The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

TroyD92 · Post #941 » by **TroyD92** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 3:57 pm

I think Dedmon is better than Vucevic and you don't need to trade Jabari to get him

Post #942 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:01 pm

The points made about Vucevic make the case for Orlando to NOT make the trade for an injured soon to be RFA that wants a big contract.

I get that teams going nowhere like to trade for potential. But a guy coming off 2 ACL's whose contract is up doesn't fit that mold. If he still had a couple of years left on his rookie deal then maybe.

LogitechBucks · Post #943 » by **LogitechBucks** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:35 pm

Profound23 wrote:
RRyder823 wrote:
LogitechBucks wrote: Many of us believe the Bucks are closer than you do. We have the 3rd best wing in the League in Kris Middleton. I only see Bradley Beal and Klay Thompson being better. We have Giannis the 3rd best player in the league right now. We have the best pg we have had in years. We have Malcomn Brogdon who is trending upwards and is a player every championship quality team needs. We have the perfect roll player in Snell. Our only real needs are an effective, consistent center and a couple better bench players. So by moving Jabari and one or two of either Telly, Delly, and Henson along with anyone else not previously mentioned, we can acquire those missing pieces in the very near future and those moves will make us a contender this year and next year and then we can make wholesale roster changes if we come up short.

This whole thing about needing another Superstar is so overblown. The Rockets have one superstar and a bunch of roll players and their the best team in the west. San Antonio keeps winning with their best player out. All we need is to improve our bench and get a legitmate center and we will be a very strong team unlike anything we have had in a long, long time.

Seriously. WTF did I just read?

Sent from my SM-G892A using RealGM mobile app

Every time Khris has a couple of good games people want to call him elite. They have to then use a bunch of qualifiers to make him elite like saying players like Giannis, Lebron, Durant, Klay...etc aren’t swingmen even though we all know we are in an era of positionless basketball.

It’s a whole bunch of prequalifiers to make him elite like : “What other 6’8 play who wears a double digit number with the same two numbers and name starts with a K can do what he can do?”

Then you answer Klay Thompson and they say, “Ha, wrong loser, Klay is 6’7” not 6’8.”

I didn't read anyone saying Kris Middleton was "Elite". I know I didn't say that. I think he is very good and has been a huge part of big wins and without his major contributions we don't win 4 or 5 of the games we won. Kris is currently averaging career highs in many statistical categories.

Here are his numbers 20.1 PPG 6.2 RB 4.3 ASST 1.3ST 47% FG 37% 3PT 53% eFG 88% FT

If you account for Kris slow start to the season from 3 point land you can only conclude he is playing great basketball. He is shooting 55% from three in his last 5 games. He will likely be back hovering around 40% from 3 point land in next couple of weeks and possibly sooner.

What possible "elite" player could we realistically get to replace him? The answers is no one.

TroyD92 · Post #944 » by **TroyD92** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:36 pm

Is there a date yet for Jabari's return?

LUKE23 · Post #945 » by **LUKE23** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:38 pm

They have said February. My guess is we see him first game post ASB.

LogitechBucks · Post #946 » by **LogitechBucks** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:40 pm

TroyD92 wrote:I think Dedmon is better than Vucevic and you don't need to trade Jabari to get him

Come on man...I told you I would show you through statistics and advanced statistics and I did that. Then you say this? Dedmond can only play about 25 minutes a game because he is fragile and not very strong.

I edited out the personal attack. Knock it off MD

Post #947 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:40 pm

I'd say calling Middleton the 3rd best wing in the league equates to elite (shrug)

Post #948 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:43 pm

LUKE23 wrote:They have said February. My guess is we see him first game post ASB.

Most likely. And the trade deadline is before then (Feb 8)

LogitechBucks · Post #949 » by **LogitechBucks** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:47 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:The points made about Vucevic make the case for Orlando to NOT make the trade for an injured soon to be RFA that wants a big contract.

