PGT: Blazers at Bucks

[paul]

Dooling is a worry. After looking good for much of the preseason he's been complete ass so far this season. Given that Jennings has already had a couple of poor games and likely will continue on that couple of good games : awful game ratio Dooling really needs to get his sh*t together. I know keeping Ridnour wasn't an option given the minutes situation but having Ridnour tonight would have made a MASSIVE difference, particularly with his uncanny ability last season of just getting us a bucket when we were on a dry spell.

I don't expect Dooling to be as good as Ridnour, but I don't expect him to be a liability either.

[ClassicJack]

Just back from the game.












Ugh.

[paulpressey25]

Paul nailed it. Ridnour.

The thing about Ridnour was that he was somehow able to command the bench bunch and keep them focused. Dooling comes in and the PG play goes in the toilet and the bench guys games as well.

And we don't have Ridnour to relief pitch on nights Jennings doesn't have it.

Unless Salmons, Bogut, Jennings, etc all really elevate their games, we may need to hope that the Nuggets rip it up and we can somehow use Redd's contract to get Billups.

This Ridnour loss is massive.

[tyland]

I still think we need to wait and see a little longer. I know there are concerning signs regarding Gooden/Salmons/Dooling/Ersan and to a lesser extent Maggette/Bogut/Jennings, but I think it is way too early to presume the worst. If we are still facing these issues 10 games into the season, then we need to hit the panic button.

I think Salmons will find he feet in the next few games and Ersan should find his shot sooner rather than later. Gooden is still a big question mark, could go either way at this point. Dooling is much of the same. I expect Bogut to improve as the season goes on and Jennings to do the same as Salmons and some of the other offensive weapons find their feet. I also think Maggette will improve as the season goes on, as he will continue to draw FT's and start taking smarter shots under the coaching staffs direction.

So, yes. There is some concern at this point. But let's not start writing the season off at this stage. Hopefully playing a legit Eastern Conference contender will wake up the team tomorrow.

[MajorDad]

I didn't see the game - just the box score and your comments afterwards. to be honest, i haven't seen any bucks games this year - just the box scores and your comments afterwards.

I know about the injuries to Bogut and Salmon and Maggette. Obviously it's hard for everybody to be on the same page when they didn't play much together during the preseason because of those injuries. but other teams also suffered the same fate of having their players miss portions of the preseason. Dwayne Wade missed a portion of the preseason, but the heat seem to be doing fine now.

So , my question. I'm curious. how many of these first 4 games were the bucks expected to win? my first guess would be the Bucks should have beat the twolves and bobcats. i wasn't expecting the bucks to beat New Orleans at New Orleans. and tonight's game was a toss-up. i expected the bucks to win at home, but they were playing a tough team.

so rather than being 2-2, the Bucks are 1-3. So they are 1 win away from where they should be. I was projecting the bucks to win 45-48 games. that number is still easily within reach. losing to Portland is not as bad as losing to Cleveland, Indiana or Detroit.

I'm going to with-hold judgement untill I see a healthy Salmon, and the Bucks play 20 games that include games against good and bad teams. if the Bucks can't beat teams like Cleveland, Detroit, and Indiana, then there is a problem. Looking at their first 20 games, it's a tough start and I would project an 8-12 record. if the bucks can somehow break even with a 10-10 mark after 20 games, I believe they will be well on their way to a 50 win season. if the bucks can't win 8 of their first 20 games, it will be a long season. and looking at their schedule winning 8 games will not be an easy task.

i see salmon as the key factor. a lot of fans from the other teams he's played for in the past have commented Salmon plays best when he's playing for a contract. well, now he has one, and he's coming off an injury and he's not in shape. A lot of basketball players are not in shape this year. a lot of basketball players seem to be suffering from dollarcontractitus - as in I got my money, so i don't need to be in shape. just ask Baron Davis and Antoine jamison.. i hope that's not the case. but it was true when Salmon was in Chicago and sacremento. As soon as he got his money, his game went South.

