Incorrect assumption about Kohl & "lame duck"?

[Sideways]

Since I have no personal knowledge on who did what and who proposed this trade and who nixed what; I will gladly blame them both.

I read in a story recently (I'm sorry, I can't remember specifics) that stated that this current bucks team was LH's team, the team he wanted and put together. PUKE!

It is also quite common knowledge (as GAD referred to) that Kohl is a meddlesome owner who doesn't allow a GM to do the job. PUKE AGAIN!

I'll blame the entire front office for this debacle, I'm not going to argue what I don't personally know; there is way more than enough blame to go around....

Last point, I think that the senator will continue to hamstring LH this season because if he starts feeling pressure, he will need someone to throw under the bus and take the heat off himself! After all, he is a politician........

Exactly! This was the point I was trying to make. The way the Buck's are and have been run you cannot seperate Kohl from Harris. Getting rid of just Harris will not change how the Bucks are run. The next person in will be working under the same set of rules. You can't tell me that that Kohl is a part time control freak. That he OK'ed 1 deal, but not another. This team is a mess.

I think that Harris needs to go, but I also think that as long as Kohl wants to micromanage his GM's the team will always be a mess.

If Kohl can't trust his people enough to let them do their jobs then why bother to pay their salary. He should just save the money and do it himself.

[LUKE23]

It's hard to judge Harris without fully knowning the extent of Kohl's control, and all of the exact deals Harris wasn't allowed to do that were on the table because of it. Judging solely on what has transpired, I would break it down like this:

Good Moves:

1. Drafting Bogut (people will argue about Paul and Deron here, but the reality is Bogut is now playing like a #1 pick, and we had Ford and Williams at the time of the draft, considering how hard it is to find good bigs, can't fault him here).

2. Drafting Yi: easily the best player there at 6 in this past draft

3. Drafting Sessions: obviously he hasn't played a game in the NBA yet, but judging by his dominance in the NBDL, it appears he will at least be a solid NBA PG.

4. Signing Mo Williams to his original 3 year/5M deal. Got a steal here, in my opinion.

5. Re-signing Redd. Now, I know most will disagree here, but had we let Redd get away I think it would have sent a terrible message about the Bucks being able to retain their own talent.

6. Re-signing Mo Williams. Some will argue here as well, but we've already hashed out that Mo is at least an average starting PG and is making around league average.

7. Signing Ruben. Guy played very well for us given his cost.

Poor Moves:

1. Trading a 2nd round pick for Markota. This is obviously self-explanatory.

2. Trading Mason and a 1st for Magloire. This one looked great when it first happened, but Magloire was very average here and we ended up giving up I believe the #9 overall pick as well, while Mason had two solid years in NO.

3. Signing Bobby Simmons to a 9M/year deal. Another one that looked great at the time, but has not panned out. Simmons is in the bottom third of starting SF's as of right now.

4. Signing Gadzuric to a 6 year/36M deal. No explanation needed.

5. Signing Etan Thomas to his ridiculous offer sheet. Thankfully this was matched, but it was a move of desperation.

6. Matching Bell's offer sheet. Another one that will probably be debated, but given Bell's disgruntled behavior and the length of the deal, probably should have let him just walk to Miami.

7. Magloire for Blake. Not enough value in this trade.



Jury is still out on:

1. CV for Ford. CV has been very inconsistent, but Ford might never play basketball again. Will have to wait for another few years on this one I'm afraid.

I'm sure I'm missing some. I guess my point is that I'd rank LH as an average GM in his tenure. He could have been a good one had Kohl not held him back but we'll never know. That Boozer deal not going through could be the difference between us talking about him being fired, and us talking about a 45-50 win team. Redd/Boozer/Bogut core? Yikes.

[trwi7]

I believe the #9 overall pick as well, while Mason had two solid years in NO.

It was something like the 15th pick which was used on Cedric Simmons.

[Debit One]

I don't know how to go about judging LH as I dont' know what moves were forced on him, and which that he wanted to make were vetoed.

Given the dysfunction of the Bucks front office, only those truly on the inside know.

[midranger]

Drafting TJ Ford was good.

Getting Charlie Bell out of Europa was good.

Several smaller moves were very astute. Damon Jones, Brian Skinner x 2, and then not re-upping those guys when they wanted a payday. Ivey is a decent enough backup for the minimum.

2nd rounder for Zaza was good.

There were a lot of moves that have ended neutrally. Guys like Mike James, Ruben Patterson, Blake/then Boykins, Des Mason, Jake Voskuhl. That didn't have a major impact either way, and were mainly to fill needs.

