#12, Brockman, Leuer, SL for #14, Dalembert

[europa]

This is the most short-term thinking organization on Earth. I am very confident saying it doesn't make it more likely they take a C. Could they still? Sure.

One of the crazy things about Leonard is that's the type of pick that does nothing to increase the team's playoff chances. He could spend most of the year on the bench behind Dalembert and Sanders/Udoh, all of whom offer a lot more defensive ability which clearly is a priority with Bogut gone. If the Bucks are looking to draft someone who can help them right away, Leonard shouldn't be the guy. And you have to think everyone connected with the Bucks is only thinking about next season at this point. Kohl always has short-sighted goals and there's no reason for Hammond and Skiles to be focused on anything beyond next season.

[linguini8]

Don't check bucks news for a day, and come back to a 60 page thread. I haven't read all of it, but my general opinion:

1. Moving back 2 spots for Dalembert is not a big loss.
2. However, are we going to resign him after his year is up? I doubt it, and that makes this deal crap. Unless you move him next year as an expiring for something good.

Just wondering why you think the deal becomes crap if we dont resign Dalembert? The deal actually does fit the win now and rebuild mold. Dalembert will come in and hopefully play 25mpg effectively as our starting 5 while mentoring/helping Sanders(and Udoh) to become the starter for next season. If we don't resign him that's just another 6 Mil off the books to throw at a Free Agent - and we will have plenty of money to spend after this season. We only move back 2 spots and this trade now allows us to focus on a wing instead of a big man. Hopefully we draft Ross.

Would you rather have one year of Dalembert and Milwaukee drafting Lamb or Ross.
or
Would you rather have one year of Brockman, Livingston, Leuer and Milwaukee drafting Zeller or Leonard?

[InsideOut]

If it ends up being a great/bad pick at this point do we praise/blame Hammond or Skiles?

[drew881]

If we don't resign him that's just another 6 Mil off the books to throw at a Free Agent - and we will have plenty of money to spend after this season. We only move back 2 spots and this trade now allows us to focus on a wing instead of a big man. Hopefully we draft Ross.

Would you rather have one year of Dalembert and Milwaukee drafting Lamb or Ross.
or
Would you rather have one year of Brockman, Livingston, Leuer and Milwaukee drafting Zeller or Leonard?

1. When have we ever signed a good free agent? Don't paint this as a cap relief move when our GM signs horrible players like Drew Gooden. We have had cap room in the past, could have waited for it while getting better draft picks, and shouldn't need deals like this to get out of our induced cap issues.

Livingston was non-guaranteed. Could have just cut him. John Brockman is off the books after next year, and makes only 1 mil. Leuer has team options and is 400k this year. We paying more than we had to by making this trade. Gonna pay Dalembert his 6.7 when we could have paid 2.5 (1 mil from Livingston, 1 for Brockman, and 400k for Leuer).

2. We don't need to move back to draft Lamb or Ross. Bet both are gone by the 14th.

[xTitan]

I think trading for Dalembert makes Leonard even more in play because he won't play much as a rookie. I also believe if they draft T. Jones or any 4 at 14 they wuill not get much run because there will be 3 4's ahead of them.

[[MIKE C]]

This is the most short-term thinking organization on Earth. I am very confident saying it doesn't make it more likely they take a C. Could they still? Sure.

One of the crazy things about Leonard is that's the type of pick that does nothing to increase the team's playoff chances. He could spend most of the year on the bench behind Dalembert and Sanders/Udoh, all of whom offer a lot more defensive ability which clearly is a priority with Bogut gone. If the Bucks are looking to draft someone who can help them right away, Leonard shouldn't be the guy. And you have to think everyone connected with the Bucks is only thinking about next season at this point. Kohl always has short-sighted goals and there's no reason for Hammond and Skiles to be focused on anything beyond next season.

I don't believe the Bucks are looking to draft a player that can help them this year. Yes, Hammond has no reason to be looking beyond this year, but he isn't creative enough to break from his mold. He will continue to do what he usually does, draft a project in the 1st round that will spend most of the time on the bench, and find stop gap veterans to start. He has most of his starters in place anyway, try to resign Ersan and Delfino to add to the mix and call it an offseason.

[europa]

Hammond typically has gone after raw players with upside in the first round who theoretically need time to develop. Leonard definitely fits the needs time to develop part but I question his upside. Then again, if someone thinks he's going to be a big-time player in five years ... well ... there you are.