I get that teams going nowhere like to trade for potential. But a guy coming off 2 ACL's whose contract is up doesn't fit that mold. If he still had a couple of years left on his rookie deal then maybe.

Once again you are probably right about the inherent risk factors. I also think sometimes teams have to shake things up. I don't know if Orlando would trade for him. I do know John Hmmonds is there and he drafted Jabari. He also signed Henson to his current deal. Maybe he would bite. Maybe not. I am only posting ideas that I think make the most sense for the Bucks future. Centers who stretch the floor a few and far between. I think Vucevic makes us really good. I have no issue with those that disagree.

Rainwater · Post #950 » by **Rainwater** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:51 pm

LogitechBucks wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:Vuc is a good player in his own right, but he is not the answer for this team. Not by a long sight.

Vuc is literally Monroe with a jumper. Great offensive player but terrible defender.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Nikola Vucevic Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM 2.7 (21st best out of 446)
Total RPM 3.49 (21st best out of 446)
Total RPM Wins 3.45 (19th best out of 446)
Player Impact Rating 13.5 (48th best out of 423 1 slot ahead of DeAndre Jordan)
17.0PPG 9RB 3.1 ASST 1 STL 1.1 BLK 49%FG 34% 3PT 54% EFG% 81% FT

Kevin Love Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM 2.7 (192 best out of 446)
Total RPM 1.95 (41st best out of 446)
Total RPM Wins 2.40 (35th out of 446)
Player Impact Rating 16.1 (19th out of 423)
19.2 PPG 10.5RB 1.8 ASST .7STL .4BLK 47%FG 37%3PT 54%EFG% 90% FT

Jabari Parker Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM -1.61 (408th best out of 468)
Total RPM -.78 RPM (188th best out of( 468)
Total RPM Wins 2.58 (158th best out of (468)
Player Impact Rating 12.1 (76th best out of 486)
20.1 PPG 6RB 2.8 ASST 1.0STL .4BLK 49%FG 36.5%3PT 53%EFG% 74% FT

Stats don’t lie. Nikola Vucevic is a much better defender than anyone here wants to admit . He is 21st best in the league so far this season.. Byambo is suppose to be the better of the two defensively but the stats don’t bear that out. I can’t count the number of people raving how we should have signed Byambo in the past. One even suggest we get him this year even with his 17M per season. I wont point out his name.

Jabari is beyond awful on defense. His -1.61 rating is 408th worse in the league. This negative rating puts him the bottom feeders in the league. Even with his potent offense he still has a total RPM in the negative. The team simply plays better without him as evidenced by last year. While he can score a little more than Nikola Vucevic, his overall play is much worse. For a supposed offensive juggernaut, even his efficiency FG% is behind Vucevic.

Vucevic is very close to overall performance of Kevin Love. Love shoots 3’s slightly better and is shooting 90% from the line this season. Love is getting 1.5 more boards per game. However the defensive nod has to go to Vucevic. He has more steals, more blocks, and much, much better defensive ranking. Vucevic is just plain a better defender than Love. Many suggested Love would be a perfect fit next to Giannis. I also suggested it but he is not obtainable this season.

Vucevic is 2 years younger than love is on a two year 12.5M attractive contract. Vucevic is playing almost as well as Love this season and also would be a perfect fit with Gianiss. Vucevic is still improving as time goes on and would be a great addition if you actually consider true facts and not one liners.

Those who say Vucevic’s defense is so bad, are saying that Jabari, one of the leagues 408th worst defenders, is some how not a major liability defensively to this team is just being disingenuous.

This clearly shows that Vucevic would add wins to are season total and help win some playoff series as well.

Nothing against you but at this point I stopped reading your post. It's like you are watching the stats and not watching the game. I have seen alot of Vuc and Vucevic is LITERALLY a Monore with a jumper or even a kanter. He makes his living in the post. Vuc just recently added the three point shoot to his game. And trust me when I tell you there is a reason a terrible Magic team is so willing to trade Parker for Vuc.

