age. What happens to the team if he passes on?
That said, the big positives are:
a) This guy has money although he's cheap (see Pau Gasol salary dump in 2008)
b) He didn't run a bad franchise in Memphis. Other than wanting to have Dick Versace for awhile, he did bring in Jerry West for a spell and the current Memphis roster is really his.
c) He doesn't buy the team unless it is in conjunction with a new arena and presumably a long-term lease.
Here is Stein's commentary on this from last month.
That said, the big positives are:
a) This guy has money although he's cheap (see Pau Gasol salary dump in 2008)
b) He didn't run a bad franchise in Memphis. Other than wanting to have Dick Versace for awhile, he did bring in Jerry West for a spell and the current Memphis roster is really his.
c) He doesn't buy the team unless it is in conjunction with a new arena and presumably a long-term lease.
Here is Stein's commentary on this from last month.
We haven't necessarily seen the last of former Memphis Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley.
Not if you buy what's circulating with increasing volume about Heisley's interest in eventually buying the Milwaukee Bucks from Herb Kohl.
Sale speculation about the Bucks has been a staple for years, but the latest scenario in circulation has the Chicago-based Heisley making a serious bid to buy the franchise if Sen. Kohl can secure the new building (or Bradley Center refurbishment) that would cement the team's future in Wisconsin.
Kohl is 76. Heisley is 75 and cited his age as one of the factors that prompted him to sell the Grizzlies to 34-year-old technology magnate Robert Pera, but Heisley also made it clear when news of the sale emerged in June that he might not have taken that step if his dream of the Grizzlies becoming the second NBA team in the Chicago area had materialized.
Buying the Bucks would give Heisley a very-close-to-home route back into the league he loves, after those long-ago attempts to convince the league that Chicago was big enough for two NBA franchises proved unsuccessful.