And then the drinking will begin.

[RiotPunch]

If we don't resign him that's just another 6 Mil off the books to throw at a Free Agent - and we will have plenty of money to spend after this season. We only move back 2 spots and this trade now allows us to focus on a wing instead of a big man. Hopefully we draft Ross.

Would you rather have one year of Dalembert and Milwaukee drafting Lamb or Ross.
or
Would you rather have one year of Brockman, Livingston, Leuer and Milwaukee drafting Zeller or Leonard?

1. When have we ever signed a good free agent? Don't paint this as a cap relief move when our GM signs horrible players like Drew Gooden. We have had cap room in the past, could have waited for it while getting better draft picks, and shouldn't need deals like this to get out of our induced cap issues.

Livingston was non-guaranteed. Could have just cut him. John Brockman is off the books after next year, and makes only 1 mil. Leuer has team options and is 400k this year. We paying more than we had to by making this trade. Gonna pay Dalembert his 6.7 when we could have paid 2.5 (1 mil from Livingston, 1 for Brockman, and 400k for Leuer).

2. We don't need to move back to draft Lamb or Ross. Bet both are gone by the 14th.

I get your points, but you have to consider the direction Kohl and co are trying to go. We traded two bad players (although you're right Shaun was NG'd and Brockness was $2M over 2 years), a PF that can stretch the floor, but likely won't ever become anything more than bench filler and we moved back 2 draft spots-- to acquire a legitimate center for our win-now efforts. The beauty here is this means (hopefully) no Zeller or Leonard in the draft, as well as no Kaman in free agency.

Dalembert coming off of the books after this year is a good thing. We can re-sign him if things work out, if not we get that financial flexibility. That becomes especially important as far as Kohl seeking to find a buyer for the Bucks and for the new GM coming in to have more room to work with.

I disagree with the direction we're taking as well, but this move made us a better basketball team at a very modest cost.

[xTitan]

How good you think Dalembert is? He is serviceable at best.....and if Ersan walks, I feel this team just took a step backwards.

[emunney]

I think it does mean no Kaman in FA, and that's really the big key. I don't think it means anything about the draft.

[msiris]

If it ends up being a great/bad pick at this point do we praise/blame Hammond or Skiles?

I would like to know as well.

[xTitan]

If it ends up being a great/bad pick at this point do we praise/blame Hammond or Skiles?

I would like to know as well.

you can pick either.....and about 5-6 others....just blame kohl, he is responsible for the entire mess.

[AussieBuck]

Dalembert...

He'll be starting his 11th season and we'll be his 4th team in 4 years. He has firmly entered the veteran journeyman phase of his career so I can see why Hammond wanted him.

But he is still a top 15 starting center. So this is the first "above average" starter Hammond has added in five years. #progress

You know he was benched by the Rockets when they acquired Camby right? He wasn't even the starter for the team Hammond wants to emulate.

[RiotPunch]

How good you think Dalembert is? He is serviceable at best.....and if Ersan walks, I feel this team just took a step backwards.

Dalembert is a positive impact center that can anchor a defense. He had a great year last year, and this most definitely makes us a better team. Not saying it makes us a playoff team, it just plain makes us better. Serviceable at best isn't doing him justice, but I'm not saying he's some Godsend. He's a good, effective center. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ersan walking has nothing to do with this being a good basketball trade or not. That is a separate issue entirely. You think it will be a bad move bringing in Dalembert if we don't re-sign Ers @ 4 years / $35M?

[RiotPunch]

I think it does mean no Kaman in FA, and that's really the big key. I don't think it means anything about the draft.

I fear this as well. But I feel relatively good about Zeller and Leonard being gone by 14.

[linguini8]

1. When have we ever signed a good free agent? Don't paint this as a cap relief move when our GM signs horrible players like Drew Gooden. We have had cap room in the past, could have waited for it while getting better draft picks, and shouldn't need deals like this to get out of our induced cap issues.

Livingston was non-guaranteed. Could have just cut him. John Brockman is off the books after next year, and makes only 1 mil. Leuer has team options and is 400k this year. We paying more than we had to by making this trade. Gonna pay Dalembert his 6.7 when we could have paid 2.5 (1 mil from Livingston, 1 for Brockman, and 400k for Leuer).

