Giannis SIGNS

[Rstuedes24]

So you really are saying that it would have been ok to have a lesser team with fewer assets spent because Giannis would have been happy and re-signed. Interesting. Again that's a carbon copy of what transpired in Cleveland leading up to Lebron bailing on them after all of his preferred acquisitions left them with a garbage roster around him.

Everyone saying that would be the same people complaining about if Giannis left we didn’t surround him with enough talent this year

[jimmybones]

It's good to hear that they tried to keep Hill all along. It shows they know what kind of intangibles they need on the team, which suggests they will keep trying to improve in that regard. I firmly believe multiple teams would love to add Hill.

On the other hand, this shows that NOP knew the Bucks were desperate and bent them over a barrel. Disappointing. Even if you're dead set on Jrue, don't let them know it. Play it off like you love Bogdan or Oladipo too. Act like you think the bubble was kind of a fluke and you still like your team. Portray utmost confidence that Giannis will extend regardless. At some point you have to have some dignity in negotiations and explain to Giannis that you have to call another team's bluff sometimes. I think NOP would have settled for less eventually.

I like your posts Luke but this part is kinda absurd to assume we know they didn't do all that and more. We overpaid, we knew we overpaid. We have no clue what went into negotiations or how much hardball NO was playing.

[humanrefutation]

I think it's reasonable to consider whether the Bucks could have made a better move than the Holiday one. For example, they could have almost certainly kept Hill and made a S&T move for Bogdan that wouldn't have costed as much, or they could have saved their assets and waited to pounce on a Harden or a Beal.

It was clearly an overpay for Holiday, and my guess is that they made that deal thinking they were going to get Bogdan, too; I'm not sure if they would have agreed to give up all of that for Holiday if they knew the Bogdan deal wasn't done - the either/or scenario would have been interesting for them to consider. If they made the move for Bogdan and passed on Holiday, would that have been enough for Giannis to re-sign?

[BucksFanSD]

Jrue happened to be the big star available on the market, and he happened to play the position we wanted to upgrade. He also likely happens to sign with us next off season. We also happened to be showing Giannis we were serious about playoff winning.

It just lined up and this was the market price to get this guy.

[emunney]

The crucial missing info for me is what other teams were offering for Jrue.

[jeeves123]

No joke, very happy for you guys. Now you need to get a coach that knows how to make adjustments and plays his best guys more minutes in the playoffs.

[BucksFanSD]

The crucial missing info for me is what other teams were offering for Jrue.

Boston reportedly offered Hayward plus their 3 1st rounders this year (ended up being Nesmith, Bane, Pritchard).

I don't think we overpaid (Giannis is signed long term) and we don't know what other teams offered.

[Mihai]

Yeah, I don't want a Top 5 guy and perennial MVP on my team either. It would suck to have 2 top 5 guys on the same team.

If Harden was a “Jordan” and had like 3 titles with the Rockets with that attitude I’d be up for it. But he lead nobody anywhere plus Giannis said during the all-star draft that he wants to play with guys who pass the ball.
Why bring such a toxic guy then?
To win a title, we need Giannis to improve his free throws and for Bud to have a clue in the playoffs. Oh, and ability to adapt and make real adjustments, Giannis needs to play more like a PF sometimes and now we have a PG to enable that. Let’s see what happens...

How many "Jordans" are there....

I agree that we don't need Harden to win a title, I'm just shocked by how people are straight up dismissing it . People change in different situations, not saying Harden would...but it's possible. I'm just weirded out that people won't even entertain it. Don't we want a championship? Harden + Giannis + Jrue/Midds makes us favorites for the next 2-3 years.

Completely understand your point, however, the fact that Harden had an issue with every single player on his team who was not just a role player completely puts me off. The guy clearly is not ok with sharing the spotlight.

[packer396]

Boston reportedly offered Hayward plus their 3 1st rounders this year (ended up being Nesmith, Bane, Pritchard).

How would that have gone down though the Hayward having the player option for 20-21? I can't seem to remember a scenario where a player with an option was traded then immediately became a FA

[raferfenix]

I think it's reasonable to consider whether the Bucks could have made a better move than the Holiday one. For example, they could have almost certainly kept Hill and made a S&T move for Bogdan that wouldn't have costed as much, or they could have saved their assets and waited to pounce on a Harden or a Beal.

