Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[ShootingtheJ]

Still unfathomable to use a newly drafted rookie, youngest in the class, as an enticement for another team to take on the albatross of one Khris Middleton. What on Earth did Horst see in Kuzma to forfeit the right to see that potential play through? You can figure out 25 minutes a game from Midds. Sims/KPJ would have been sufficient enough.

I think all of us would take a do-over. Horst should be delivering my mail tomorrow.

The obvious move was moving Dame , to add useful player/players, while getting under the 2nd apron.

I get that was important to get under the second apron. Most say now that Dame is (probably) out for the year it made more sense to keep Middleton. I disagree, with Dame being out it makes more sense to think about the offseason and get under the second apron.

But I have to believe there was a way to do it, even if it meant taking on a player worse than Kuzma, without giving up AJJ.

[fan230]

How bad was Middleton's value that apparently we had to put AJ, rather than say Tyler Smith in the Kuzma deal?

Wizards apparently wouldn’t do the deal without getting AJ Johnson. I wouldn’t have done the Khris Johnson deal at all whatsoever, then and now. It has ruined the Bucks’ current roster dramatically and has worsened prospects for the immediate future also. How stupid could we get?

To get under the second apron, I think, not sure though, that a Pat C trade was what was needed. If true (can someone confirm if that is true or not?), we even more should have done just that.

On a different note, there has been a strange reluctance of the Bucks to move Pat C to any non Milwaukee location.

[emunney]

How bad was Middleton's value that apparently we had to put AJ, rather than say Tyler Smith in the Kuzma deal?

I said it many times beofore the trade that Middleton had no value to other teams, but did have value to the Bucks.

Some still hold to the delusion that the Heat would have taken KM in exchange for Butler.

Fully agree(d) with you, and this to me was the biggest recommendation for not trading him. Not even including sentimentality, his *basketball* relationship with Giannis was 2nd to none. That we had to add value -- *any* value -- to him to get Kuzma points to multiple failures in the decision-making process on this. If AJ Johnson hits, you can add an improper evaluation of him to the ledger.

Like I've said before, now it's up to the people who made this decision to justify it with whatever cockamamie scheme they've got cooked up with this flexibility. I'm not sure there is/was a plan, though -- just fear that triggering all the second apron stuff would have been a death sentence.

[Matches Malone]

Since some kept bringing up AJJ's shooting, here's the last six games compared to Kuzma.

Kyle Kuzma: 14.8 points, 5.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists on 42.5/27.8/68.8 shooting.

AJ Johnson: 12 points, 3.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists on 47.8/36.8/81.8 shooting.

[Wonka]

Since some kept bringing up AJJ's shooting, here's the last six games compared to Kuzma.

Kyle Kuzma: 14.8 points, 5.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists on 42.5/27.8/68.8 shooting.

AJ Johnson: 12 points, 3.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists on 47.8/36.8/81.8 shooting.

Shh. That doesn't fit the narrative of those who watch either player

[BUCKnation]

I'm still baffled at how Kuzma was able to put up those kind of scoring numbers in Washington, even on the efficiency that he did (53-54% TS). Dude is the poster child for this era of inflated stats and might the be the fakest 20+ PPG guy I've ever seen.

As someone who had him on my fantasy team, I'm wondering the same. The dude was constantly putting up 25/10 games at points over the last few years. I don't see any consistency to his game other than some nice drives when he's actually controlled.

[German Athens]

Y’all remember that offensive foul called against Eric Bledsoe when he stuck his butt out in midair to shield the defender while attempting a layup?

[emunney]

Since some kept bringing up AJJ's shooting, here's the last six games compared to Kuzma.

Kyle Kuzma: 14.8 points, 5.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists on 42.5/27.8/68.8 shooting.

AJ Johnson: 12 points, 3.6 rebounds, 3.8 assists on 47.8/36.8/81.8 shooting.

Yes, but the Wizards are 1-5 in those games, while the Bucks are 2-4 feast on that

[Bernman]

Nobody can say what Khris'/AJJ's value was relative to Kuz when Horst is the one trading him. He gets fleeced in deals. And Khris was traded to a team where he had negative on-court value, when it would have been at least moderately positive on a contender. Also, nobody put a gun to our head to trade Khris, let alone AJJ.

If we wanted to kick the tires on Kuz, to see if he could return to career norms (consistently 54's ts, 34 3), or better w/ superior looks (56+, 37 3), that could have been done for a clearance, or w/ an asset attached from the Wiz seemingly. He was posting a ts % under 49 & making 20m+. To give up a good player for you, who's on a shorter contract, and a solid high upside prospect, is insane.

Unfortunately, unlike KPJ, we got virtually the same player he was this season on the prior team. And there was more reason for Kuz to revert or be better than that, cuz the prior team KPJ was on won most of their games. It's also come w/ Kuz not altering his usage much of the time. Half the time it seems he gets it in that regard, & can manage to be solid. The other half of the time he shoots us out of games. The lows are lower than the highs are highs. Someone needs to get thru to him his job is to be modest offensively, play d, & board. Otherwise he'll end up in China.

[WiscoKing13]

It's still a terrible trade and I'm not even really an AJ fan or believer. At the very least it's yet another tradeable asset that Horst flushed down the drain.

In a vacuum. Wiz would/did love to pay more salary in 2025 summer to get off Kuz money in 2026 summer. They achieved that with the Middleton/Kuz swap.

In a vacuum the Bucks needed a 3rd player who was likelier to stay on the court this year and next in the playoffs.

