Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Darvin Returns

[BUCKnation]

If you haven't listened to the Bill Simmons podcast with Doc Rivers, you probably should. Some takeaways I had:

-Sam is one of Doc's best friends. Tells me he'll be on staff once the Finals are over

-Doc talks about how Giannis and Khris were doing their usual thing of bringing the ball up-court after made baskets, when that should be Dame's responsibility. Said that is/was in the process of being fixed. Dame needs to start the offense after made baskets. If non-made, and Giannis gets the rebound, then Giannis will be allowed to push it like he normally does.

-After saying the above, Doc then goes on to say Giannis is in many ways our PG, so that's a big reason we lost to Indy.

-Doc tossed Dame under the bus as essentially being out of shape last year. Claims it takes guy's all year to get into shape, so don't be too mad at Dame. Claims Dame is now in-shape after working out the last two months.

-Said Giannis probably doesn't play against the Knicks had the Bucks advanced, based on severity of his injury.

-Doc spends his free time watching NBA games and playing golf with Larry David. To me this means we need Larry David courtside in Milwaukee next year for a game

-Doc's memory and understanding of the game is impeccable. You can see how he's able to get these top jobs by impressing ownership groups.

Dame said that himself that he didn’t properly get ready for the season like he normally does.

For the Indy series, beyond being one of the best in the world, Giannis would have been the answer for a ton of the issues with small things that we incurred during that series.

[stillgotgame]

We're at the point where someone thinks Giannis isn't a plus defender at the 4?.......... Grass..... It's green..... Touch it if you haven't in a while

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Giannis sucks as a modern 4 defender. Too slow to close out on threes. Scrubs have career games against him.

Grass. Touch it

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Nikola Jovic - Febuary 13 - career high 24 points against is with Giannis covering him. Jovic was 5/8 from 3. Giannis with repeated slow close outs on open 3s.
GG Jackson - February 15 - career high 27 points, 6 of 10 3s. Giannis was so bad on defense that he had 35 points himself and his plus/minus was still -14.

Modern NBA power forwards are Tatum, PJ Washington, Aaron Gordon. Quick, mobile and won the last 2 NBA titles.
Giannis at 250 lbs plus is a center now.
When he was younger/lighter he was unbelievable closing out - I'm sure we all remember watching block a 3 his rookie year. But he's heavier, and the league has gotten quicker, smaller and lighter.

[bdpecore]

Giannis sucks as a modern 4 defender. Too slow to close out on threes. Scrubs have career games against him.

Grass. Touch it

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Nikola Jovic - Febuary 13 - career high 24 points against is with Giannis covering him. Jovic was 5/8 from 3. Giannis with repeated slow close outs on open 3s.
GG Jackson - February 15 - career high 27 points, 6 of 10 3s. Giannis was so bad on defense that he had 35 points himself and his plus/minus was still -14.

Modern NBA power forwards are Tatum, PJ Washington, Aaron Gordon. Quick, mobile and won the last 2 NBA titles.
Giannis at 250 lbs plus is a center now.
When he was younger/lighter he was unbelievable closing out - I'm sure we all remember watching block a 3 his rookie year. But he's heavier, and the league has gotten quicker, smaller and lighter.

I’m sure we can find games where Tatum, PJW and Gordon all got torched by a player on a hot streak. Giannis is still a mismatch nightmare. Maybe he has lost some lateral quickness from bulking up, but his length and physicality make up for it when he’s isolated defensively against a smaller/quicker player. Until you can show me more than isolated stats from a couple of games, I’m not convinced Giannis is a liability on defense as he’s still considered a top 10-20 defensive player in the league.

[Daver]

From reading all the articles on dame i think he has a chip on his shoulder from where he was this year in terms of mental n physical health.I feel i mean really feel this dude will be at 100% in both those areas n will have a monster year in 25.Thats why i wanna see this big 3 together for a full year hell they won 49 games with a varience of a big 2.

[blazza18]

When he was younger/lighter he was unbelievable closing out - I'm sure we all remember watching block a 3 his rookie year. But he's heavier, and the league has gotten quicker, smaller and lighter.

Shooting 4's have been getting him for years now. I don't think he's slow at closeouts because of his bigger body. I think he cheats off guys as a way to rest and is slow to react process wise. Plus he rarely jumps to contest/relies on his length to bail him out too much.

