Giannis Thread - 6 Days To Go

Sigra · Post #81 » by **Sigra** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:29 pm

yannisk wrote:I think we are mixing Giannis's contract extension and the flaws of his game. All this discussion would have a meaning if we were pondering if the Bucks should offer him an extension or if we were trying to find if we should offer him max money or an amount less than max and we were trying to find the fair value.

If the argument is that he has flaws in his game so he is not entitled to go to a better situation (in his mind) then this argument is very weak. If he thinks he will be better elsewhere and he knows that all teams would offer him max money does it matter if he is a bad shooter or he has bad bbiq?

if we believe that Bucks is the best situation for him, it's fine, but again it does not matter, does he think the same? can we convince him that this is the best situation for him? I think we tried to do that with the desperate Jrue signing and it had the opposite effect, the team was left with no assets so that is difficult to improve in the future. So is it good enough? the answer will come next playoffs

this is Giannis thread. not only about extension but everything about Giannis.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #82 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:32 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:Who do you guys think is the most likely to go full Draymond on Giannis if he doesn't extend or even address it all year and they have to deal with questions about it every damn day? Portis? Alex Lasry?? That would go over well.

they already traded that guy away in the jrue deal

ABucksFan · Post #83 » by **ABucksFan** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:37 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:Who do you guys think is the most likely to go full Draymond on Giannis if he doesn't extend or even address it all year and they have to deal with questions about it every damn day? Portis? Alex Lasry?? That would go over well.

they already traded that guy away in the jrue deal

George Hill would've had none of it :lol:

yannisk · Post #84 » by **yannisk** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:39 pm

Krispy Kreme wrote:What's the deal with the barber? Like Giannis is no longer needing his services?

Maybe he just got tired of the barber giving him the same cut that every other guy in the league has.

could it be that he wants to go to a team with a better barber?

yannisk · Post #85 » by **yannisk** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:41 pm

Sigra wrote:
yannisk wrote:I think we are mixing Giannis's contract extension and the flaws of his game. All this discussion would have a meaning if we were pondering if the Bucks should offer him an extension or if we were trying to find if we should offer him max money or an amount less than max and we were trying to find the fair value.

If the argument is that he has flaws in his game so he is not entitled to go to a better situation (in his mind) then this argument is very weak. If he thinks he will be better elsewhere and he knows that all teams would offer him max money does it matter if he is a bad shooter or he has bad bbiq?

if we believe that Bucks is the best situation for him, it's fine, but again it does not matter, does he think the same? can we convince him that this is the best situation for him? I think we tried to do that with the desperate Jrue signing and it had the opposite effect, the team was left with no assets so that is difficult to improve in the future. So is it good enough? the answer will come next playoffs

this is Giannis thread. not only about extension but everything about Giannis.

but the arguments are, "he did not play well against Miami how dares he not sign?"

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #86 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:41 pm

ABucksFan wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:Who do you guys think is the most likely to go full Draymond on Giannis if he doesn't extend or even address it all year and they have to deal with questions about it every damn day? Portis? Alex Lasry?? That would go over well.

they already traded that guy away in the jrue deal

George Hill would've had none of it

yep... of the guys left not a single vocal leader to call out his bull. he is the absolute leader on this team now and hes failing miserably at it already.

Cooleyo47 · Post #87 » by **Cooleyo47** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:43 pm

Lasry played along with the barber jab and had a coy smile at the end.

I think he's just keeping his cards close to his chest, for once.

emunney · Post #88 » by **emunney** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:43 pm

ABucksFan wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:Who do you guys think is the most likely to go full Draymond on Giannis if he doesn't extend or even address it all year and they have to deal with questions about it every damn day? Portis? Alex Lasry?? That would go over well.

they already traded that guy away in the jrue deal

George Hill would've had none of it

First guy who came to mind for me too.

greekbuck34 · Post #89 » by **greekbuck34** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:50 pm

Matches Malone wrote:

Read on Twitter

They actually have no idea still.

BucksRule18 · Post #90 » by **BucksRule18** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:51 pm

Fotis St wrote:I think its smart for Giannis to NOT sign the supermax.
He can get the exact same contract in summer , why rush it ? So this incompetent Org feels '"safe" ?
Anyway I think Giannis not signing maybe benefits the Bucks this season. I mean teams that are planning to sing him will hesitate to do trades mid-season ... for the hope to nail Giannis , which means theoritically they will not improve their roster adding a contract that will make it harder to nail Giannis in case he becomes available in summer

The flip side is that if Giannis does not sign with the Bucks this offseason, then other GM's will be like sharks smelling blood in the water. They can spend the next 7 months figuring out cap space to sign him as a free agent. Also, if Giannis and his family already have another destination planned for next year, I wouldn't be surprised if he took a small pay cut to sign a 1+1 deal with that team to fit under the salary cap. He doesn't seem to be motivated in maximizing his earnings at this point.

coolhandluke121 · Post #91 » by **coolhandluke121** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:51 pm

yannisk wrote:
Sigra wrote:
yannisk wrote:I think we are mixing Giannis's contract extension and the flaws of his game. All this discussion would have a meaning if we were pondering if the Bucks should offer him an extension or if we were trying to find if we should offer him max money or an amount less than max and we were trying to find the fair value.

