Official Tobias Harris watch thread (The End)

[worthlessBucks]

I realize that none of you would have traded Henson for Redick either, but how many of you would have rather traded Henson than Tobias?

Put me in that category, I wasn't one who wanted us to draft Henson last year so I'd have a preference to keep Tobes over Henson (factor in Ersan, Ekpe, etc and that makes more sense to me too). Even with that as the case, I'm obviously in the first part of your sentence as we shouldn't be trading our assets/prospects for potential rentals or 8th seed runs. Raise the roof 8th seed. Acceptable: Adding prospects and picks in deals for elite players (not Redick) or for different, same tiered prospects that are a better fit on the roster.

Edit: English. grr

[Ayt]

Someone like Grendon should, at worst, have been cautiously optimistic about Harris as a scorer.

The interesting thing is that I am cautiously optimistic about it.

You certainly haven't posted in way that indicates that you are. You dismissed his production as a Buck as being against a bunch of nobodies when that obviously wasn't the case. You weren't aware of what he did do when he got to start this year.

And to top it all off, you never even watched the guy play.

I forgot about that. Why the hell am I arguing with you about this topic when you clearly have no frame of reference?

Because I feel like sometimes I come from one of the better frame of references. I will defer to the analysis of a lot of players to you guys on here, it's why I still read the board.

It leads people to say incorrect things because they are so attached to the team and its young players, such as Scott Skiles can't develop young players. Then you look and there isn't one player that he had riding the pine in his coaching tenure that has ever gone on to be anything (other than Joe Johnson, who was a rookie).

However, I say that I come from a good frame of reference because I was fooled by excitement over CV, Ford, Haislip, Yi, Alexander, etc. If you become emotionally attached, you overrate 90% of them as a die-hard. Every once in a while a Larry Sanders pushes through the mix.

I've watched enough highlights and heard enough from you guys to understand that Harris has a promising offensive skillset, but I'm just saying that when people were claiming he was being wrongfully benched last year after he put up a 10 spot on Alando Tucker or something in the 4th quarter, it got a bit overwhelming.

I really don't know why you are posting so much in this thread.

[Sherman Douglas]

And I know Grendon isn't saying this, I'm not sure anyone on RealGM is, but it makes me laugh to keep seeing people saying things like "So what we gave up Harris, he's racking up stats on a garbage team, Redick is a better player now." What team was Redick on when he put up his career high stats this year? I forget.

[Kerb Hohl]

I really don't know why you are posting so much in this thread.

It all started with the debate about how much his massive games whilst down 20 mattered.

Then somebody posted the actual numbers showing that maybe they shouldn't.

We have different frames of reference. Deal with it.

[mojosodope]

And I know Grendon isn't saying this, I'm not sure anyone on RealGM is, but it makes me laugh to keep seeing people saying things like "So what we gave up Harris, he's racking up stats on a garbage team, Redick is a better player now." What team was Redick on when he put up his career high stats this year? I forget.

I do remember reading someone saying Orlando was competitive in the early part of the season... I personally find that hard to believe since they only are currently 2 games ahead of the Bobcats with a whopping 16 wins

[Ayt]

I really don't know why you are posting so much in this thread.

It all started with the debate about how much his massive games whilst down 20 mattered.

Then somebody posted the actual numbers showing that maybe they shouldn't.

We have different frames of reference. Deal with it.

Who has been arguing that his games in Orlando are indicative of much of anything?

His per minute production as a Buck was very similar whether he was starting or coming off the bench and cleaning up in apparent "garbage" time. What is your take on that?

[Newz]

I didn't say he'd be as good as Ray Allen. Just that I have a feeling we're going to watch a good young player blossom with another franchise while we continue to be stuck in mediocrity with retreads like Ellis.

Unless he's as good as a Ray Allen type player it won't make much of a difference. Obviously I'd still rather have the good, young player as opposed to the veteran... but we need some star power if we ever want to do anything worth while.

[Kerb Hohl]

I really don't know why you are posting so much in this thread.

It all started with the debate about how much his massive games whilst down 20 mattered.

Then somebody posted the actual numbers showing that maybe they shouldn't.

We have different frames of reference. Deal with it.

Who has been arguing that his games in Orlando are indicative of much of anything?

Did you miss everyone putting up all the GIFs and talking about how depressed they are about this trade when they look at his box scores in those games?

[mojosodope]

I truly believe our front office did not want to trade harris. I think Hammond thought he could get away with burring Harris on the bench and increasing other players trade value (Luc). It simply didn't work out like that for him and when Atlanta pulled out of the trade he didnt have an option to make anything else happen

I think Orlando saw something and demanded him for the trade.