[Sideways]

"I'm sure I'm missing some. I guess my point is that I'd rank LH as an average GM in his tenure. He could have been a good one had Kohl not held him back but we'll never know. That Boozer deal not going through could be the difference between us talking about him being fired, and us talking about a 45-50 win team. Redd/Boozer/Bogut core? Yikes."


Couldn't have said it better myself.

If the Boozer trade goes down I bet alot of us are talking about how good our GM is and that Kohl should give him a new contract before someone else does.

[midranger]

"I'm sure I'm missing some. I guess my point is that I'd rank LH as an average GM in his tenure. He could have been a good one had Kohl not held him back but we'll never know. That Boozer deal not going through could be the difference between us talking about him being fired, and us talking about a 45-50 win team. Redd/Boozer/Bogut core? Yikes."


Couldn't have said it better myself.

If the Boozer trade goes down I bet alot of us are talking about how good our GM is and that Kohl should give him a new contract before someone else does.

This is it exactly. All the second rounders and scrub for scrub trades don't matter had we landed Boozer.

Bogut - Boozer - Redd - TJ plus Simmons, Bell, and whatever draft pick we ended up with last year. I think everyone is humming a different tune.

[midranger]

Isn't Babcock responsible for the 2nd rounders anyway?

[Sideways]

Isn't Babcock responsible for the 2nd rounders anyway?

If he was he would never admit it. At least not on the Pro Hoops show. (that would be to interesting)

[Sigra]

The Welsh trade was a gigantic mistake.

[th87]

Let's say Brett Favre had his upper right arm tied to his body and could only use his forearm to make throws.

A europa-equivalent would say something like, "Well, I understand his arm is tied to his body, but he ultimately is responsible for his throws."

[midranger]

Let's say Brett Favre had his upper right arm tied to his body and could only use his forearm to make throws.

A europa-equivalent would say something like, "Well, I understand his arm is tied to his body, but he ultimately is responsible for his throws."

Well, what throws has he made in the past two drives that have clearly improved his team?

I'm waiting.

[bigzy]

Your question has been answered. The truth is, that he has not made a deal large enough to be considered a team changing decision (either positively or negatively) other than CV for TJ in which his hand was forced. He did obtain two starters and 2 backups this summer who are better than the guys they sent to the bench, so there you go.

What moves has Harris made to be considered an "Atrocious GM?"

I'm waiting.

If he has obtained two starters and 2 back ups that are better than the guys he sent to the bench are you saying the current record is the result totally of poor coaching?? Amazing how everything always goes to coaching in MIlwaukee, maybe Harris likes everyone to believe he makes no decisions, after all he is the teflon man.

[midranger]

bigzy. Giving insanity a name since 2008.

[bigzy]

bigzy. Giving insanity a name since 2008.

Mr. harris, I mean midranger, it must be touggh defending your record. YOu took shots often at Stotts record and obviously he didn't pick the players. If you are to be consistant then Harris has to be judged on his record.

[midranger]

Since 2008.

[th87]

-= original quote snipped =-



Well, what throws has he made in the past two drives that have clearly improved his team?

I'm waiting.

Really though, the spin zone in here regarding some choice subjects is enough to cause a tornado. Enveloping O'Reilly even.

We all know that FBF can't stand Harris, because of some personal conflict, if I remember correctly. This has been established in our JS days. So why put so much stock in his appraisal, and ignore knowledgeable GAD's appraisal, and the appraisal of his NBA colleagues?

[bigzy]

Since 2008.

Can't address why he shouldn't be held accountable for his record??

[midranger]

-= original quote snipped =-



Can't address why he shouldn't be held accountable for his record??

And could be and probably will be. Should he? Well, was he ever allowed to do his job? I don't know to what extent that question answers yes.

Stotts was the coach, his job was to coach the players the team provided him. How good of a job did he do? Probably better than most of us thought. However, he was allowed to do it. Kohl wasn't calling plays in the TOs. Kohl wasn't running a guard oriented offense to the potential detriment to our #1 pick's development, etc.... Whatever. As the season wore on last year, I realized that the talent simply wasn't there and became less critical of Stotts for not winning. However, I still found him completely uninspiring as a coach.

[trwi7]

-= original quote snipped =-



Can't address why he shouldn't be held accountable for his record??

Reading this thread would be a good reason to find out why. Everything goes through Kohl and his cronies. Do you think this team would be better with Boozer or Marion?