If the argument is that he has flaws in his game so he is not entitled to go to a better situation (in his mind) then this argument is very weak. If he thinks he will be better elsewhere and he knows that all teams would offer him max money does it matter if he is a bad shooter or he has bad bbiq?

if we believe that Bucks is the best situation for him, it's fine, but again it does not matter, does he think the same? can we convince him that this is the best situation for him? I think we tried to do that with the desperate Jrue signing and it had the opposite effect, the team was left with no assets so that is difficult to improve in the future. So is it good enough? the answer will come next playoffs

this is Giannis thread. not only about extension but everything about Giannis.

but the arguments are, "he did not play well against Miami how dares he not sign?"

That's not the argument at all. There are legitimate, reasonable arguments about whether they should go for it one more year or trade him for the best offer they can get, and his play against Miami is more than enough reason to doubt whether playing out the year with the distraction of his contract looming over everyone's head really does give them a better chance of winning a title in the next 3 years than, say, trading him for Bam and Duncan Robinson. If he was as good in the playoffs as he is in the regular season, it would be a much easier choice, but he's not so it's totally relevant to criticize his performance against Miami.

There are also some people saying the franchise is totally dead and they may as well move to Vegas if Giannis doesn't extend. Pointing out Giannis's flaws is needed for perspective when people are acting like he's more important than the franchise itself. It's totally fair for true Bucks fans to push back hard on notions like that.

BucksRule18 · Post #92 » by **BucksRule18** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Read on Twitter

They actually have no idea still.

I think this is likely what's going on. Even if Giannis is leaning towards not signing the supermax deal this offseason, he may not want to tell the Bucks his final decision until the regular season starts. This wait may also give the impression that he was spending days and nights thinking long and hard about his decision, vs. "you can take that contract and shove it."

BucksRule18 · Post #93 » by **BucksRule18** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:56 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
yannisk wrote:
Sigra wrote:
this is Giannis thread. not only about extension but everything about Giannis.

but the arguments are, "he did not play well against Miami how dares he not sign?"

That's not the argument at all. There are legitimate, reasonable arguments about whether they should go for it one more year or trade him for the best offer they can get, and his play against Miami is more than enough reason to doubt whether playing out the year with the distraction of his contract looming over everyone's head really does give them a better chance of winning a title in the next 3 years than, say, trading him for Bam and Duncan Robinson. If he was as good in the playoffs as he is in the regular season, it would be a much easier choice, but he's not so it's totally relevant to criticize his performance against Miami.

There are also some people saying the franchise is totally dead and they may as well move to Vegas if Giannis doesn't extend. Pointing out Giannis's flaws is needed for perspective when people are acting like he's more important than the franchise itself. It's totally fair for true Bucks fans to push back hard on notions like that.

Agree with you 100%.

DingleJerry · Post #94 » by **DingleJerry** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:59 pm

Obviously it's hyperbole and not going to happen with the new stadium. But if he were to leave it's really at the point where if the NBA refuses to do anything about this problem of making the small markets essentially feeder teams for the rest of the league then they might as well just be upfront about it and move teams out of these cities. Teams like MKE MN Indy might as well get moved to places like Vegas, San Diego, Seattle, Tampa, etc. I'd still watch the games as I still love the game and it's entertaining. And yes I know its hyperbole and still financially beneficial for the city/state to have the team so no way they'd want them to leave. I'm just saying the games itself.

Long story short, this is a structural problem for the league long term as this keeps happening over and over and they need to do something about it and it won't be easy. Just like MLB eventually has to take another big step to evening out revenues. The NFL is sitting there as a pretty much ideal system to model after which leads to parity and all teams having an equal footing/chance.

