Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

[coolhandluke121]

I don't remember any noise about Brogdon worrying about playing time at PG, but I remember watching him play PG and it was awful. Looking forward to seeing him play PG for a play-off rival though.

That said, if he sheds a little weight like he said he was going to do, it might make a big difference. He was just too slow. I honestly didn't even like him that much at SG, and thought he did a good job at SF against the Raptors.

[bizarro]

I don't remember any noise about Brogdon worrying about playing time at PG, but I remember watching him play PG and it was awful. Looking forward to seeing him play PG for a play-off rival though.

That said, if he sheds a little weight like he said he was going to do, it might make a big difference. He was just too slow. I honestly didn't even like him that much at SG, and thought he did a good job at SF against the Raptors.

That's just the thing. He isn't a very effective PG. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. He's deliberate. He can't fight over screens with any efficacy. He's a very very average passer. He's an elite off-ball player. If given space he's deadly from distance. He's beautifully impactful from the FT line and in attacking close-outs. As you say (and as I've been saying) he's best implemented as a big 2/undersized 3.

[LuessiT]

I don't remember any noise about Brogdon worrying about playing time at PG, but I remember watching him play PG and it was awful. Looking forward to seeing him play PG for a play-off rival though.

That said, if he sheds a little weight like he said he was going to do, it might make a big difference. He was just too slow. I honestly didn't even like him that much at SG, and thought he did a good job at SF against the Raptors.

That's just the thing. He isn't a very effective PG. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. He's deliberate. He can't fight over screens with any efficacy. He's a very very average passer. He's an elite off-ball player. If given space he's deadly from distance. He's beautifully impactful from the FT line and in attacking close-outs. As you say (and as I've been saying) he's best implemented as a big 2/undersized 3.

Yeah he definately should have been used more as a 3. He can make up for the size with strength and length. I think playing him as a PG in Indiana will hurt his reputation quite a bit but ultimately they'll be fine because you want the ball in Oladipo's hands anyway.

[blazza18]

Excited to know we might have a pick in the 2020 nba draft.

[LuessiT]

Excited to know we might have a pick in the 2020 nba draft.

Don't get your hopes up because we may well trade it anyway.

[Brewhoopfan]

I don't remember any noise about Brogdon worrying about playing time at PG, but I remember watching him play PG and it was awful. Looking forward to seeing him play PG for a play-off rival though.

That said, if he sheds a little weight like he said he was going to do, it might make a big difference. He was just too slow. I honestly didn't even like him that much at SG, and thought he did a good job at SF against the Raptors.

That's just the thing. He isn't a very effective PG. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. He's deliberate. He can't fight over screens with any efficacy. He's a very very average passer. He's an elite off-ball player. If given space he's deadly from distance. He's beautifully impactful from the FT line and in attacking close-outs. As you say (and as I've been saying) he's best implemented as a big 2/undersized 3.

Yeah he definately should have been used more as a 3. He can make up for the size with strength and length. I think playing him as a PG in Indiana will hurt his reputation quite a bit but ultimately they'll be fine because you want the ball in Oladipo's hands anyway.

With Giannis, the PG is not a traditional primary ball-handler anyways. Brogdon was fine offensively as the PG along side Giannis. I'll concede he did struggle creating for others when Giannis was on the bench. And no doubt, he is average at best guarding opposing PGs. All that said, if we're talking about production in the playoffs: we let the wrong (even if miscast) PG go. I feel a lot better about the situation with Hill back, but it stinks to feel like you need a backup plan for Bledsoe.

Perhaps Bledsoe can get some advice from Lowry about how to finally not suck in the playoffs.

[BucksFanSD]

but it stinks to feel like you need a backup plan for Bledsoe.

Which is why between September and the trading deadline we should be exploring Bledsoe deals for a PG with a quality shot.

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

Ray Allen trade all over again. Trading our premier shooter for peanuts.

[MiltownHawkeye]

but it stinks to feel like you need a backup plan for Bledsoe.

Which is why between September and the trading deadline we should be exploring Bledsoe deals for a PG with a quality shot.

Like who?

[-Jragon-]

Ray Allen trade all over again. Trading our premier shooter for peanuts.

He got game? I guess Brogdon will be in the HOF?

[DavidDunn21]

Yeah that makes me feel a lot better about this whole deal. Now that I think about it, didn't his body language actually get noticeably worse after we traded for Bledsoe back in 2017? We weren't super worried about it at the time or anything but it was definitely noted by some people here. I could be falsely remembering that and FWIW I think he'd always be a professional no matter where he played, but we were definitely concerned about how Brogs would take it after the Bledsoe trade and maybe those chickens came home to roost.

I really, really want to re-litigate the 2018 Celtics series. I almost want a new thread about it.

[MAC1987]

Ray Allen trade all over again. Trading our premier shooter for peanuts.

Is there -1's ? because this is the worst post I've ever seen.

[FrieAaron]

Ray Allen trade all over again. Trading our premier shooter for peanuts.

I really like Brog and would have prioritized him over Midds but he is nowhere near Ray Allen

[LaCatrina]

I haven't read all the posts, but of the many pages I have read, there has been much reference to Brogdon's offensive qualities (and limitations.) But a huge part of his value was his defensive ability, and consistency. I'll really miss him, seemed like a terrific well-rounded guy. Outstanding defense; really good creator via the drive; excellent 3-point shooter; very accommodating team guy who didn't need lots of shots to be effective. Calm and good in the clutch. If he stays healthy, Indiana is going to be very happy with what he brings them.