Burying Harris on the bench made sense for this team, Monta and Brandon wern't going to stand getting out-shined offensively by the 20 year old, not this season when their contracts depend on it. I don't think Dunleavy is as ridiculous as them, but truth be told he's playing for a contract as well.

[Sherman Douglas]

I didn't say he'd be as good as Ray Allen. Just that I have a feeling we're going to watch a good young player blossom with another franchise while we continue to be stuck in mediocrity with retreads like Ellis.

Unless he's as good as a Ray Allen type player it won't make much of a difference. Obviously I'd still rather have the good, young player as opposed to the veteran... but we need some star power if we ever want to do anything worth while.

What kind of silly logic is that? We give up a good young small forward but because he doesn't make the hall of fame it's irrelevant?

[crkone]

I wonder if Tobes will be as good as Henson is in 2 years when he is also 22...

[Ayt]

It all started with the debate about how much his massive games whilst down 20 mattered.

Then somebody posted the actual numbers showing that maybe they shouldn't.

We have different frames of reference. Deal with it.

Who has been arguing that his games in Orlando are indicative of much of anything?

Did you miss everyone putting up all the GIFs and talking about how depressed they are about this trade when they look at his box scores in those games?

How many of them didn't hate the trade immediately when it was made?

Harris playing so well is just the cherry on top for the people who blasted the trade before he played a minute for them. It isn't the argument. If he goes 1-8 next game with 5 TOs, nothing changes.

[Newz]

I didn't say he'd be as good as Ray Allen. Just that I have a feeling we're going to watch a good young player blossom with another franchise while we continue to be stuck in mediocrity with retreads like Ellis.

Unless he's as good as a Ray Allen type player it won't make much of a difference. Obviously I'd still rather have the good, young player as opposed to the veteran... but we need some star power if we ever want to do anything worth while.

What kind of silly logic is that? We give up a good young small forward but because he doesn't make the hall of fame it's irrelevant?

About as silly as you not reading beyond the first sentence of my post.

[A Diddy2231]

No one gave a reason why they would keep Tobes over Henson..is it the need at SF? Or you think Henson is going to be a bench PF?

[mojosodope]

I didn't say he'd be as good as Ray Allen. Just that I have a feeling we're going to watch a good young player blossom with another franchise while we continue to be stuck in mediocrity with retreads like Ellis.

Unless he's as good as a Ray Allen type player it won't make much of a difference. Obviously I'd still rather have the good, young player as opposed to the veteran... but we need some star power if we ever want to do anything worth while.

But even the star players need SOLID role players. And even if Harris doesn't turn into Ray Allen, what we got for him was an solid role player(at best) with an expiring contract, no disrespect to JJ but that is what he is

[europa]

No one gave a reason why they would keep Tobes over Henson.

I gave two. I think he has a higher ceiling due to his offensive skills. Also, PF is the one position the Bucks had where they could part with someone and not be negatively impacted long term.

[Newz]

I didn't say he'd be as good as Ray Allen. Just that I have a feeling we're going to watch a good young player blossom with another franchise while we continue to be stuck in mediocrity with retreads like Ellis.

Unless he's as good as a Ray Allen type player it won't make much of a difference. Obviously I'd still rather have the good, young player as opposed to the veteran... but we need some star power if we ever want to do anything worth while.

But even the star players need SOLID role players. And even if Harris doesn't turn into Ray Allen, what we got for him was an solid role player(at best) with an expiring contract, no disrespect to JJ but that is what he is

I'm going to highlight it for you fellas.

[Ayt]

No one gave a reason why they would keep Tobes over Henson..is it the need at SF? Or you think Henson is going to be a bench PF?

Henson has a lot more he needs to work on both physically and in terms of skills. All I think Tobias needs is minutes to tighten up and expand the game he already has.

[Wooderson]

No one gave a reason why they would keep Tobes over Henson..is it the need at SF? Or you think Henson is going to be a bench PF?

I don't see Henson as much more than a good first big off the bench. He's going to have to add skills on offense if he wants to be more than just a hook shot/garbage guy around the hoop. He wasn't all that effective as a scorer in college so I think it will be difficult for him to add all that much. He's going to have to turn into a stud defender to be an above average starter.

Tobes on the other hand has already shown a great ability to take guys off the dribble and finish from multiple angles in the lane (sort of Shawn Marionesque). Post game is also pretty refined for a guy so young, and he seems like he really wants to establish down there, something that could be a huge advantage if he stays at SF. Basically I think he's a consistent midrange game away from being an awesome scorer.

In summation, Tobes is already much further along on one side of the ball and is 2 years younger than Henson.

[bullox]

I wonder if Tobes will be as good as Henson is in 2 years when he is also 22...

That's the thing, the Bucks could have had them both in two years.