LogitechBucks · Post #951 » by **LogitechBucks** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 4:57 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:I'd say calling Middleton the 3rd best wing in the league equates to elite (shrug)

I posted about 3 weeks ago How Chris was in the top of all SF/PF in both assists and rebounding and his numbers have gotten better since. He has also raised his ppg average and his shooting percentage by a significant margins since then. If he continues on this path then I stand by my statement.

Profound23 · Post #952 » by **Profound23** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 5:06 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:I'd say calling Middleton the 3rd best wing in the league equates to elite (shrug)

Pretty much. If we had Giannis AND the third best wing in the league, not even Kidd could stop us from being in the Finals.

Ok, maybe that’s a bit too far but you know what I mean.

Back to the subject at hand, the biggest reason I don’t want to trade Khris right now (barring some crazy offer coming our way like Cousins) is I’m interested to see what him and Parker look like together for an extended period of time.

Come playoff time: Bledsoe-Brogdon-Khris-Parker-Giannis (or Bledsoe-Khris-Giannis-Parker-Thon if Thon can get his $#!t together) should be able to run any team not named Golden State out of the gym.

Post #953 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 5:06 pm

LogitechBucks wrote: I didn't read anyone saying Kris Middleton was "Elite". I know I didn't say that.

LogitechBucks wrote:We have the 3rd best wing in the League in Kris Middleton

I don't get it. You say he's not elite and you say he's a top 3 NBA wing.

But of course then you hedge

LogitechBucks wrote:If he continues on this path then I stand by my statement

LogitechBucks · Post #954 » by **LogitechBucks** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 5:08 pm

Rainwater wrote:
LogitechBucks wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
Vuc is literally Monroe with a jumper. Great offensive player but terrible defender.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Nikola Vucevic Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM 2.7 (21st best out of 446)
Total RPM 3.49 (21st best out of 446)
Total RPM Wins 3.45 (19th best out of 446)
Player Impact Rating 13.5 (48th best out of 423 1 slot ahead of DeAndre Jordan)
17.0PPG 9RB 3.1 ASST 1 STL 1.1 BLK 49%FG 34% 3PT 54% EFG% 81% FT

Kevin Love Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM 2.7 (192 best out of 446)
Total RPM 1.95 (41st best out of 446)
Total RPM Wins 2.40 (35th out of 446)
Player Impact Rating 16.1 (19th out of 423)
19.2 PPG 10.5RB 1.8 ASST .7STL .4BLK 47%FG 37%3PT 54%EFG% 90% FT

Jabari Parker Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM -1.61 (408th best out of 468)
Total RPM -.78 RPM (188th best out of( 468)
Total RPM Wins 2.58 (158th best out of (468)
Player Impact Rating 12.1 (76th best out of 486)
20.1 PPG 6RB 2.8 ASST 1.0STL .4BLK 49%FG 36.5%3PT 53%EFG% 74% FT

Stats don’t lie. Nikola Vucevic is a much better defender than anyone here wants to admit . He is 21st best in the league so far this season.. Byambo is suppose to be the better of the two defensively but the stats don’t bear that out. I can’t count the number of people raving how we should have signed Byambo in the past. One even suggest we get him this year even with his 17M per season. I wont point out his name.

Jabari is beyond awful on defense. His -1.61 rating is 408th worse in the league. This negative rating puts him the bottom feeders in the league. Even with his potent offense he still has a total RPM in the negative. The team simply plays better without him as evidenced by last year. While he can score a little more than Nikola Vucevic, his overall play is much worse. For a supposed offensive juggernaut, even his efficiency FG% is behind Vucevic.

Vucevic is very close to overall performance of Kevin Love. Love shoots 3’s slightly better and is shooting 90% from the line this season. Love is getting 1.5 more boards per game. However the defensive nod has to go to Vucevic. He has more steals, more blocks, and much, much better defensive ranking. Vucevic is just plain a better defender than Love. Many suggested Love would be a perfect fit next to Giannis. I also suggested it but he is not obtainable this season.