Wooderson · Post #95 » by **Wooderson** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:00 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Fotis St wrote:I think its smart for Giannis to NOT sign the supermax.
He can get the exact same contract in summer , why rush it ? So this incompetent Org feels '"safe" ?
Anyway I think Giannis not signing maybe benefits the Bucks this season. I mean teams that are planning to sing him will hesitate to do trades mid-season ... for the hope to nail Giannis , which means theoritically they will not improve their roster adding a contract that will make it harder to nail Giannis in case he becomes available in summer

if giannis doesnt sign it very likely means he has his next spot picked out and that assumption would mean his next team already knows more than we do at this point. obviously that can change but the likelihood its back here is virtually nil.

so practically....giannis not signing means the end of his bucks era and that includes this season. not only does it mean our championship window is closed but it means we have to watch this seasons trainwreck in slow motion as a cherry on top of it

its why going all in with our sunk cost is moronic and playing out the season as his farewell tour being the most shortsighted painful memory i might ever have a bucks fan

If the first part is true no team is going to give up big assets to get him. Not the team he's going to, and obviously not some other team. Meaning there's way less of a reason to deal him and give up a chance at a title, even if you think it's lower because he's on the way out. There's no AD package available. And Giannis wants to be an ATG, he's going to go hard 100% regardless of if he knows he's leaving because he realizes how critical every postseason is to his resume.

Shaffty · Post #96 » by **Shaffty** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:02 pm

BucksRule18 wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:

Read on Twitter

They actually have no idea still.

I think this is likely what's going on. Even if Giannis is leaning towards not signing the supermax deal this offseason, he may not want to tell the Bucks his final decision until the regular season starts. This wait may also give the impression that he was spending days and nights thinking long and hard about his decision, vs. "you can take that contract and shove it."

or hes taking his time to decide out of respect for his family who want him to leave before ultimately doing what he wants and staying. (this is speculation)

LUKE23 · Post #97 » by **LUKE23** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:07 pm

If Giannis is staying he's signing by 12/21. There is no way he is willing to endure the season-long contract questions that will be put upon him, his teammates, management, and ownership unless he really wants out. I have never bought that it is as simple as, "he can just sign the same deal next offseason". That's technically true, but comes with some very large caveats on how it impacts this season, and what the organization and Giannis has to go through even to get to July.

jimmybones · Post #98 » by **jimmybones** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:13 pm

BuckFan25226 wrote:
Jimmmycrackcorn wrote:What is this talk about the owners flying in today? Where was this said?

Page 93 - Shafty posted a flight plan which presumably is indicating that Lasry and/or Edens are flying in this evening to deal with Giannis' contract.

My hope is that Shafty wouldn't post a random flight plan unless it had significance. PP seems to also have additional detail about it due to his sudden optimism of something getting done soon.

Voodoo is still not worried.

MTC....

MTC is always the highlight of any post regardless of other content.

MTC...

coolhandluke121 · Post #99 » by **coolhandluke121** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:17 pm

Wooderson wrote:
If the first part is true no team is going to give up big assets to get him. Not the team he's going to, and obviously not some other team. Meaning there's way less of a reason to deal him and give up a chance at a title, even if you think it's lower because he's on the way out. There's no AD package available. And Giannis wants to be an ATG, he's going to go hard 100% regardless of if he knows he's leaving because he realizes how critical every postseason is to his resume.

You contradict yourself by saying no team would give up assets for him, including the team he's going to, and then mentioning Anthony Davis. AD is literally the textbook example of why contenders ARE willing to give up great trade packages for guys they could just sign outright one year later, so I'm not sure how you can simultaneously be aware of what happened with AD and argue that Giannis's next team wouldn't give up something of value to acquire him.

LAL could have easily had the cap space to sign Davis this year, but they wanted to contend last season too and look what it got them. Lebron was not getting any younger and they made the right call. You also can't forget how important Bird Rights are for convincing guys to stay because you can pay them more. Trading for him allows a team to have his Bird Rights and give them better odds of re-signing them. Not making the deal allows some other contender to get him for a year with a lowball trade offer and, if they have a really good year as expected, makes them a huge threat to persuade him to stay instead of signing with you even if that's the original plan.

There are plenty of good reasons for Miami to offer Bam+ for Giannis if they think that's where he wants to go. Butler is not young by NBA standards anymore and Bam is not a true franchise player, though I like him a lot. Even if Giannis wants to go to Miami and has even told Riley exactly that, Riley can't count on something changing this year and can't count on it working out if he doesn't bid for Giannis this year. If he lets some other team like LAC or Portland acquire Giannis for a lowball offer and they have a great year, his chances of signing Giannis outright next summer could change dramatically without his Bird Rights.

These are the nuances you are overlooking with blanket statements about nobody trading anything of value for Giannis, which is patently false.

jimmybones · Post #100 » by **jimmybones** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:22 pm

PG Graveyard wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
aboveAverage wrote:Any info you can share with us PP?

There is just a rumor running in the deep corners of the interwebs that the owners will be meeting and finalizing all of this over the next 24-48 hours. So, until something happens one way or the other, I’m going to choose to be optimistic.

What deep corners do you speak of?

yeah that was ominous. PP illuminati confirmed