Now why would we be so pressured to downgrade from Kris to Kuzma? My guess ownership said we had to cut salary. Ala why the Wiz FO smartly stood their ground and said you had to put AJ in the deal. Horst basically had no choice at that point but to go through on the deal.

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[CharityStripe34]

Nobody can say what Khris'/AJJ's value was relative to Kuz when Horst is the one trading him. He gets fleeced in deals. And Khris was traded to a team where he had negative on-court value, when it would have been at least moderately positive on a contender. Also, nobody put a gun to our head to trade Khris, let alone AJJ.

If we wanted to kick the tires on Kuz, to see if he could return to career norms (consistently 54's ts), or better w/ superior looks (56+), that could have been done for a clearance, or w/ an asset attached from the Wiz seemingly. He was posting a ts % under 49 & making 20m+. To give up a good player for you, who's on a shorter contract, and a solid high upside prospect, is insane.

Unfortunately, unlike KPJ, we got virtually the same player he was this season on the prior team. And there was more reason for Kuz to revert or be better than that, cuz the prior team KPJ was on won most of their games. It's also come w/ Kuz not altering his usage much of the time. Half the time it seems he gets it in that regard, & can manage to be solid. The other half of the time he shoots us out of games. The lows are lower than the highs are highs. Someone needs to get thru to him his job is to be modest offensively, play d, & board. Otherwise he'll end up in China.

'"

For his athletic gifts, size and quickness, he is brutal finishing near the rim with any sort of resistance around him.

[Ron Swanson]

Nobody can say what Khris'/AJJ's value was relative to Kuz when Horst is the one trading him. He gets fleeced in deals.

This, I'm not buying this idea that this trade was the end-all indictment on Khris having this massive negative value given ol' Horsty boy's track record. The Kuzma rumors going back to the 2024 trade deadline support the notion that we (Doc/Horst) identified him as a player worth pursuing months ago. There were other (re: better) options here.

[Bernman]

For his athletic gifts, size and quickness, he is brutal finishing near the rim with any sort of resistance around him.

He shot 60% & 59% at the rim the last 2 seasons. He's down to 54 this one. He came in fat & hasn't totally shed that is my theory.

[emunney]

For his athletic gifts, size and quickness, he is brutal finishing near the rim with any sort of resistance around him.

He shot 60% & 59% at the rim the last 2 seasons. He's down to 54 this one. He came in fat & hasn't totally shed that is my theory.

Not sure he was talking about Kuz but even 60% is pretty bad. Probably not many worse at his height. 54% is just ridiculous, getting into Brandon Jennings territory.

[Matches Malone]

I wish we could be a fly on the wall to hear the other deals (if there were any) that Horst passed up to get under the second apron. That was clearly their objective, and they didn't even care that they were taking back a net-negative player in Kuzma. We just have to hope now that they have a good plan going into the off-season now that they can maneuver around a little bit easier. I don't have much faith though.

[WeMajor34]

I have been a Bobby skeptic ever since last season. His fit with Dame is far worse than his fit was with Jrue. We needed backup big scoring in 2021-2023. We still do need backup big/bench scoring (like any other team), but his value to the team has dropped with Dame on the roster. Which isn't necessarily Bobby's fault, because he's never been a defensive-minded big who does the little things.

We certainly need his bench scoring now, and I'm really interested to see how he looks post suspension. Whether or not you're a Bobby skeptic, he'll give this team a shot in the arm, especially in the first round. Depending on how you size up the roster, he very well might be our 3rd-4th best player (Giannis-Brook-Trent?), without Dame of course.

I'm rooting for the guy and I hope he comes back hungry. Everyone's milage varies around Kuzma, KPJ, and Sims, but Bobby really is a difference maker (in a first round series) if he keeps his head on straight, is efficient on offense, and grabs boards. His limitations are apparent but he'll be better than whatever Kuzma's been.

In another wasted season, that's at least one thing to look forward to.

[Bernman]

Not sure he was talking about Kuz but even 60% is pretty bad. Probably not many worse at his height. 54% is just ridiculous, getting into Brandon Jennings territory.

It's Bobby #'s. His on the same website is 58, 60, 61.

It's much better than Prince, who's near the same height. 51% this yr, 55 last.

Khris shot 57% the last 2 yrs.

They have Kuz' 60% season as top 37%, and 59 as top 40%. So by their metric he was a better than average "at the rim" finisher, not factoring in height. And good for our similarly heighted players recently. I'd take a return to form in that department.

I think on 3's we should be able to expect mid 30's %-wise over time, especially while Giannis and/or Dame are around. Just a question if we ever get there on this year's form. That's in part why it would be wrong to sell low, even if he never gets satisfactorily high. Mind you, the Wizards thought they deserved asset(s) for Kuz the prior season, and there was a Mavs' deal lined up, but he nixed it.

[TroyD92]

So why did Horst trade AJ Johnson? For Kyle Kuzma?

[SirChurros]

A lot of guys clearly aren’t even watching this kid play but are box score watching and think that counts. You have nothing to say about any of the intangibles or genuinely impressive parts of his game, nothing to say about the gravity he’s creating or the drive and kick looks he’s allowing guys on the Wizards to feast on. That’s why they are playing him. But because you look at a box score, you excuse our poor trade because of a 19 year old rookies lack of efficiency thus far. None of those “arguments” excuse what happened with that trade and what is happening with AJ Johnson. Rookies have good games and bad games. It’s about the potential. His potential is off the chart positionally, and unlike Kuzma, he plays with pace and intelligence.

The Wizards are playing him because they suck ass. No other reason, really.

[TroyD92]

Horst is one of the worst gm's in the league and has been for a while. Can't wait to get Doc up there. I'm sure it'll go well.