It was clearly an overpay for Holiday, and my guess is that they made that deal thinking they were going to get Bogdan, too; I'm not sure if they would have agreed to give up all of that for Holiday if they knew the Bogdan deal wasn't done - the either/or scenario would have been interesting for them to consider. If they made the move for Bogdan and passed on Holiday, would that have been enough for Giannis to re-sign?

Agreed.

And looking forward to analyzing and debating Holiday on the Bucks as opposed to other moves we could have made for the foreseeable future!

It's possible we'll know quick whether he is a good or bad fit. Or if he doesn't extend in Feb. we could be heading to a disaster.

More likely I think we'll have to see how far we go in the playoffs before having a better feel for the opportunity cost.

At least unless more comes out that show Holiday put the Bucks over the top to sign the supermax (and that Bogdan alone wouldn't have been enough) -- which it very well might have!

[skones]

Boston reportedly offered Hayward plus their 3 1st rounders this year (ended up being Nesmith, Bane, Pritchard).

How would that have gone down though the Hayward having the player option for 20-21? I can't seem to remember a scenario where a player with an option was traded then immediately became a FA

Hayward exercising the option for one more year was likely built into the offer.

[emunney]

Boston reportedly offered Hayward plus their 3 1st rounders this year (ended up being Nesmith, Bane, Pritchard).

How would that have gone down though the Hayward having the player option for 20-21? I can't seem to remember a scenario where a player with an option was traded then immediately became a FA

He would have had to opt in in order to be traded.

[All The Bucks]

It's good to hear that they tried to keep Hill all along. It shows they know what kind of intangibles they need on the team, which suggests they will keep trying to improve in that regard. I firmly believe multiple teams would love to add Hill.

On the other hand, this shows that NOP knew the Bucks were desperate and bent them over a barrel. Disappointing. Even if you're dead set on Jrue, don't let them know it. Play it off like you love Bogdan or Oladipo too. Act like you think the bubble was kind of a fluke and you still like your team. Portray utmost confidence that Giannis will extend regardless. At some point you have to have some dignity in negotiations and explain to Giannis that you have to call another team's bluff sometimes. I think NOP would have settled for less eventually.

My goodness you're naive. If Wisconsin fans knew of even half the deals the Bucks, Brewers, and Packers could have made if only the player wanted to come here, it would entirely change the perception of all these armchair GMs. Yet here you are acting like it would be so easy to hold back some assets and pounce when the next star became available. Do you not realize that not only did they have a willing trade partner in NO, but a player who confirmed he wanted to come here. Yes it cost more than it should have. And it's not because the Bucks are poor poker players. It's because teams know that the Bucks HAVE TO be aggressive when a player is willing to come to Milwaukee happily. A Boston or Miami can say pound sand, we'll move on to our next target. Try convincing the GM on the other end of the line that you as the Bucks GM can simply wait for the next big piece to come available. And that's without even accounting for the time constraints they were under. Something you keep referring to as an assumption despite plenty of evidence being made public.

And you also fail to credit the Bucks for correctly assessing that the cost to acquire stars would go up dramatically as soon as Giannis signed his extension. Teams that were holding back some assets on the chance Giannis might be available soon, are holding them back no more. Yet here you are acting as though the remaining saved assets from acquiring a Schroeder or Oladipo versus Holiday, would have made them a shoe-in to acquire the rare star that comes available in the coming months. That's laughable on multiple levels.

[sdn40]

I'm glad he signed, but Giannis put the whole organization in a tough spot by basically saying "impress me or else." Easy to say Horst should have played Russian roulette with his job. Most likely a far different mindset if it was your job on the line. Those stakes were pretty fricken high to be playing hard to get. And every organization knew exactly what was going on. You weren't gonna get a bargain from anyone. Imagine waking up every morning with the real chance you would be the guy that was on watch when Giannis walked. Not a great update to your resume.

[coolhandluke121]

It's good to hear that they tried to keep Hill all along. It shows they know what kind of intangibles they need on the team, which suggests they will keep trying to improve in that regard. I firmly believe multiple teams would love to add Hill.

