Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

raferfenix · Post #761 » by **raferfenix** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 3:31 am

Even with the picks i’m having trouble justifying the decision to keep Bledsoe over Brogdon.

If we hadn’t already extended Bledsoe would they have made the same moves?

vegaspacker · Post #762 » by **vegaspacker** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 9:20 am

raferfenix wrote:Even with the picks i’m having trouble justifying the decision to keep Bledsoe over Brogdon.

If we hadn’t already extended Bledsoe would they have made the same moves?

The rumor that Brogdon was destined to leave may have been the reasoning for the decision. He certainly was an aloof cat from my observation.

The Bucks move sparked after the moment Bledsoe had a monster game. Seems like a subtle PR justification to make that move.

soxperry · Post #763 » by **soxperry** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 11:22 am

The worst part about this trade is that it's going to take quite a while before we see how well or how poorly we played this. Now, if he really didn't want to be here then the move was a no brainer, but i doubt we'll ever know that for sure. So basically we now have to go through the entire season, all the ups and downs, Brogdon's big nights put up against our off nights and vice versa. How is that pick coming along? Will we trade it? Gotta be a part of something bigger, right? Always is, that's the hope. Anyway... it's going to be annoying more than anything. Thank god we have the Lopez brothers to keep us distracted a little.

BigO · Post #764 » by **BigO** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 1:01 pm

The idea that the Pacers GM would give up a first round pick just so he didn't cause any hurt feelings on the Bucks is not believable. No one ever does that nor should they. If everyone around the league thinks brogdon wanted out (I don't) then why give up three picks if the BUcks couldn't or wouldn't match the offer.

Never believe these fantasies unless you have evidence. Instead, follow logic, which tells you that the Bucks were going to match at that salary rate. The Pacers could have gone higher, but they didn't want to pay more than that either. Three draft choices tell you that the Bucks told the Pacers this is what it will take for us not to match the offer. There is no other logical explanation.

Chapter29 · Post #765 » by **Chapter29** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 1:16 pm

vegaspacker wrote:
raferfenix wrote:Even with the picks i’m having trouble justifying the decision to keep Bledsoe over Brogdon.

If we hadn’t already extended Bledsoe would they have made the same moves?
The rumor that Brogdon was destined to leave may have been the reasoning for the decision. He certainly was an aloof cat from my observation.

The Bucks move sparked after the moment Bledsoe had a monster game. Seems like a subtle PR justification to make that move.

Everyone else was on record wanting to return. Brogdon was quiet. I just assumed it was because of his RFA status. Have to have your pokerface on maybe? Otherwise if he indeed wanted to leave, then this worked out pretty well for us. Though I am not sure I'd care what he wanted in this case.

My guess is, we simply blew it. Heck we perhaps where going to match and we got that phone call and offer and we liked it. I mean lets be for real. Brogdon is a glue guy, a team guy. A depth, take what the defense gives the team offensive kind of guy. Not a #2 kind of guy, though we will see I guess. He was overpaid and may be forced into a role on in the offense beyond his means. Lets see if he remains a 50-40-90 guy with a larger role. My guess is no.

On the Bledsoe front? I think you have to consider the coach on that. He was constantly stating the importance of Bledsoe's defense at the point of attack and Brook's interior defense as what anchors this team. Always calling these guys out. We knew for sure that they would be retained as the represent the core of who we are as a team. Bledsoe probably needs some therapy during the playoffs or something to keep him right but holy cow was this guy super important to those 60 wins. So, I was very happy about the signing at the time. A little tempered on it now due to his terrible play at the end there. Again. Would it have changed our match decision with Brogdon having Bledsoe as a FA also this offseason? No, I think it would have made our offseason even that much harder and riskier. Possibly losing 2 guys from our 60 win team.

I still wish we'd have retained Brogdon, but I do look forward to having RoLo and Wes on the team. Should be fun. We likely still have at least one more move up our 2019 offseason sleeve. Either way, lets get it on. We have a really good team that has a shot.

ShootingtheJ · Post #766 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 1:30 pm

BigO wrote:The idea that the Pacers GM would give up a first round pick just so he didn't cause any hurt feelings on the Bucks is not believable. No one ever does that nor should they. If everyone around the league thinks brogdon wanted out (I don't) then why give up three picks if the BUcks couldn't or wouldn't match the offer.

Never believe these fantasies unless you have evidence. Instead, follow logic, which tells you that the Bucks were going to match at that salary rate. The Pacers could have gone higher, but they didn't want to pay more than that either. Three draft choices tell you that the Bucks told the Pacers this is what it will take for us not to match the offer. There is no other logical explanation.