[humanrefutation]

It's hard for Giannis to go all in contesting 4s shooting threes when he's expected to offer help defense everywhere else - and carry the offensive load, too.

I have no doubt that Giannis can lock down any 3-5 if he has to. But he can't guard everyone and we also haven't been able to see him lock down dudes when he has to during the playoffs because he's been hurt these last couple postseasons.

Allowing Dame (and a healthy Khris) to take more of the offensive load was, theoretically, going to help Giannis be able to expend more energy on the defensive end. Doc talking about putting the ball more in Dame's hand to initiate the offense will hopefully help Giannis save some energy. But Giannis also has to buy in.

[ShootingtheJ]

Giannis sucks as a modern 4 defender. Too slow to close out on threes. Scrubs have career games against him.

Grass. Touch it

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Nikola Jovic - Febuary 13 - career high 24 points against is with Giannis covering him. Jovic was 5/8 from 3. Giannis with repeated slow close outs on open 3s.
GG Jackson - February 15 - career high 27 points, 6 of 10 3s. Giannis was so bad on defense that he had 35 points himself and his plus/minus was still -14.

Modern NBA power forwards are Tatum, PJ Washington, Aaron Gordon. Quick, mobile and won the last 2 NBA titles.
Giannis at 250 lbs plus is a center now.
When he was younger/lighter he was unbelievable closing out - I'm sure we all remember watching block a 3 his rookie year. But he's heavier, and the league has gotten quicker, smaller and lighter.

You found some stats while he was playing injured. How impressive.

Where's KDs stats versus Giannis. How's his FG% against? I'm guessing you won't answer those.

[GoldenAntlers]

From reading all the articles on dame i think he has a chip on his shoulder from where he was this year in terms of mental n physical health.I feel i mean really feel this dude will be at 100% in both those areas n will have a monster year in 25.Thats why i wanna see this big 3 together for a full year hell they won 49 games with a varience of a big 2.

I'm with Daver.

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[mattg]

The Trade board on RealGM dot-com is the same as any other internet message board where every thread/proposal inevitably ends in a stalemate and bickering over marginal asset value because everyone thinks the entire goal of transactions is to "fleece" the other team. I couldn't care less what arm-chair GM's think of Brook and Bobby's value. If Horst doesn't pull the trigger on a big move, it's not because those guys aren't coveted players around the league.

"coveted"

Yeah not the correct word choice

Giannis is a coveted player around the league.

Brook Lopez is a player around the league.

[bdpecore]

The Trade board on RealGM dot-com is the same as any other internet message board where every thread/proposal inevitably ends in a stalemate and bickering over marginal asset value because everyone thinks the entire goal of transactions is to "fleece" the other team. I couldn't care less what arm-chair GM's think of Brook and Bobby's value. If Horst doesn't pull the trigger on a big move, it's not because those guys aren't coveted players around the league.

"coveted"

Yeah not the correct word choice

Giannis is a coveted player around the league.

Brook Lopez is a player around the league.

Brook definitely has positive value around the league which is impressive considering he’s 36 and making $23MM next season.

[stillgotgame]

Grass. Touch it

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Nikola Jovic - Febuary 13 - career high 24 points against is with Giannis covering him. Jovic was 5/8 from 3. Giannis with repeated slow close outs on open 3s.
GG Jackson - February 15 - career high 27 points, 6 of 10 3s. Giannis was so bad on defense that he had 35 points himself and his plus/minus was still -14.

Modern NBA power forwards are Tatum, PJ Washington, Aaron Gordon. Quick, mobile and won the last 2 NBA titles.
Giannis at 250 lbs plus is a center now.
When he was younger/lighter he was unbelievable closing out - I'm sure we all remember watching block a 3 his rookie year. But he's heavier, and the league has gotten quicker, smaller and lighter.

You found some stats while he was playing injured. How impressive.

Where's KDs stats versus Giannis. How's his FG% against? I'm guessing you won't answer those.

We never put Giannis on KD, Giannis is too valuable on offense to exert that much energy on D. KD doesn't matter anymore, anyway.

Giannis has added a bunch of upper body mass over the years and it's his downfall. For what, to battle inside against Embiid? Giannis is a center at this weight/physique.
OKC won 60 games with a 207 lb beanpole at center and a big shooting guard at PF. We should learn from this, weight is a detriment. Quickness and length to defend the 3 and drives is what matter in the current NBA. Giannis has lost that quickness, he's a center.

