Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

[Baddy Chuck]

But thus far he's shown to be a lousy finisher at the hoop, incapable of taking even college kids off the dribble, streakiness at best from outside

Wanna look at it in a bubble I think you could say all three things about Jabari, stats can pretty much back it up too.

[ReasonablySober]

But thus far he's shown to be a lousy finisher at the hoop, incapable of taking even college kids off the dribble, streakiness at best from outside

Wanna look at it in a bubble I think you could say all three things about Jabari.

Sure. I like his skill set quite a bit more, but I don't see the seamless transition to elite NBA scorer that most do, either.

[4hitter]

What about his game leads you to believe he's going to be a go-to scorer? Can we have that discussion? You're talking to someone who likes him enough to take him #2 in this draft, so I'm not some blind hater. I'm optimistic about him and his game.

But thus far he's shown to be a lousy finisher at the hoop, incapable of taking even college kids off the dribble, streakiness at best from outside, and a general lack of aggressiveness to his game offensively.

To say that he's going to be a go-to scorer early on is such an incredible leap. I'm just wondering what you're basing it on.

That's my reason for being for Parker ahead of Wiggins.. I just didn't see aggression or an alpha mentality, I saw passivity. People will blame the system in place at Kansas, but if he was a scorer by nature he would've found a way to at least be more aggressive. Having said that, I'd still be thrilled with him as our pick because I do see aspects of his game that Parker doesn't have namely his defensive prowess. To me, and I realize I'm in the minority here, Parker's scoring ability > Wiggins defensive ability.

[machu46]

I still wonder if Jabari or Wiggins will ever be at the point where they're a go to scorer. That's the one thing that makes me hesitate on Jabari. He's got the alpha dog/chucker kind of mentality... if he doesn't become an efficient scorer in the NBA, he would end up not really helping us much at all.

With Wiggins, I think there's a very good chance that he gets to the point where he can be the #2 scorer while providing great defense and effectively blending in with the team on offense as a #2 guy should.

[Baddy Chuck]

I don't buy into the whole "skill set" thing being a huge reason that Parker is going to translate better right away, or even at all. Did OJ Mayo translate better then Russell Westbrook? Did James Harden or Ricky Rubio translate better then Tyreke Evans or Blake Griffin right away? Greg Monroe or Evan Turner didn't translate better then guys like Favors, Wall, Cousins etc. Obviously there's definitely comparisons the other way as well (skills over physical tools translating), but I don't think you could ever say with any bit of certainty that the guy with skills are more likely to translate. Less skilled players with the physical tools outperform the more skilled, NBA ready players all the time.

[Sarry Landers]

I think we should take Jabari over Wiggins just because we already have our break starter and transition guy in Giannis now we need a true scorer and I think Jabari will be that from day 1 in the NBA. Plus we would have the defense around Jabari with Giannis, Larry, and Knight.

[Bernman]

Wanna look at it in a bubble I think you could say all three things about Jabari, stats can pretty much back it up too.

Stats don't really back it up. They are actually the lone, partial argument comparing them in those areas. The army of scouts have come to a different conclusion. Stats, with the holes every one has, are more there for when you can't see players frequently, or to counteract bias. But the scouts have seen them both frequently, and have no cause to be biased to one or another here. And they're saying if you draft Wiggins, it's off potential, because Parker was the significantly better player last year. And that's what the stats, in more comprehensive form rather than iso'ing ways you can compare them, back up.

[Baddy Chuck]

Wanna look at it in a bubble I think you could say all three things about Jabari, stats can pretty much back it up too.

Stats don't really back it up. They are actually the lone, partial argument comparing them in those areas. The army of scouts have come to a different conclusion. Stats, with the holes every one has, are more there for when you can't see players frequently, or to counteract bias. But the scouts have seen them both frequently, and have no cause to be biased to one or another here. And they're saying if you draft Wiggins, it's off potential, because Parker was the significantly better player last year. And that's what the stats, in more comprehensive form rather than iso'ing ways you can compare them, back up.

There is seriously no way you can look at game play as well as stats and say Parker was significantly more consistent with his three point shot or at the rim then Wiggins was, off the dribble play is certainly less subjective.

If Wiggins was "lousy" finishing at the rim, Parker was as well. If Wiggins was streaky from outside, Parker was as well. And from my personal opinion watching the games, as well as stats, Parker wasn't much (if at all) better at creating his own offense off the dribble either. Might've been "prettier", but I certainly don't think it was more effective.

[machu46]

The two things Jabari has in his repertoire now that Wiggins just flat out doesn't is the the post game and the pull-up jumper. Wiggins really struggled in those two areas, whereas those are two things Jabari did very well. Jabari might have been a better finisher as well. I'm not really sure. He definitely goes up stronger than Wiggins.

But I honestly believe Wiggins is probably a better spot-up shooter right now than Jabari, and the gap in their scoring abilities really isn't that large IMO. Jabari has more skills at the moment, but he needs those skills to keep up with Wiggins because of how incredibly athletic Wiggins is and how much easier that makes things for him.

[Baddy Chuck]

The two things Jabari has in his repertoire now that Wiggins just flat out doesn't is the the post game and the pull-up jumper. Wiggins really struggled in those two areas, whereas those are two things Jabari did very well. Jabari might have been a better finisher as well. I'm not really sure. He definitely goes up stronger than Wiggins.

I'll agree with this, besides the finishing part.

Wiggins Overall: 63.6%
Parker Overall: 62.7%
Wiggins Transition: 69%
Parker Transition: 68%
Wiggins Halfcourt: 60.4%
Parker Halfcourt: 60.9%
Wiggins Halfcourt unassisted: 52%
Parker Halfcourt unassisted: 44%

Don't really know how it can really be argued he was much better. If you do, it's much more of your eyes seeing what they want then anything else.