2. We don't need to move back to draft Lamb or Ross. Bet both are gone by the 14th.

1. Agree that we don't have a good track record with Free Agent signings. However Hammonds is unlikely to be the GM after this season. We aren't in a bad cap situation and this wasn't a cap relief trade. That's not what I was saying. I was just pointing out that there will be around 25 Million to spend if Monta opts out, even after extending Jennings to 9M per.

Houston sent a 2nd round pick and 1.5 M back in the trade as well. We're barely paying more for making this trade.

2. I was pointing out that by trading for Dalembert, the need for a big like Zeller or Leonard is no more. Hopefully Lamb or Ross is there. Sanders can develop for another year and we get our future 2 guard. Better than having an even bigger clog of young big men and no 2 guard.

[Buckrageous]

If it ends up being a great/bad pick at this point do we praise/blame Hammond or Skiles?

I would like to know as well.

you can pick either.....and about 5-6 others....just blame kohl, he is responsible for the entire mess.

That's what I plan on doing. If your organization has no organization it's your fault when that manifests itself with a crappy product.

[xTitan]

How good you think Dalembert is? He is serviceable at best.....and if Ersan walks, I feel this team just took a step backwards.

Dalembert is a positive impact center that can anchor a defense. He had a great year last year, and this most definitely makes us a better team. Not saying it makes us a playoff team, it just plain makes us better. Serviceable at best isn't doing him justice, but I'm not saying he's some Godsend. He's a good, effective center. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ersan walking has nothing to do with this being a good basketball trade or not. That is a separate issue entirely. You think it will be a bad move bringing in Dalembert if we don't re-sign Ers @ 4 years / $35M?

I guess yor definition of great and mine are completely different. 1250 in the morning talked to a guy who covers the Rockets, go listen to that...he did not have a great year.

[RiotPunch]

How good you think Dalembert is? He is serviceable at best.....and if Ersan walks, I feel this team just took a step backwards.

Dalembert is a positive impact center that can anchor a defense. He had a great year last year, and this most definitely makes us a better team. Not saying it makes us a playoff team, it just plain makes us better. Serviceable at best isn't doing him justice, but I'm not saying he's some Godsend. He's a good, effective center. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ersan walking has nothing to do with this being a good basketball trade or not. That is a separate issue entirely. You think it will be a bad move bringing in Dalembert if we don't re-sign Ers @ 4 years / $35M?

I guess yor definition of great and mine are completely different. 1250 in the morning talked to a guy who covers the Rockets, go listen to that...he did not have a great year.

A great year to his standards, to be fair. 7.5 / 7.0 / 1.7 @ .551 TS% in 22 minutes is an impressive stat line, especially for him. He was much more efficient last year. Great may be an exaggeration, but it was quite possibly the man's best season.

EDIT: Do you have a link to the audio for that interview? I'd be curious to give it a listen.

[Bernman]

This is the most short-term thinking organization on Earth. I am very confident saying it doesn't make it more likely they take a C. Could they still? Sure.

One of the crazy things about Leonard is that's the type of pick that does nothing to increase the team's playoff chances. He could spend most of the year on the bench behind Dalembert and Sanders/Udoh, all of whom offer a lot more defensive ability which clearly is a priority with Bogut gone. If the Bucks are looking to draft someone who can help them right away, Leonard shouldn't be the guy. And you have to think everyone connected with the Bucks is only thinking about next season at this point. Kohl always has short-sighted goals and there's no reason for Hammond and Skiles to be focused on anything beyond next season.

That's a good point. They have drafted a best case scenario backup initially a couple times during the Hammonds era, but that was when they could have convinced themselves they were set at all 5 positions anyways. The positions they arguably aren't set at right now are small forward and power forward. Well they aren't likely going to burn another 1st rd draft pick on a small forward after selecting Harris last cycle and probably still being high on him. If anything they'd acquire a veteran as a backup plan for that position. That leaves power forward, where they know Ersan may not return, and if he doesn't that position is tenuous for 2012-2013. They could provide insurance against Ersan leaving through the draft. Jared Sullinger would be an example of a draft pick who could improve the Bucks chances of winning next season. Maybe the reason they felt comfortable dropping while picking up another asset (in their eyes)....was because Sullinger was dropping with them. Otherwise, they could have their eyes on Terrence Jones. I didn't know he was viewed as a power forward prospect until the lead up to this draft.