Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst Given Extension

[kanyon]

Did we really have to toss in Johnson on that trade -__-;

[yb90]

I am much more conerned with what Horst did tradewise and his personnel moves than on the coaching situation.

I am won over that Doc should go, although with the injuries,and length of contract, i don't think there is much chance of that.

But roster construction is so much more importat than who the coach is (unless it's Griffin).

And the trade for Kuzma is the last straw. No GM worth their salt thinks Kuzma is a starting caliber shooting forward on a championship team.

Crazy thing is that there was an actual market for Kuzma. There were murmuring that the Kings wanted him and he turned down a trade to Dallas. It's possible that other teams wanted him too. I don't know why but it seems to be the case. Despite that possibility it's hard for me to understand how anyone constructing a team would think he could fit in between Dame and Giannis knowing how Kuzma has played recently and throughout his career. He has never been a great shooter or passer and his defense had been spotty at best. He has had decent years scoring and sharing but he didn't show any real qualities of being the kind of player you want as a 3rd guy.

While I would've never traded for him I do think he could play better and would play better with a real off season training. There has to be something wrong with his mechanics because he is not as bad as he has shown this year.

[fan230]

I think they thought Kuzma would fit in better than he has, granted there hasn't been ton of Giannis/Dame time, but I thin there was also a lot of pressure to dip the apron which I don't think was going to improve this team at all.

There were several articles that said that we could get under the second apron by moving Pat C.

I don’t know if this was true and I wrote earlier to see if any one of us could confirm or not, this.
If true, this lousy Kuzma trade was unnecessary.

[fan230]

Did we really have to toss in Johnson on that trade -__-;

Wizards insisted on Aj Johnson, else no trade.
It was wrong to trade Khris for Kuzma to begin with.

[benultimate]

In hindsight I'm amazed they canned Griffin when they did. Even though we all knew we were winning in spite of the coaching. We'd kill for that winning percentage now. Must have lost the locker room bigtime

[Baddy Chuck]

I think they thought Kuzma would fit in better than he has, granted there hasn't been ton of Giannis/Dame time, but I thin there was also a lot of pressure to dip the apron which I don't think was going to improve this team at all.

There were several articles that said that we could get under the second apron by moving Pat C.

I don’t know if this was true and I wrote earlier to see if any one of us could confirm or not, this.
If true, this lousy Kuzma trade was unnecessary.

I'm not going to sit here and say it wasn't a thing because none of us really know but I just highly doubt it. Average at best role player on a $9.5 million deal with another year on top next season, not really the easiest sell.

Like one team facilitating deals this deadline was the Jazz. In the end they basically turned Drew Eubanks ($5 million expiring) and Patty Mills ($2 million expiring) into KJ Martin ($8 million expiring), Josh Richardson ($3 million expiring), Mo Bamba ($2 million expiring) and Jalen Hood-Schifino ($4 million expiring). All in all they took in about Pat Connaughton's contract this season, without adding the extra $9.5 million next season, and in return got cash in 2 separate deals, a 2nd pick swap, and 4 2nd round picks. I look at that and highly question what the Bucks were putting on the table to drop Pat Connaughton's deal. Is the 23rd pick in last years draft enough to cover essentially double that cost? Are we talking some type of asset exchange with the '31 1st? Surely no team was just taking Pat because if that was the case even with the Kuzma deal Pat would be dumped in a heartbeat to save an extra $25 million or whatever it would be with the tax.

[Plossum]

Yeah I reckon Pat was undealable unless we attached that ‘31 pick. This is where that overpay for crowder hurts. We prob could’ve offloaded him with a couple of 2nds. But even then prob not given they’re bought each year for relatively cheap.

I think in the hierarchy or contracts we tried to dump to get under the apron, it prob went Pat, Midds, Brook. Guessing Bobby wasn’t on the table due to his PED issues. So Midds became the sacrificial lamb to get under the cap.

If everyone here knew Kuz wasn’t going to move the needle I assume the FO did too. They could see the train wreck we’d become and getting under the apron at least alleviates some pressure for future roster moves.

[thonnisbeastley]

The trade was solid and we had to try something. Midds is getting an MRI today on his knee and will be shut down for the season. He's actually cooked.

[Matches Malone]

The trade was solid and we had to try something. Midds is getting an MRI today on his knee and will be shut down for the season. He's actually cooked.

I don't fault them for trying something since they knew more about Middleton's health than we do, but why they all agreed that Kuzma was the type of player to go after, is beyond me. I'm sure options were slim, but it felt like a panic move. Let's just hope Kuzma getting benched in crunch time like last game was only a one-time thing and he turns it back up like the first 2 weeks he was here. And of course, seeing AJ do anything of note is just pouring a little salt in the wound.

[pifhluk23]

AJJ aside, what's more valuable in the trade market this off season:

34M expiring Middleton that is a pure salary dump, no team is going to count on him being able to play

Kuzma 2/44 and being under 2nd apron

[blazza18]

Actually targeting Kuzma is the concerning part of it all. It’s not what a smart team would do. We’ve done a whole lot of that since the title.

[WiscoKing13]

Actually targeting Kuzma is the concerning part of it all. It’s not what a smart team would do. We’ve done a whole lot of that since the title.

That was due to having to get a wing when your carrot was Middleton and you had to move off money. Basically the only other option was Grant.

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[Wonka]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

[MickeyDavis]

At least we know that "playoff Khris" was never going to happen as he now has a knee issue to go along with both ankles. Doesn't mean it was a good trade of course but keeping Khris this year wouldn't have yielded any benefits.

[BUCKnation]

I didn't mind targeting Kuzma given his contract and what he could potentially give us, but I really hated just throwing in AJJ.

[JayMKE]

Horst managed our cap space horrendously and the 2nd apron was crippling, it’s hard to believe that Kuzma was a guy they thought they could win with otherwise but Horst gave up 5 picks for Jae Crowder so who knows. What burns me is giving up our lone decent prospect in forever just to do this dumping, total own goal and Horst has to go. He can’t evaluate talent, he gets his cheeks spread any time he negotiates a trade, why is this guy still employed?

[kanyon]

I think we should actually play more Pat. I've definitely been a detractor of his, but he has the XP and knows where to be/how to pass and is a great rebounder for his height/position.

[nagawicka]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

Are you denying the reality of MIddleton's knees, age, general availability in the context of our cap space, and resulting value around the league?
You are.

[soxperry]

The argument that we “had no choice” or “no option” other than the trade we ended up making is getting really, really overplayed.

i dont think most would argue that we had no other options. but what do you really think happened? he looked at all the options and said, "I'll take the one that's not as good as this one over here" ??

I know it's convenient to call these guys idiots all the time but he's not an idiot. If there were a better option, we would have done it. And that's really the proof to me that it was the best option available.

if you think, based on nothing but your own intuition and frustration with the state of the team, that you know better and that he just picked a bad deal, i really dont know what to say to that.

[soxperry]

Horst managed our cap space horrendously and the 2nd apron was crippling, it’s hard to believe that Kuzma was a guy they thought they could win with otherwise but Horst gave up 5 picks for Jae Crowder so who knows. What burns me is giving up our lone decent prospect in forever just to do this dumping, total own goal and Horst has to go. He can’t evaluate talent, he gets his cheeks spread any time he negotiates a trade, why is this guy still employed?

just off the top of my head...

made the PJ Tucker trade which won us a ring
got KPJ for MARJON
got Sims for a guy who was never going to play for us

Crowder trade ended up sucking. i understand the process though.

i dont even think Horst is a top GM, i just take issue with the way you guys arrive at your conclusions of him. It's kinda maddening to be honest.