I will say it now - going 8-12 after the first 20 games is a realistic outlook for our Bucks. going 10-10 would be great. being better than .500 for our first 20 games is way too optimistic. those first 20 games include games against Boston, LA, miami, Denver, orlando, ATl, OKC, New orleans, and utah. Those will not be easy games to win. and add to that, we've already lost 3 games.,

I'm still expecting good things from this year's team. but I believe the first 20 games will paint a true picture of what the remainder of the year will be like. one thing is for sure. i doubt if the bucks get off to a slow start that they will NOT be like most NBA teams and start tanking the season away. the y will play to win as many games as possible even if it's only 37. Although it would be typical of the bucks' luck to end up with the top pick in the draft in a year where Duke's Singler or Purdue's Johnson would be the best players available to draft.

the bucks didn't look good tonight. I'll share my thoughts after 20 games.

[Fight the Tank]

After Bogut clanked those two free throws in the second quarter this team just went dead. We need to get Salmons going, Jennings needs to be a bit more aggressive trying to score and Bogut is going to neet to be able to make a 3 foot right handed shot sooner rather than later.

Maggette is what he is and we have him in the right role but the rest of the new guys look like they are unsure what to do. Jennings seems to be over passing trying to get them involved.

I also can't believe what has happened to Ersan. I would like to see a little less Brockman and maybe try Ers and Gooden out there together. Get some more scoring out there. Brockman probably shouldn't play unless its an emergency.

Not ready to panic at all but this was certainly an ugly one and something needs to change ASAP. I would take a cohesive loss tomorrow night.

[Scoops]

It's not Ridnour, although he would help, it's Salmons. My post after the Wolves game:

Didn't watch the game but looking at the box score Salmons was 3-8 with 3 turnovers in only 20 minutes. Maybe people forget but we were 24-28 without him last year which is on pace for 37 wins. After he was traded here he didn't come in and put up a solid 12-15 points a game. He averaged 20 within the flow of the offense and dropped 25+ more than a handful of times when we needed it.

Obviously he's not in game shape and we probably shouldn't expect him to be. But if he doesn't play close to as well as he did last year we are going to be in trouble. He's much more important to our success than people think.

2-14 tonight. Last year he would have at least matched Roy's production and maybe carried us to a win.

Not going to panac yet. 2 of our losses are to 3-0 and 4-1 teams from the West although you want to get the one at home. Lots of new pieces, lots of guys out of shape, some quarters not going our way when it comes to calls. This team might not start clicking until January and if it takes that long things are going to get really ugly before a second half push.

[Fight the Tank]

Re-read the Delfino trade thread if your looking for an example of ugly. I expect the pitchforks to come out early.

[emunney]

Man, Maggette played some preposterously bad D tonight, especially in the 2nd quarter. Then immediately scored 4 points as Skiles went to pull him. We can really use his scoring if he can get his act somewhat together on D. Matthews murdered him off the ball today.

Most of these guys just look out of sorts. Sucks that we have to work these things out now, but that's how it is. This is our preseason. Gotta get it together in a hurry.

[brewcrew9]

Horrid game tonight other than the first quarter. My friend who is a season ticket holder and I were trying to think on the way home of one positive from the game and we had a tough time finding one. Also wasnt very impressed with the Squad tonight particularly on two occasions. First on their "who are you" chant with Wesley Matthews at the line. He is probably the most well known Blazer at the arena tonight other than Brandon Roy just because he went to Marquette. As well as a "Defense!" chant with 14 seconds on the clock in the 4th, shot clock off and the game over. Quite humorous but come on guys.

[REDDzone]

Man, Maggette played some preposterously bad D tonight, especially in the 2nd quarter. Then immediately scored 4 points as Skiles went to pull him. We can really use his scoring if he can get his act somewhat together on D. Matthews murdered him off the ball today.

Yea, thinking back to the summer and all the praise I threw on Maggette, I REALLY underestimated how bad his defense can be.

[Prince12]

Horrid game tonight other than the first quarter. My friend who is a season ticket holder and I were trying to think on the way home of one positive from the game and we had a tough time finding one. Also wasnt very impressed with the Squad tonight particularly on two occasions. First on their "who are you" chant with Wesley Matthews at the line. He is probably the most well known Blazer at the arena tonight other than Brandon Roy just because he went to Marquette. As well as a "Defense!" chant with 14 seconds on the clock in the 4th, shot clock off and the game over. Quite humorous but come on guys.

thats pretty funny IMO haha considering there was hardly anyone there though they seemed a little quiet last year were a hell of a lot louder..missing that horn and drums and stuff?

