Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[bucksfansince88]

I was once on the side of never trade Giannis unless he asks out. But I’m now minded to think it’s at least a conversation worth having.

Giannis is still amazing and will prob be so you hope for another 4 years or so at least. But this franchise has nearly exhausted every avenue we have to reshape a contending roster around Giannis after 2021.

We have almost no draft capital left, no cap space for meaningful FA signings (assuming you could even convince a big name FA to sign here) and no major trade chips outside Giannis (Dame would bring back decent value but nothing amazing imo).

So I think it’s fine to have a tricky conversation about the future of the team and how realistic we can be about finding a path back to genuine contending with the position we find ourselves in. It may be there isn’t a path and we need to start from scratch. Giannis brings back a haul that can accelerate that rebuild.

I’m not saying we should do it, but I think it’s an option that should be seriously considered.

The alternate is more seasons like this year which is **** dire if you ask me.

Burn down the whole front office and get a competent and empowered mind/staff in place. Let them retool with full autonomy and no meddling owners.

[ShootingtheJ]

Still unfathomable to use a newly drafted rookie, youngest in the class, as an enticement for another team to take on the albatross of one Khris Middleton. What on Earth did Horst see in Kuzma to forfeit the right to see that potential play through? You can figure out 25 minutes a game from Midds. Sims/KPJ would have been sufficient enough.

I think all of us would take a do-over. Horst should be delivering my mail tomorrow.

Its really not that crazy. Teams trade late firsts to shed salary, it happens. Us picking AJ was not seen as a great move, and not only because we are win now. Hes a long shot. Then, he didnt exactly pop in the g league, just showed flashes. The fact that we were able to salvage first round value with him is great. That the Wizards valued him was a blessing. They are the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down.

Many here are currently being significantly influenced by him dunking in nba games while shooting 27% from 3 and i find that strange. We all knew he was an elite athlete. He needs to shoot and score efficiently and again that is a long shot. Our people were with him for months. With his athleticism, if they felt like he had a good chance at succeeding, he would be off the table. They obviously do not.

So we shed Khris's contract
We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important
And we have flexibility to improve the team this off-season in ways that were previously impossible

For

A player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Now we need to shed Kuzma's contract, a worse albatross. He's not an asset. He's already stopped trying on defense.

[Wonka]

A lot of guys clearly aren’t even watching this kid play but are box score watching and think that counts. You have nothing to say about any of the intangibles or genuinely impressive parts of his game, nothing to say about the gravity he’s creating or the drive and kick looks he’s allowing guys on the Wizards to feast on. That’s why they are playing him. But because you look at a box score, you excuse our poor trade because of a 19 year old rookies lack of efficiency thus far. None of those “arguments” excuse what happened with that trade and what is happening with AJ Johnson. Rookies have good games and bad games. It’s about the potential. His potential is off the chart positionally, and unlike Kuzma, he plays with pace and intelligence.

[Wonka]

We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important

A player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Both of these tell me that you aren’t watching either of these guys play. Kuzma again got benched last night due to his defense and AJ started and contributed to a team on which he has the highest net rating on since joining.

And I'm sorry but when is Kuzma going to turn this magical corner you keep going on about regarding how his defense SHOULD be important? Should be? It’s either he is impactful on that end or he isn’t. And he very plainly isn’t. He quit trying weeks ago and has been pouting. Noticeably. Hence the repeated benchings.

[soxperry]

We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important

A player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Both of these tell me that you aren’t watching either of these guys play. Kuzma again got benched last night due to his defense and AJ started and contributed to a team on which he has the highest net rating on since joining.

And I'm sorry but when is Kuzma going to turn this magical corner you keep going on about regarding how his defense SHOULD be important? Should be? It’s either he is impactful on that end or he isn’t. And he very plainly isn’t. He quit trying weeks ago and has been pouting. Noticeably. Hence the repeated benchings.

I dont watch Wizards games. Why would i do that? Hes a guard who is shooting 27% from 3. The avenues to being a useful nba guard grow fewer and fewer without the shooting. Is he going to be a lock down defender now? Is he going to average 10 assists per game?