Nothing stays the same, of course, and in many ways the Bucks window of opportunity may have been at it's very widest this past season. The Bucks have a bunch of really old, veteran guys (Lopez, Lopez, Hill, Matthews, Ersan, that's a lot of really old rotation guys, and Midds is heavily used as well....) So perhaps that window will close very quickly, beats me. And obviously replacing Brogdon's all-around quality of play will be difficult.

But that window sure isn't closed, that's for sure.

If Kawai leaves, perhaps the east will actually be even easier to get through? Who knows.

Obviously part of what I love as a fan is seeing younger players emerge. It would be really cool if we saw useful development from Sterling, DJ, and DDV. Development from some or all of those guys could impact how flexible and injury-resilient the team will be.

Agree with a lot of this but this point is blown up to be a bigger problem than it is.

That group is not that old, nor have any of them, outside of I'd guess Hill, missed significant time in any recent season. And I'd bet they all had a few DNPs in some of the games missed for tanking, trades and buyout talks.

There isn't a concrete linear regression of play as age goes up. Wesley Matthews isn't all of a sudden going to become a chucker made of glass because he's now 32 instead of 31. None of these guys are being invested in for big money beyond 34 or 35 years old. These are also professional athletes with the best medical resources readily available.

What matters the most is this team stays competitive for the 2019-2020 season, which is exactly what John Horst has masterfully done, given the intensity and pressure of the decisions he's had to make.

People fear there will be this massive dropoff in performance because the production won't look exactly the same without Malcolm Brogdon. But when's the last time we had an intense athletic backup C who works on both ends of the floor and can keep more possessions alive? Or a full season with a legit veteran backup PG who rarely makes mistakes? Or a productive veteran wing, who many Bucks fans wanted during Buyouts, choosing to come here on a minimum deal? Malcolm's production can be replaced. It will just need to look different. A good coach can do that, and we finally have that.

We have absolutely no idea why Malcolm Brogdon wasn't brought back.

Maybe the team really didn't want to pay or maybe Malcolm just really didn't want to be in Milwaukee anymore. Whatever the reason is, Horst didn't risk dysfunction in the FO or a potential cancer in the locker room during the season before the most critical offseason this franchise has ever had, all while keeping the team competitive and fighting for the top spot in the East.

Not to mention the picks we got from Indiana as well. Horst has made moves Hammond never had the balls to do with deals like Bledsoe and Hill.

Not directed at you, but I just can't believe people are bashing a guy who navigated all of that, kept the team as top in the East the season before Giannis can sign, and also picked up draft picks to use in midseason trades like he's proven to do in the past.

[brewbucks]

Watch on YouTube

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/07/how-the-pacers-owner-helped-out-the-bucks-in-the-malcolm-brogdon-deal

“When you’re signing a restricted free agent, a lot of times you will give a toxic offer sheet. Poison pills, huge exploding salaries, front-end bonuses, options. You want to do everything you possibly can to de-incentivize a team from matching it – and teams have gotten creative over the years. The Brooklyn Nets have given out several very toxic offer sheets in the last few years.

…. So in this case, Herb Simon, who is the old-school, respected owner of the Pacers, called up the Bucks’ ownership and said ‘we would like to sign your restricted free agent Malcolm Brogdon. We do not want to give a toxic offer sheet, I don’t believe in doing that to a partner of mine. Can we work out a deal?’

…. It was a hell of a deal for the Bucks, because I don’t think the Bucks were going to match an $85 million dollar offer. We’ll never really know.”

[Profound23]

I don't get how Windhorst is one of the first to see how good of a deal this was for us. We weren't giving him 85 mil with all the money wrapped up in other players. I like Brogdon but he is a role player at best and you can find cheap players who are just as good as him.

Does anyone know the protection on the first round pick? Indy is good but you never know.

[paulpressey25]

I don't get how Windhorst is one of the first to see how good of a deal this was for us. We weren't giving him 85 mil with all the money wrapped up in other players. I like Brogdon but he is a role player at best and you can find cheap players who are just as good as him.

Does anyone know the protection on the first round pick? Indy is good but you never know.

Windhorst is smart

Deal is lotto protected for next five seasons, then pick becomes unprotected.

[FlagsFlyForever]

Excited to know we might have a pick in the 2020 nba draft.

We'll see. As we speak, Horst is trying to find a taker for Leuer before he has to stretch him.

[PG Graveyard]

I don't get how Windhorst is one of the first to see how good of a deal this was for us. We weren't giving him 85 mil with all the money wrapped up in other players. I like Brogdon but he is a role player at best and you can find cheap players who are just as good as him.

Does anyone know the protection on the first round pick? Indy is good but you never know.

Windhorst is smart

Deal is lotto protected for next five seasons, then pick becomes unprotected.

It has a chance to be a really nice pick next year. With Oladipo out until at least January and Brogdon's injury history they may be a 7 or 8 seed....Hopefully for us. I"m not big on that squad. I love Brogdon, but don't see him as a number 1 option and that is what he is going to have to be until Dipo comes back and even then it will take a while for him to get up to speed.

[trwi7]

Excited to know we might have a pick in the 2020 nba draft.

I'm sure we'll probably use it to trade Leuer or something.