Other teams were interested in Brogdon. I'm guessing that the Bucks told teams they'd be interested in a sign & trade, and Indiana had offers to beat.

soxperry · Post #767 » by **soxperry** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 3:53 pm

So what's the status on this TPE? I know Nehm said that he talked about why we likely wouldnt keep it on the pod but i listened to the pod and it didnt come up... Then again ive been known to drift a little.

To me, keeping and utilizing that TPE is crucial in how this trade should be assessed. Thats 12 mil that we can either use or it just disappears and we are left less flexible vs the cap. So what is the argument against us having it? Luxury tax? Some kind of weird order of operations that disqualifies us from it?

Post #768 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 3:55 pm

soxperry wrote:So what's the status on this TPE? I know Nehm said that he talked about why we likely wouldnt keep it on the pod but i listened to the pod and it didnt come up... Then again ive been known to drift a little.

To me, keeping and utilizing that TPE is crucial in how this trade should be assessed. Thats 12 mil that we can either use or it just disappears and we are left less flexible vs the cap. So what is the argument against us having it? Luxury tax? Some kind of weird order of operations that disqualifies us from it?

We just don’t know yet how the team will create cap space to re up Hill and Lopez when the moratorium ends on July 6th. They may waive and stretch Leuer’s contract, trade Leuer, trade Ersan, etc.

That needs to be solved first.

soxperry · Post #769 » by **soxperry** » Thu Jul 4, 2019 3:56 pm

Also if Brogdon didnt want to be in an offense that is perfectly suited to his playing style on a team with a budding mega star he's either an idiot or he just doesnt see himself clearly as a player. Im sure now that hes unlocked and unleashed its going to be Harden to the Rockets all over again.

GBPackers47 · Post #770 » by **GBPackers47** » Fri Jul 5, 2019 2:41 pm

soxperry wrote:Also if Brogdon didnt want to be in an offense that is perfectly suited to his playing style on a team with a budding mega star he's either an idiot or he just doesnt see himself clearly as a player. Im sure now that hes unlocked and unleashed its going to be Harden to the Rockets all over again.

Lol cmon man.

Why are we acting so salty because a pro athlete is believig in himself?

Chapter29 · Post #771 » by **Chapter29** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 12:41 pm

A friend of mine told me that Brogdon wasn't comfortable playing in a city that was so segregated. Not sure if that is true or not but I do recall him bringing that up in the past.

Matches Malone · Post #772 » by **Matches Malone** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 12:46 pm

I have a hard time putting much stock in the segregation argument. He signed an offer sheet in a city with it's own segregation issues (might even be a little worse than MIL).

Chapter29 · Post #773 » by **Chapter29** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 12:57 pm

Matches Malone wrote:I have a hard time putting much stock in the segregation argument. He signed an offer sheet in a city with it's own segregation issues (might even be a little worse than MIL).

I dunno, just heard what I heard. Also, based on the latest report I read from WISN recently.

Milwaukee went from 2 to 1, a 79.8 index (IE the worst)
Indiana went from 9, a 71.7 index to not on the list.

A note from that https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/12/17/black-white-segregation-edges-downward-since-2000-census-shows/

"Overall, in 45 of these 51 metro areas black-white segregation has declined since 2000. Most only achieved modest reductions of 1 to 4 points. Yet 16 areas did show declines of 5 points or more. Detroit led the way with a decline of nearly 12 points, and other Midwestern and Northern metro areas including Kansas City, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, Buffalo, Cleveland, and Minneapolis also posted large drops in segregation."

soxperry · Post #774 » by **soxperry** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 2:03 pm

GBPackers47 wrote:
soxperry wrote:Also if Brogdon didnt want to be in an offense that is perfectly suited to his playing style on a team with a budding mega star he's either an idiot or he just doesnt see himself clearly as a player. Im sure now that hes unlocked and unleashed its going to be Harden to the Rockets all over again.

Lol cmon man.

Why are we acting so salty because a pro athlete is believig in himself?

There is believing in yourself and then there is a significant lack of self awareness. He is what he is and everyone but him seems to know it.

TroyD92 · Post #775 » by **TroyD92** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 2:09 pm

soxperry wrote:The worst part about this trade is that it's going to take quite a while before we see how well or how poorly we played this. Now, if he really didn't want to be here then the move was a no brainer, but i doubt we'll ever know that for sure. So basically we now have to go through the entire season, all the ups and downs, Brogdon's big nights put up against our off nights and vice versa. How is that pick coming along? Will we trade it? Gotta be a part of something bigger, right? Always is, that's the hope. Anyway... it's going to be annoying more than anything. Thank god we have the Lopez brothers to keep us distracted a little.