And Kuzma is useless without the full squad. Ive watched him d up all types of players all year when the games mattered. We are just forgetting that he clamped Luka now?

[chonestown]

Still unfathomable to use a newly drafted rookie, youngest in the class, as an enticement for another team to take on the albatross of one Khris Middleton. What on Earth did Horst see in Kuzma to forfeit the right to see that potential play through? You can figure out 25 minutes a game from Midds. Sims/KPJ would have been sufficient enough.

I think all of us would take a do-over. Horst should be delivering my mail tomorrow.

Its really not that crazy. Teams trade late firsts to shed salary, it happens. Us picking AJ was not seen as a great move, and not only because we are win now. Hes a long shot. Then, he didnt exactly pop in the g league, just showed flashes. The fact that we were able to salvage first round value with him is great. That the Wizards valued him was a blessing. They are the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down.

Many here are currently being significantly influenced by him dunking in nba games while shooting 27% from 3 and i find that strange. We all knew he was an elite athlete. He needs to shoot and score efficiently and again that is a long shot. Our people were with him for months. With his athleticism, if they felt like he had a good chance at succeeding, he would be off the table. They obviously do not.

So we shed Khris's contract
We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important
And we have flexibility to improve the team this off-season in ways that were previously impossible

For a player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Look man, I don't know how you can call the Wizards "the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down" and not eviscerate the Bucks for their drafting and deadline foibles. Even when they do something right (AJ), they end up doing something wrong (AJ).

<strums dobro>
<whistles "The Circle Will Be Unbroken>
<mournful sounds echo yonder the hollers of Walker's Point>

[soxperry]

Still unfathomable to use a newly drafted rookie, youngest in the class, as an enticement for another team to take on the albatross of one Khris Middleton. What on Earth did Horst see in Kuzma to forfeit the right to see that potential play through? You can figure out 25 minutes a game from Midds. Sims/KPJ would have been sufficient enough.

I think all of us would take a do-over. Horst should be delivering my mail tomorrow.

Its really not that crazy. Teams trade late firsts to shed salary, it happens. Us picking AJ was not seen as a great move, and not only because we are win now. Hes a long shot. Then, he didnt exactly pop in the g league, just showed flashes. The fact that we were able to salvage first round value with him is great. That the Wizards valued him was a blessing. They are the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down.

Many here are currently being significantly influenced by him dunking in nba games while shooting 27% from 3 and i find that strange. We all knew he was an elite athlete. He needs to shoot and score efficiently and again that is a long shot. Our people were with him for months. With his athleticism, if they felt like he had a good chance at succeeding, he would be off the table. They obviously do not.

So we shed Khris's contract
We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important
And we have flexibility to improve the team this off-season in ways that were previously impossible

For

A player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Now we need to shed Kuzma's contract, a worse albatross. He's not an asset. He's already stopped trying on defense.

Lol

I admire how consistently wrong you are. Its truly a marvel.

[Matches Malone]

Still unfathomable to use a newly drafted rookie, youngest in the class, as an enticement for another team to take on the albatross of one Khris Middleton. What on Earth did Horst see in Kuzma to forfeit the right to see that potential play through? You can figure out 25 minutes a game from Midds. Sims/KPJ would have been sufficient enough.

I think all of us would take a do-over. Horst should be delivering my mail tomorrow.

Its really not that crazy. Teams trade late firsts to shed salary, it happens. Us picking AJ was not seen as a great move, and not only because we are win now. Hes a long shot. Then, he didnt exactly pop in the g league, just showed flashes. The fact that we were able to salvage first round value with him is great. That the Wizards valued him was a blessing. They are the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down.

Many here are currently being significantly influenced by him dunking in nba games while shooting 27% from 3 and i find that strange. We all knew he was an elite athlete. He needs to shoot and score efficiently and again that is a long shot. Our people were with him for months. With his athleticism, if they felt like he had a good chance at succeeding, he would be off the table. They obviously do not.