[Seven11]

I hate to say it so early, but it looks like a trade (other than the obvious Michael Redd trade) is inevitable by the deadline. This team is just not going to cut it. I hope "THEY" get their act together soon. "THEY" have been disappointing thus far this season.

THEY= Brandon Jennings (kinda sorta), John Salmons, Ersan Ilyasova, Keyon Dooling

[Prince12]

Question for the guys on here that know a lot more about this then i do...

With the Gooden, Salmons and Maggette contracts what are our options with these?
Is there anyway of offloading these contracts without paying them out orr yeah basically once that contract is signed are we obliged to keep the player for the time unless we buy them out?

[FrieAaron]

I think at the moment it's just a perfect storm working against the Bucks right now. You don't want to use injuries and new players as an excuse but obviously it's going to be a learning process. On top of that they're going to be playing what I think we all acknowledged was a very hard opening schedule. New Orleans and Portland are a combined 7-1 now. Boston tomorrow is 3-1. The Wolves loss was really bad, but I think it's important they don't get too discouraged right now.

[old skool]

Back from the game. Will try to avoid repeating points already made by others.

The attendance was shocking. The upper bowl was maybe 10% filled. The lower bowl was maybe 45% filled. Very minor league.

The Blazers were ready to give up. They were tired and lifeless. Then the Bucks went cold and they saw a chance to take the game.

Gooden and Maggette are not the problem. They are the fifth or sixth best players on the team. They play like fifth or sixth best players. The problem is that there is no one on the team playing like a first, second or third best player. It is really hard to win in the NBA without a first, second or third best player.

I don't think Maggette deserves criticism for taking too many shots. For much of the second quarter he was the Bucks entire offense - throw the ball to Maggette on the wing and let him drive to get a shot. No one else was doing anything.

Gooden seemed to keep his head in the game and stayed enthusiastic throughout. He has some flaws but he was trying hard.

Brockman was not very productive. He fouled Roy with about a minute to go at the end of the first half. It was a senseless foul after Roy had secured a defensive rebound. Brockman was hustling but not thinking because Bogut had fouled just a few seconds earlier putting Portland in the bonus. Instead of making Portland work, Brockman gave them an easy two points. Hustling is not just being aggressive without thinking. Portland really built a rebounding edge when Brockman was in for Bogut.

Bogut seemed to be bothered by Portland's length and quickness. He was slow to get off shots. He was slow to rebounds, ending up back tapping a lot.

Portland seems to have a good combination of veterans and youth. They have a good mix.

Portland was very aggressive guarding the wings. They spent a lot of time holding Salmons, Maggette and Delfino. It really disrupted the Bucks offense. The refs were starting to call it some, but the Bucks let the Blazers and refs off the hook by shooting so poorly, and eventually giving up in frustration.

Jennings played like a slightly slower version of TJ Ford. No confidence in his shot, he motored around. His passing was worse than Ford's. Besides errant passes, he was throwing Farve-like bullets that no one would be expected to handle.

The Bucks have major holes at back up center and back up point guard.

sKiles did not throw in the towel with a 12 point deficit. I think that it was 18 points - maybe 86-68. He probably would have kept them in longer, but for the game in Boston tomorrow night.

oLd sKool

[unklchuk]

My view after tonight is that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me to try to figure out how good a team we have this year when the players don't know how good they are.

Bogut is an inspiring leader at times, when he's feeling it, but he's still quite insecure as a player, as a personality. Whatever Jennings will become, he's still a young man feeling his way irregularly - in the flow at times, not relevant at other times.

Salmons last year was a rock giving us confidence. No confidence there so far.

There's NO ONE with the confidence and leadership to take this team into battle and get them playing their best. So the team has a split personality: they think they're good; they feel inadequate. If they can't lose the doubt, they're not a 50 win team.

[AlwysDrearynMKE]

Salmons is really earning that contract, huh :/

[ReasonablySober]

Bogut's been a seemingly good defender. Has anyone else? I see a lot of effort out there, but it's not translating to stops.

[ReasonablySober]

Salmons is really earning that contract, huh :/

In my opinion he was the huge mistake this summer. I didn't like the signing then, I don't like it now. I hope like hell it's purely an issue of him not being in shape. If he can provide a consistent 15 ppg I'll be happy. But he looks awful right now.