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ATL - PG13 to Thunder

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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#901 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:51 pm

hege53190 wrote:Don't Forget Brook Lopez. Brook Lopez is the guy I love to give as an example when people say centers of old would never be able to play today because of the 3 point shot.

Lopez ATTEMPTED 31 threes in his first 8 years in the league. Last year Lopez MADE 134. That is 30% more makes in a season than Larry Bird ever had.

But Big men supposedly can't adapt.

Guys like Brook Lopez and Marc Gasol were high usage 40%++ shooters from 16+ before adjusting their game a few feet out.

That's a little different than Dwight Howard or Bismack Biyombo saying they are working on their three pointers.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#902 » by Wooderson » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:54 pm

Dwight can't make a basket outside of 3 feet, including FTs, and people think he can learn to shoot 3s? What on earth is going on here.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#903 » by humanrefutation » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:58 pm

ElPeregrino wrote:He's not even in the same league as the top 5 PGs.

CP3
Curry
Harden
Wall
Well


I don't even consider him top ten.

Lowry
Lillard
Conley
Isaiah
Kemba


Kyrie is better than everyone in that second tier with the possible exception of Conley - Kyrie is a significantly better scoring option than Conley but Conley plays much better defense.

And as a pure scoring option, the only PG in Kyrie's league is Steph - it's a close race because Kyrie is a better finisher than Steph is. He's a 47/40/90 guy who can get to the bucket almost at will. It's amazing that people could watch him these last two finals and not give him credit for how hard he is to guard on the offensive side of the ball.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#904 » by KidA24 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:59 pm

Wooderson wrote:Dwight can't make a basket outside of 3 feet, including FTs, and people think he can learn to shoot 3s? What on earth is going on here.


Whatever. Dwight for Telly. Lets do it. I want Dwight coming in off the bench just bombing 3's no matter what. Take out some people in the crowd. Bounce a few off the shot clock. Make the other team laugh so they play worse.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#905 » by DingleJerry » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:09 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
ElPeregrino wrote:He's not even in the same league as the top 5 PGs.

CP3
Curry
Harden
Wall
Well


I don't even consider him top ten.

Lowry
Lillard
Conley
Isaiah
Kemba


Kyrie is better than everyone in that second tier with the possible exception of Conley - Kyrie is a significantly better scoring option than Conley but Conley plays much better defense.

And as a pure scoring option, the only PG in Kyrie's league is Steph - it's a close race because Kyrie is a better finisher than Steph is. He's a 47/40/90 guy who can get to the bucket almost at will. It's amazing that people could watch him these last two finals and not give him credit for how hard he is to guard on the offensive side of the ball.


I'd take Lillard in a heartbeat over Kyrie. Again, we have no idea if Kyrie can succeed in that lead role where Lillard thrives and is a great and willing passer. And they have the same D weakness Probably Conley but I'm not sure. Lowry is close too. But i for sure put him ahead of IT and Kemba. Factoring in age of Conley and Lowry I pick Kyrie. So I guess I put Kyrie on this list at #7.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#906 » by buckboy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:11 pm

Wooderson wrote:Dwight can't make a basket outside of 3 feet, including FTs, and people think he can learn to shoot 3s? What on earth is going on here.


I just noticed your avatar. Fantastic.

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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#907 » by Wooderson » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:18 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Kyrie is better than everyone in that second tier with the possible exception of Conley - Kyrie is a significantly better scoring option than Conley but Conley plays much better defense.

And as a pure scoring option, the only PG in Kyrie's league is Steph - it's a close race because Kyrie is a better finisher than Steph is. He's a 47/40/90 guy who can get to the bucket almost at will. It's amazing that people could watch him these last two finals and not give him credit for how hard he is to guard on the offensive side of the ball.


In this finals, Kyrie had 2 stellar games, 2 poor ones, and one ok game. Was he really that great overall?

When LeBron has a series like that (see 2010 vs Celtics) he's ripped to shreds. People don't look at his statline - 27/9/7 on 56 TS - and say he had a great series (2014 finals is another example). Instead they actually examine it game by game. But for Kyrie it's different, the efficient 29/4/4 statline is posted and it even gets referred to as historically great.

I get that the expectations are completely different, but it's just funny how that works.

ETA: How big is your impact really when you play that poorly in games 1 and 2? He doesn't make the game easier on anyone else so when he's not scoring, where is the impact? (certainly not on D). I do think Kyrie could get the level where a lot of people currently have him but it's going to take a different mental approach (especially when LeBron's not on the court).
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#908 » by FlagsFlyForever » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:27 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
ElPeregrino wrote:He's not even in the same league as the top 5 PGs.

CP3
Curry
Harden
Wall
Well


I don't even consider him top ten.

Lowry
Lillard
Conley
Isaiah
Kemba


Kyrie is better than everyone in that second tier with the possible exception of Conley - Kyrie is a significantly better scoring option than Conley but Conley plays much better defense.

And as a pure scoring option, the only PG in Kyrie's league is Steph - it's a close race because Kyrie is a better finisher than Steph is. He's a 47/40/90 guy who can get to the bucket almost at will. It's amazing that people could watch him these last two finals and not give him credit for how hard he is to guard on the offensive side of the ball.

As a pure scoring option, I put Curry head and shoulders above Kyrie. I also put Harden, Isaiah, and Lillard clearly ahead of Kyrie because they score at a higher volume at a more efficient rate. But my issue isn't with Kyrie's scoring. I place a high value on defense and Kyrie is one of the worst defenders in the league. He's a good offensive player, but not good enough to overcome his defense and still be considered a great PG.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#909 » by blazza18 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:54 pm

Is Kyrie actually the best finisher in the league or is this just complete hyperbole because he makes tough finishes?
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#910 » by Prez » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:03 pm

Gonna get ripped for this but I honestly don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Brogdon is a more all-around positively impactful player next season than Kyrie.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#911 » by Turk Nowitzki » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:07 pm

Oh god, please no funny business here. Bartelstein has owned us in the past.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#912 » by Frank Nova » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:30 pm

Turk Nowitzki wrote:Oh god, please no funny business here. Bartelstein has owned us in the past.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#913 » by hege53190 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:34 pm

Kyrie sucks. As soon as LeBron leaves that Cavs team is going to struggle to win 30 games a year. Same league as Steph? LOL. What a joke.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#914 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:37 am

I like that Tim Frazier trade for Washington.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#915 » by Ron Swanson » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:42 am

I think anyone with half a brain knows that there's some middle ground between Steph Curry and "basically Mario Chalmers".
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#916 » by tyland » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:53 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:I like that Tim Frazier trade for Washington.


Same.

I have no idea what the Pelicans are doing though. If Jrue walks, will they even have a point guard on their roster?

I also saw that Langston Galloway opted out. What are peoples thoughts on him? By memory, he is a decent 3pt shooter and reasonable defender. At the right price he could be a decent back-up for this Bucks team (especially if Snell walks)
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#917 » by DanoMac » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:56 am

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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#918 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:59 am

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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#919 » by worthlessBucks » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:00 am

Ugh Crean, fooey.

KP trade scenario is not that surprising if you sit back and realize who has value on their roster and how awful their franchise has been for awhile. Carmelo needs to go, they had few assets in recent years, and KP has the most value out there.

The problem is you don't want Phil really doing the change, guy has been inept save for KP in his stint there. Carmelo needed to go long long ago.
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Re: ATL - Wilt and #27 dealt for Russell/Mozgov pg 32 

Post#920 » by Nowak008 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:04 am

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