So we shed Khris's contract
We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important
And we have flexibility to improve the team this off-season in ways that were previously impossible

For

A player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

It always amazes me how people get so sold and convinced by a single highlight. Like are we supposed to just ignore that he went 4-13 in what was essentially a G-League game?

So what’s Kuzmas excuse for going 3-10 and getting benched for defense?

[Ron Swanson]

It's still a terrible trade and I'm not even really an AJ fan or believer. At the very least it's yet another tradeable asset that Horst flushed down the drain.

[soxperry]

Still unfathomable to use a newly drafted rookie, youngest in the class, as an enticement for another team to take on the albatross of one Khris Middleton. What on Earth did Horst see in Kuzma to forfeit the right to see that potential play through? You can figure out 25 minutes a game from Midds. Sims/KPJ would have been sufficient enough.

I think all of us would take a do-over. Horst should be delivering my mail tomorrow.

Its really not that crazy. Teams trade late firsts to shed salary, it happens. Us picking AJ was not seen as a great move, and not only because we are win now. Hes a long shot. Then, he didnt exactly pop in the g league, just showed flashes. The fact that we were able to salvage first round value with him is great. That the Wizards valued him was a blessing. They are the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down.

Many here are currently being significantly influenced by him dunking in nba games while shooting 27% from 3 and i find that strange. We all knew he was an elite athlete. He needs to shoot and score efficiently and again that is a long shot. Our people were with him for months. With his athleticism, if they felt like he had a good chance at succeeding, he would be off the table. They obviously do not.

So we shed Khris's contract
We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important
And we have flexibility to improve the team this off-season in ways that were previously impossible

For a player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Look man, I don't know how you can call the Wizards "the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down" and not eviscerate the Bucks for their drafting and deadline foibles. Even when they do something right (AJ), they end up doing something wrong (AJ).

<strums dobro>
<whistles "The Circle Will Be Unbroken>
<mournful sounds echo yonder the hollers of Walker's Point>

I would venture to guess that the majority of fans think their team sucks at drafting.

I can also never tell if youre being serious so ill just leave it at that

[Wonka]

We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important

A player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Both of these tell me that you aren’t watching either of these guys play. Kuzma again got benched last night due to his defense and AJ started and contributed to a team on which he has the highest net rating on since joining.

And I'm sorry but when is Kuzma going to turn this magical corner you keep going on about regarding how his defense SHOULD be important? Should be? It’s either he is impactful on that end or he isn’t. And he very plainly isn’t. He quit trying weeks ago and has been pouting. Noticeably. Hence the repeated benchings.

I dont watch Wizards games. Why would i do that? Hes a guard who is shooting 27% from 3. The avenues to being a useful nba guard grow fewer and fewer without the shooting. Is he going to be a lock down defender now? Is he going to average 10 assists per game?

And Kuzma is useless without the full squad. Ive watched him d up all types of players all year when the games mattered. We are just forgetting that he clamped Luka now?

Okay. So you’ve admitted you don’t watch him play and continue to reduce your argument down to one statistic. His three point shooting. Gotcha.

Yet, you won’t do any of that hand wringing for Kuzma. You won’t reduce HIS game down to his shooting percentages because you think it suits your argument. You make claims that you’ve been watching him all year when you just said you also don’t watch Wizard games. He’s been clamping down good players all year? Okay. Either you’re lying or willfully delusional. He played defense here in Milwaukee for two weeks, give or take.

In reality, you’re showing that you either don’t watch basketball, or aren’t able to differentiate good players from bad. Either one is pretty rough considering you’re so passionate about being wrong.

[chonestown]

Its really not that crazy. Teams trade late firsts to shed salary, it happens. Us picking AJ was not seen as a great move, and not only because we are win now. Hes a long shot. Then, he didnt exactly pop in the g league, just showed flashes. The fact that we were able to salvage first round value with him is great. That the Wizards valued him was a blessing. They are the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down.