[Ron Swanson]

I'd consider a coveted starter level player someone who a lot of teams would give up positive value to acquire.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I'd consider a coveted starter level player someone who a lot of teams would give up positive value to acquire.

greatly desired or envied.
"I gave up a coveted job, that of editor-in-chief"
Like sure, lots of teams would trade for Lopez or portis but let's be real. Teams are not day dreaming about adding an aging Lopez to their squad.

[fansinceforever]

I definitely agree that Horst may not make a move because there's just not a huge market out there for guys like Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis. There's no market for Pat Connaughton. Hopefully someone really likes rookies available at 23 and 33 or we're gonna be bitching about a lot of the same nonsense this season.

[Bernman]

I definitely agree that Horst may not make a move because there's just not a huge market out there for guys like Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis. There's no market for Pat Connaughton. Hopefully someone really likes rookies available at 23 and 33 or we're gonna be bitching about a lot of the same nonsense this season.

Just cuz you say something doesn't make it true. Bobby reportedly would have fetched a late lotto last year & that was in a better draft. That pick or its equivalent would significantly improve the outlook. There's a familiarity breeds contempt factor here.

[machu46]

I definitely agree that Horst may not make a move because there's just not a huge market out there for guys like Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis. There's no market for Pat Connaughton. Hopefully someone really likes rookies available at 23 and 33 or we're gonna be bitching about a lot of the same nonsense this season.

I’d be surprised if any of this is true to be honest. I think there are likely a decent number of teams that would like Brook or Bobby and at least a few that would gladly take Pat.


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[ShootingtheJ]

I definitely agree that Horst may not make a move because there's just not a huge market out there for guys like Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis. There's no market for Pat Connaughton. Hopefully someone really likes rookies available at 23 and 33 or we're gonna be bitching about a lot of the same nonsense this season.

I’d be surprised if any of this is true to be honest. I think there are likely a decent number of teams that would like Brook or Bobby and at least a few that would gladly take Pat.


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Agree. It's a tough sell to say that the team executives who put Bobby on team USA think Bobby sucks.

Bobby was awesome when given a chance to start under Doc (20 ppf on 61 FG%), and I bet there's numerous team that want to give him that opportunity full time. Also, it's advantageous that a number of the good teams have major rebounding issues.

[fansinceforever]

I definitely agree that Horst may not make a move because there's just not a huge market out there for guys like Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis. There's no market for Pat Connaughton. Hopefully someone really likes rookies available at 23 and 33 or we're gonna be bitching about a lot of the same nonsense this season.

Just cuz you say something doesn't make it true. Bobby reportedly would have fetched a late lotto last year & that was in a better draft. That pick or its equivalent would significantly improve the outlook. There's a familiarity breeds contempt factor here.

And just because you believe the opposite doesn't make it true. A late lotto is this draft means nothing though and I don't get excited about Grant Williams.

My point is that Horst may not get back the value that he thinks our current players bring to our roster.

[fansinceforever]

I definitely agree that Horst may not make a move because there's just not a huge market out there for guys like Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis. There's no market for Pat Connaughton. Hopefully someone really likes rookies available at 23 and 33 or we're gonna be bitching about a lot of the same nonsense this season.

I’d be surprised if any of this is true to be honest. I think there are likely a decent number of teams that would like Brook or Bobby and at least a few that would gladly take Pat.


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Lol the question isn't whether we can trade them. Of course we can. Do they return the type of talent that can actually improve the roster?

[ShootingtheJ]

I definitely agree that Horst may not make a move because there's just not a huge market out there for guys like Brook Lopez and Bobby Portis. There's no market for Pat Connaughton. Hopefully someone really likes rookies available at 23 and 33 or we're gonna be bitching about a lot of the same nonsense this season.

I’d be surprised if any of this is true to be honest. I think there are likely a decent number of teams that would like Brook or Bobby and at least a few that would gladly take Pat.


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Lol the question isn't whether we can trade them. Of course we can. Do they return the type of talent that can actually improve the roster?

Trading Bobby for an equal player who plays SG would be a huge upgrade for us. The SG could start, and be part of our closing lineup. It also allows us to get an actual center to play backup center.

Better yet is dealing Bobby and 23 in a multi team deal for that SG.

Bobby has so much more value to a team that can play him 32 minutes a night at PF.