On the other hand, this shows that NOP knew the Bucks were desperate and bent them over a barrel. Disappointing. Even if you're dead set on Jrue, don't let them know it. Play it off like you love Bogdan or Oladipo too. Act like you think the bubble was kind of a fluke and you still like your team. Portray utmost confidence that Giannis will extend regardless. At some point you have to have some dignity in negotiations and explain to Giannis that you have to call another team's bluff sometimes. I think NOP would have settled for less eventually.

My goodness you're naive. If Wisconsin fans knew of even half the deals the Bucks, Brewers, and Packers could have made if only the player wanted to come here, it would entirely change the perception of all these armchair GMs. Yet here you are acting like it would be so easy to hold back some assets and pounce when the next star became available. Do you not realize that not only did they have a willing trade partner in NO, but a player who confirmed he wanted to come here.

I'm not engaging any further with anyone who has this loser "woe is me, we're Milwaukee" mindset. Take that attitude back to 2012 where it belongs.

[LUKE23]

Yeah, now that Giannis is extended, I believe our draft outlook is as follows:

2020: Give up #24
2021: Keep our pick, #25-30
2022: would have kept #25-30, instead give this up (this would have been conveyed a different year at some point)
2023: keep our pick, #25-30
2024 swap: keep our pick, #25-30
2025 unprotected: give up #25-30
2026 swap: Unknown
2027 unprotected: Unknown

Now, injuries can change all of this prior to 2025, but I still don't believe there is much risk until 2026 with Giannis in tow, and if he stays that last year that also eliminates 2026 as a big risk. I would rather have late firsts than not, but our GM should also be able to add that level of impact relatively cheap if he is good, and we have a team that people want to play for.

It does put heightened importance on hitting on the 2021, 2023, and 2024 picks, however.

[All The Bucks]

It's good to hear that they tried to keep Hill all along. It shows they know what kind of intangibles they need on the team, which suggests they will keep trying to improve in that regard. I firmly believe multiple teams would love to add Hill.

On the other hand, this shows that NOP knew the Bucks were desperate and bent them over a barrel. Disappointing. Even if you're dead set on Jrue, don't let them know it. Play it off like you love Bogdan or Oladipo too. Act like you think the bubble was kind of a fluke and you still like your team. Portray utmost confidence that Giannis will extend regardless. At some point you have to have some dignity in negotiations and explain to Giannis that you have to call another team's bluff sometimes. I think NOP would have settled for less eventually.

My goodness you're naive. If Wisconsin fans knew of even half the deals the Bucks, Brewers, and Packers could have made if only the player wanted to come here, it would entirely change the perception of all these armchair GMs. Yet here you are acting like it would be so easy to hold back some assets and pounce when the next star became available. Do you not realize that not only did they have a willing trade partner in NO, but a player who confirmed he wanted to come here.

I'm not engaging any further with anyone who has this loser "woe is me, we're Milwaukee" mindset. Take that attitude back to 2012 where it belongs.

It's not "woe is me", it's reality. And I'm actually impressed at what all 3 Wisconsin pro sports GMs have been able to pull off in spite of the handicap they need to overcome. They aggressively go after the type of players who care more about winning then where they can party after the game. You were probably one of those who criticized the Brewers for giving up too much when they traded for Yelich. Way to further illustrate just how naive you are though. You're making this easy.

[All The Bucks]

I'm glad he signed, but Giannis put the whole organization in a tough spot by basically saying "impress me or else." Easy to say Horst should have played Russian roulette with his job. Most likely a far different mindset if it was your job on the line. Those stakes were pretty fricken high to be playing hard to get. And every organization knew what was going on. You weren't gonna get a bargain from anyone. Imagine waking up every morning with the real chance you would be the guy that was on watch when Giannis walked.

Truth.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

The crucial missing info for me is what other teams were offering for Jrue.

Boston reportedly offered Hayward plus their 3 1st rounders this year (ended up being Nesmith, Bane, Pritchard).

I don't think we overpaid (Giannis is signed long term) and we don't know what other teams offered.

yeah i read that too. considering what charlotte paid him im assuming they could have ended up getting 5 picks one way or the other with boston too

[ABucksFan]

This draft was pretty weak IMO. Obviously you never know, but 3 draft picks and Hayward is meh. Rather gamble on the unprotected and future picks. I do think we over-paid for Jrue, but like I said I get it. Giannis signed so that's all that matters.