Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[Couch Potato]

Simple math. Middleton as a opt in player option combined with Holiday is two .50 cent pieces. We need 4 decent quarters. Possibly a decent young cheap center that benched Lopez if he's signed.

[Dick Tate]

I think Jrue at PG is fine. His/team problem is he doesn't play next to a SG who is capable of creating their own shot.

[Antinomy]

Eric Bledsoe doesn't show up with those clutch shots and defensive plays vs. Brooklyn, nor does he put Devin Booker in jail in the Finals. Jrue deserves all the **** for how bad he was vs. Miami, but there's levels to this. Nobody keeps the dumb "toe on the line" narrative alive like some of our own fans do...

As I said, Jrue had moments but we won several key games in spite of him.

Yeah, this isn't the same thing as "we win a championship without him" cuz that's not how this works. Also, lol at literally the game-winning basket in Game 3 not being "clutch". I did notice you failed to mention that Khris being absolute dog **** in the ECF vs. Toronto was a pretty big reason why we didn't win with arguably the best team we've had in the Bud era though. We can play the what-if game every single year, but I'm not here for the revisionist stuff and gaslighting the fanbase into thinking they were just lucky to fall ass backwards into a championship in spite of Jrue and KD's toe.

I never said we “would’ve won the title without him”

Nice strawman attempt.

I said they would’ve been eliminated much earlier if Brooklyn was healthy. Or if KD’s foot was an inch back. Something you seem to be in your feelings about.

Sure, Khris was garbage in that Toronto series. Giannis was dogsh*t in that Toronto series too. Everyone was.

Jrue on the other hand, has been garbage overall in every series since he’s been here besides against ATL vs Trae Young.

Gaslighting? Lmao. If Khris or Giannis didn’t perform up to par in those pivotal games w/ Jrue shooting 4/25, we wouldn’t have won anything.

How is that gaslighting?

[Antinomy]

I think Jrue at PG is fine. His/team problem is he doesn't play next to a SG who is capable of creating their own shot.

I think our ideal setup would be similar to that 2019 rotation of Bledsoe-Brogdon-Hill.

We need more ballhandlers, not less.

Jrue making $35M a year handicaps the way we can build this roster.

Atleast with that 2019 rotation, if one guard was playing like trash, we could bench him.

Right now, we have to live with Jrue’s mistakes + having Grayson Allen at $10M per year being our starting SG & playing 30mpg.

[Ron Swanson]

You literally said "I'd trade Jrue for whatever I could get" while for the latter part of the last few pages chastising any even realistic Middleton trades as essentially laughable returns. You do you, man.

[Antinomy]

Comment on substance without attacks. Thanks. MD

[mke_design]

no more 1 seeds solves the problem.

[Ron Swanson]

Middleton to me is still the more likely guy to retain, but it certainly isn't because his value is higher than Jrue's. If you can get the haul from a team like Memphis, Washington, Orlando, etc., and Khris is cool with the 3-yr $90 million extension, then that pretty much works itself out. If it's for a couple 8-figure rotation level guys and a late-1st? **** no, you don't just give him away just because you're sick of what he doesn't do well (shooting, decision-making).

[Antinomy]

All I’m saying is: This team should not have $35M per year tied up at the guard position.

Boston is paying Smart, White & Brogdon an average of $18M per year between them.

Position-wise, having so much money consolidated into one guy at the guard spot leaves us with basically nothing else. So now you’re stuck with Grayson Allen starting for you.

[soxperry]

All I’m saying is: This team should not have $35M per year tied up at the guard position.

Boston is paying Smart, White & Brogdon an average of $18M per year between them.

Position-wise, having so much money consolidated into one guy at the guard spot leaves us with basically nothing else. So now you’re stuck with Grayson Allen starting for you.

Okay but Boston already had smart and then traded assets that we don't really have for the other two.

What's the solution to turning jrue into two 18 mil guys?

[Prez]

I’m okay with bringing back the core 4 as long as they get a real PG with legit speed/quickness (and isn’t a total defensive liability) to initiate in the half court, and slide Jrue to the 2. If they can’t find a way to do that, and the plan is just to again rely on Giannis/Khris/Jrue to spearhead the offense in the playoffs, our playoff offense is going in the dumpster again when it matters.