Many here are currently being significantly influenced by him dunking in nba games while shooting 27% from 3 and i find that strange. We all knew he was an elite athlete. He needs to shoot and score efficiently and again that is a long shot. Our people were with him for months. With his athleticism, if they felt like he had a good chance at succeeding, he would be off the table. They obviously do not.

So we shed Khris's contract
We gain Kuzma's defense which should be very important
And we have flexibility to improve the team this off-season in ways that were previously impossible

For a player that is unlikely to make it, despite some fun dunks

Look man, I don't know how you can call the Wizards "the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down" and not eviscerate the Bucks for their drafting and deadline foibles. Even when they do something right (AJ), they end up doing something wrong (AJ).

<strums dobro>
<whistles "The Circle Will Be Unbroken>
<mournful sounds echo yonder the hollers of Walker's Point>

I would venture to guess that the majority of fans think their team sucks at drafting.

I can also never tell if youre being serious so ill just leave it at that

Venture on, amigo.

I am serious.

[BigO]

The idea that Kuzma is a great defender had its birth on this board.

His stats are pretty bad. He's shooting in the low 40%, his 3s are at 29% and his assist to turnover ratio is 1:1. His only positive is 6.5 rebounds a game. Oh, and he's shooting less than 70% on free throws.

His contract will be one the Bucks will have a hard time to get rid of. And all of his inefficiency was known before the trade.

[Be Here Now]

I'll admit Kuzma's speed and athleticism were a sight for sore eyes right after the trade. But I think midranger said it best in the trade thread itself: we traded a guy who just in last season's playoffs played better than Kuzma has at any point in his entire career. Add in the fact that we threw in the asset when it arguably should have been coming our way. Indefensible but so is the fact that Horst was still our gm going into this year.

I don't think Middleton would have lasted the entire playoffs, but there's at least a case to be made that we were a very good team with him playing 25 mpg. I was content just getting to the second round this year and having a couple fun series to watch. Now if I had to bet, I would set our playoff win over/under at 1.5. The offense is going to be so terrible when teams clamp down and start playing playoff D.

[BUCKnation]

How bad was Middleton's value that apparently we had to put AJ, rather than say Tyler Smith in the Kuzma deal?

[fan230]

Whom can we get trading Dame?
Can we get a player like a Herro?

Whom can we get trading Kuzma?

[BigO]

How bad was Middleton's value that apparently we had to put AJ, rather than say Tyler Smith in the Kuzma deal?

I said it many times beofore the trade that Middleton had no value to other teams, but did have value to the Bucks.

Some still hold to the delusion that the Heat would have taken KM in exchange for Butler.

[ShootingtheJ]

How bad was Middleton's value that apparently we had to put AJ, rather than say Tyler Smith in the Kuzma deal?

The Wizards weren't looking to veterans. They took Khris because they didn't mind adding a smart veteran.

[Ron Swanson]

I'm still baffled at how Kuzma was able to put up those kind of scoring numbers in Washington, even on the efficiency that he did (53-54% TS). Dude is the poster child for this era of inflated stats and might the be the fakest 20+ PPG guy I've ever seen.

[emunney]

Look man, I don't know how you can call the Wizards "the worst talent evaluators in the league, hands down" and not eviscerate the Bucks for their drafting and deadline foibles. Even when they do something right (AJ), they end up doing something wrong (AJ).

<strums dobro>
<whistles "The Circle Will Be Unbroken>
<mournful sounds echo yonder the hollers of Walker's Point>

I would venture to guess that the majority of fans think their team sucks at drafting.

I can also never tell if youre being serious so ill just leave it at that

Venture on, amigo.

I am serious.

I think Winger's doing a pretty good job on their rebuild, personally. Will take some time, but the guy has drafted some really promising players in the less than 2 years he's been on the job. Take away Sarr because he's the #2 pick (and I'm not big on him), and you still have Coulibaly, Kyshawn George, Bub, plus the trade for AJ and a 2-way hit on Champagnie. He got 2 of the highest IQ players in the league for a song because they're injury prone -- what could be better for a rebuilding team?

Haven't really taken a close look at it before but they're kind of crushing it, at least in principle. We'll see how it goes.