[WeekapaugGroove]

The two things Jabari has in his repertoire now that Wiggins just flat out doesn't is the the post game and the pull-up jumper. Wiggins really struggled in those two areas, whereas those are two things Jabari did very well. Jabari might have been a better finisher as well. I'm not really sure. He definitely goes up stronger than Wiggins.

But I honestly believe Wiggins is probably a better spot-up shooter right now than Jabari, and the gap in their scoring abilities really isn't that large IMO. Jabari has more skills at the moment, but he needs those skills to keep up with Wiggins because of how incredibly athletic Wiggins is and how much easier that makes things for him.

This is pretty much my thoughts on these 2.


I prefer wiggins but wouldn't be upset with any of the wiggins, Parker, Exum trio. Embiid is the only guy I would be terrified of and that's simply because if Cleveland doesn't take him 1 it's medical and at that point I want nothing to do with him at 2.

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[machu46]

The two things Jabari has in his repertoire now that Wiggins just flat out doesn't is the the post game and the pull-up jumper. Wiggins really struggled in those two areas, whereas those are two things Jabari did very well. Jabari might have been a better finisher as well. I'm not really sure. He definitely goes up stronger than Wiggins.

I'll agree with this, besides the finishing part.

Wiggins Overall: 63.6%
Parker Overall: 62.7%
Wiggins Transition: 69%
Parker Transition: 68%
Wiggins Halfcourt: 60.4%
Parker Halfcourt: 60.9%
Wiggins Halfcourt unassisted: 52%
Parker Halfcourt unassisted: 44%

Don't really know how it can really be argued he was much better. If you do, it's much more of your eyes seeing what they want then anything else.

I honestly wouldn't have guessed that either struggled finishing as much as they supposedly did based on the eye test just because I tend to remember the good more than the bad.

I remember Wiggins' seemingly just floating through the air to lay it in in ways that nobody else in the country is really capable of, and I remember seeing Jabari bulldoze his way through guys around the basket and finish with strong slams whenever possible.

The only time I really recall either one struggling finishing a lot was when Duke played Cuse the first time. Jabari must have gotten blocked 5 or 6 times. It was reminiscent of Cody Zeller against Syracuse in the tournament last year. He looked absolutely brutal that day, but even then, he had a couple really strong finishes in the second half.

But I'm with you for the most part. I don't think Jabari is the elite scorer at the next level that some make him out to be. I think he's going to struggle for a little while to adjust, and he'll eventually top out around a 20ish PPG kinda guy on a good team.

[SupremeHustle]

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[europa]

I think Embiid has passed Wiggins in the eyes of some is due to two factors primarily:

1. NBA people LOVE skilled big men, often to the point of (sometimes massively) over-rating them. Not saying Embiid is being over-rated (although I think the Hakeem comparisons are crazy), just that he's a skilled big men and NBA people can't stop themselves from tripping all over their drool when they see one.

2. Press' shiny new toy theory.

I also think that when Wiggins didn't go all Wilt/Lew on the college world, people wanted someone else to get all worked up about.

But I still don't think all those scouts who viewed him as the No. 1 pick for so long were wrong. I think the kid has a high ceiling and remains a legit No. 1 prospect. I just hope the Cavs keep buying the Embiid Love Train and ignore all that.

[randy84]

Remember when Parker was the #1 high school prospect?

http://www.cnnsi.com/vault/article/maga ... /index.htm

[blazza18]

Have we drafted Exum yet ?

[machu46]

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That's it. I'm changing my vote.

[suctionprints]

Ok you guys are going to think I'm crazy but I think Marcus Smart is going to end up being the best player in this draft. He's got brutal size and strength, great d, and underrated playmaking ability. Maybe his shooting isn't perfect but other than that he excels at pretty much every other aspect of the game. You see shooting improve in the NBA much more often than you see playmaking improve, to my eye. When Smart and Exum play one-on-one in my mind, Smart looks pretty unstoppable.

Anyway, none of that really matters since I'm sure the Bucks have the same top four as everyone else, I just don't quite get why Smart is projected where he is.

[Zeezprah]

^he can't shoot. point blank.

his ball handling is also kind of sketch and i think the dwyane wade comparisons are a slap in the face to wade who was 10x the player at marquette as smart at okc.

his "character" is also overrated too. i see him kind of being a punk in the nba. and it has nothing to do with the fan incident.

[Bernman]

I think Embiid has passed Wiggins in the eyes of some is due to two factors primarily:

1. NBA people LOVE skilled big men, often to the point of (sometimes massively) over-rating them. Not saying Embiid is being over-rated (although I think the Hakeem comparisons are crazy), just that he's a skilled big men and NBA people can't stop themselves from tripping all over their drool when they see one.

2. Press' shiny new toy theory.

I also think that when Wiggins didn't go all Wilt/Lew on the college world, people wanted someone else to get all worked up about.

But I still don't think all those scouts who viewed him as the No. 1 pick for so long were wrong. I think the kid has a high ceiling and remains a legit No. 1 prospect. I just hope the Cavs keep buying the Embiid Love Train and ignore all that.

As aforementioned, Wiggins and Embiid have played close to the same amount of college basketball. So Embiid is not much more of a shiny new toy.

And not only was Embiid perceived as a much better collegiate by the eye test, that was the case according to comprehensive, advanced metrics too. Embiid had an advanced statistical plus minus of 10.4. Wiggins' was 6.8. Embiid's PER was 28.6. Wiggins' was 21.6.

My theory about why many still think Wiggins is the top prospect is that they want to justify getting caught up in the preseason hype or are seeing him how they want due to his freakish athleticism.

But I hope the Cavs ignore all that, and draft Wiggins because of Embiid's minor to moderate injury concern.