I personally would explore any trade that brings back multiple young talented pieces if possible for Jrue AND Khris and just doing a reset around 34, but I understand why that’s way easier said by me on my phone at work vs the reality of it, and wouldn’t be pissed if they brought them both back.

[Couch Potato]

I think Jrue at PG is fine. His/team problem is he doesn't play next to a SG who is capable of creating their own shot.

We been lacking a SG since REDD pretty much.

[raferfenix]

Holiday has reliably played at an all-star level for multiple seasons now and has two years left on a fair contract.

Middleton seems primed to be egregiously overpaid due to cap and market dynamics despite very serious health concerns.

I just don’t know if we could even sign and trade Khris for a haul if the team picking him up is also taking a huge risk on his contract.

Jrue probably has dramatically higher trade value.

[Rstuedes24]

Pivoting to a different hypothetical here. I view Bridges as close to untouchable if I'm Brooklyn, and say Ujiri is still reluctant to trade OG. Memphis really wants to make a move and starts getting desperate. Maybe they start viewing replacing Brooks' perimeter defense as more important than getting another shot-creating wing (or just go for a cheaper guy)....

Jrue Holiday for Kennard, Tyus Jones, and 3-4 unprotected 1st's and pick swaps. Who says no?

Memphis says no unfortunately

[leroyjw10]

We can talk about players all day -- and some of them deserve to be questioned -- but at the end of the day, this team has a Bud problem. We'd still be playing this year, and might have an additional title from past years, if we had a better coach who could adjust in the postseason.

[German Athens]

Boston is loaded with great contracts. Tatum, a borderline top 5 player and MVP candidate, will be the 36th highest paid player next season. Both him and brown will be paid less than any of our big 3. Then they have their trio of guards who are all on really nice, team friendly contracts, ranging between 18 and 23 million.

It’s really hard to match that.

If you want to copy their guard mold, two-way guards who can create some and are paid anywhere from 15-23 mil, you’re pretty much looking at vanvleet, who’s a free agent this year and likely will be paid a lot more, Lu Dort, who doesn’t bring offensively what the Boston guys do, or convincing yourself that rozier can play defense well.

[German Athens]

I’ll probably always wonder what it would have looked like having vanvleet on this team.

He’s not really the pg we exactly need - he’s not super quick, doesn’t have phenomenal vision, and isn’t a three level scorer - but he’s a stout as hell defender, who can get hot from outside, and, most importantly, he’s a high iq player who almost never turns the ball over.

[Antinomy]

Now that I think about it, we almost have to convince Crowder to re-sign too, to keep the salary slot.

[Mtsportsfan]

At some point, we’re gonna have to have a discussion about Giannis’ development stagnating.

Again, at some point, he needs to diversify his game & make it easier on himself.

Besides the D-Wade cut that he did a few times this year — I just didn’t like what I saw.

Where is the cutting game? Where is high post game?
Where is elbow low post game? Where is the mid-range? Where is the footwork around the paint?

The top of the key nonsense is not going to beat good teams anymore — it’s too easy to scheme against.

Doesn't that come with coaching ! When everything is random and Giannis is used as a battering ram , I don't see him improving . For the sake of Giannis and having a longer career , we need a system where he's not bringing up the ball all the time . These collisions are going to shorten his career ( thinking Dwight Howard )

[Badgerlander]

Pivoting to a different hypothetical here. I view Bridges as close to untouchable if I'm Brooklyn, and say Ujiri is still reluctant to trade OG. Memphis really wants to make a move and starts getting desperate. Maybe they start viewing replacing Brooks' perimeter defense as more important than getting another shot-creating wing (or just go for a cheaper guy)....

Jrue Holiday for Kennard, Tyus Jones, and 3-4 unprotected 1st's and pick swaps. Who says no?

Ick. Kennard is a shorter version of Jingles (current, old, slow Jingles not prime Jingles). Tyus would improve our back up PG but at the cost of a starting caliber guard (atm we have only one of those) also one of our best defenders?