I think you’re severely overestimating how much people care about Brogdon. If it was Giannis? Yeah definitely would be happening all the time. Malcolm Brogdon will probably get a few mention on the ATL thread whenever he plays well.

soxperry · Post #776 » by **soxperry** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 2:15 pm

TroyD92 wrote:
soxperry wrote:The worst part about this trade is that it's going to take quite a while before we see how well or how poorly we played this. Now, if he really didn't want to be here then the move was a no brainer, but i doubt we'll ever know that for sure. So basically we now have to go through the entire season, all the ups and downs, Brogdon's big nights put up against our off nights and vice versa. How is that pick coming along? Will we trade it? Gotta be a part of something bigger, right? Always is, that's the hope. Anyway... it's going to be annoying more than anything. Thank god we have the Lopez brothers to keep us distracted a little.

I think you’re severely overestimating how much people care about Brogdon. If it was Giannis? Yeah definitely would be happening all the time. Malcolm Brogdon will probably get a few mention on the ATL thread whenever he plays well.

That would be more convincing if the most posted on thread this offseason, aside from the general FA threads, wasn't by far the Brogdon thread. People care, some are pissed. I would say if we are on a 60 win pace again then you may be right, but if at any point we have a slump and Brogdon is playing well, I promise you it's going to be a thing.

soxperry · Post #777 » by **soxperry** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 2:15 pm

TroyD92 wrote:
soxperry wrote:The worst part about this trade is that it's going to take quite a while before we see how well or how poorly we played this. Now, if he really didn't want to be here then the move was a no brainer, but i doubt we'll ever know that for sure. So basically we now have to go through the entire season, all the ups and downs, Brogdon's big nights put up against our off nights and vice versa. How is that pick coming along? Will we trade it? Gotta be a part of something bigger, right? Always is, that's the hope. Anyway... it's going to be annoying more than anything. Thank god we have the Lopez brothers to keep us distracted a little.

I think you’re severely overestimating how much people care about Brogdon. If it was Giannis? Yeah definitely would be happening all the time. Malcolm Brogdon will probably get a few mention on the ATL thread whenever he plays well.

That would be more convincing if the most posted on thread this offseason, aside from the general FA threads, wasn't by far the Brogdon thread. People care, some are pissed. I would say if we are on a 60 win pace again then you may be right, but if at any point we have a slump and Brogdon is playing well, I promise you it's going to be a thing.

unklchuk · Post #778 » by **unklchuk** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 2:45 pm

Re Brogdon and Milwaukee segregation. If it made him want to leave then his comfort is more important to him than his cause. This is a good time in the city's history to organize against segregation. The revitalized Bucks and their pragmatic owners. Talk of a Democrat convention. Increasing national attention. All provide opportunities for Brogdon to jump in and help lead a push for change. That's a ton better than jumping ship.

Is it possible Coach Bud and Brogdon couldn't see eye to eye? That would be bad, and hard to fathom.

GBPackers47 · Post #779 » by **GBPackers47** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 5:10 pm

soxperry wrote:
GBPackers47 wrote:
soxperry wrote:Also if Brogdon didnt want to be in an offense that is perfectly suited to his playing style on a team with a budding mega star he's either an idiot or he just doesnt see himself clearly as a player. Im sure now that hes unlocked and unleashed its going to be Harden to the Rockets all over again.

Lol cmon man.

Why are we acting so salty because a pro athlete is believig in himself?

There is believing in yourself and then there is a significant lack of self awareness. He is what he is and everyone but him seems to know it.

No. You are being salty af about this situation. Talk about lack of seld awareness.

Isocleas2 · Post #780 » by **Isocleas2** » Sat Jul 6, 2019 5:42 pm

I have no inside info but my gut feeling is Brogdon wanted to handle the ball more. With the Bucks he'll always be the #3 or #4 ball handler after Bled, Giannis, and maybe Middleton. I think he just wants a bigger role and he believes he can be more of a PG than what the Bucks were going to give him.

Think about how different the situation will be in Indiana. He's going to go from just one of the shooters surrounding Giannis to their top scorer (until Dipo is back). If he can handle the load he could be a 20+ ppg guy, get all-star considerations and be some team's max overpay in 4 years. None of that was going to happen in Milwaukee.

He had incentives to want out.