Vucevic is 2 years younger than love is on a two year 12.5M attractive contract. Vucevic is playing almost as well as Love this season and also would be a perfect fit with Gianiss. Vucevic is still improving as time goes on and would be a great addition if you actually consider true facts and not one liners.

Those who say Vucevic’s defense is so bad, are saying that Jabari, one of the leagues 408th worst defenders, is some how not a major liability defensively to this team is just being disingenuous.

This clearly shows that Vucevic would add wins to are season total and help win some playoff series as well.

Nothing against you but at this point I stopped reading your post. It's like you are watching the stats and not watching the game. I have seen alot of Vuc and Vucevic is LITERALLY a Monore with a jumper or even a kanter. He makes his living in the post. Vuc just recently added the three point shoot to his game. And trust me when I tell you there is a reason a terrible Magic team is so willing to trade Parker for Vuc.

I would stop reading my post to if I wanted to back up my point with generalizations and or opinions. I watch a lot of Orlando games and he is "not" the reason they are losing. He is way more athletic than Monroe, He handles the ball much better and has real form on his shot. He passes the ball better than people realize. He still gets a ton of boards even though Aaron Gordon is crashing the boards hard on every possession. You don't get 48th in overall player impact rating because you suck. Watch this and tell me if there are any comparisons to Monroe whatsoever....

Watch on YouTube

LogitechBucks · Post #955 » by **LogitechBucks** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 5:14 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
LogitechBucks wrote: I didn't read anyone saying Kris Middleton was "Elite". I know I didn't say that.

LogitechBucks wrote:We have the 3rd best wing in the League in Kris Middleton

I don't get it. You say he's not elite and you say he's a top 3 NBA wing.

But of course then you hedge

LogitechBucks wrote:If he continues on this path then I stand by my statement

I am pressed for time. But I will show you later a logical argument can be made he is playing as the third best wing at this point in the season. If you want to call that "Elite" so be it. I consider "Elite to be Harden, James, Curry, Durrant, Thompson, A.Davis, Gianiss types my bad.....

Watch for my next expert, logical analysis coming soon (Kris Middleton). Have a wonderful day!!!!!

Post #956 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 5:25 pm

Will predict Jabari takes the court for a 10 minute stint on Friday, January 26th against the Nets at the BC.

Ruhiel · Post #957 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 5:44 pm

Wouldn't say Khris is the 3rd best wing but his size matters. He's playing power forward in some lineups.

Given his age you're not getting a young offensive upgrade at SG for him. And there's no young shooting guards that can defend and score from the 2-3-4. That's where his height comes in.

In terms of tall shooting guards Klay, George, Middleton, Derozan, Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Jimmy Butler, Robert Covington. You go shorter you lose on defensive versatility but of course you have Harden a cut above everyone but then you got Mitchell, Beal, Booker, Derozan, McCollum, Oladipo, Fournier, Lou Williams.

Khris is in elite company as a big SG who can also play the stretch 4. With other guards you have to play less talented big men to get some size on the floor.
He might not be klay or Paul George but
Khris brings size and scoring.

Rainwater · Post #958 » by **Rainwater** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 5:45 pm

LogitechBucks wrote:
Rainwater wrote:
LogitechBucks wrote:
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Nikola Vucevic Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM 2.7 (21st best out of 446)
Total RPM 3.49 (21st best out of 446)
Total RPM Wins 3.45 (19th best out of 446)
Player Impact Rating 13.5 (48th best out of 423 1 slot ahead of DeAndre Jordan)
17.0PPG 9RB 3.1 ASST 1 STL 1.1 BLK 49%FG 34% 3PT 54% EFG% 81% FT

Kevin Love Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM 2.7 (192 best out of 446)
Total RPM 1.95 (41st best out of 446)
Total RPM Wins 2.40 (35th out of 446)
Player Impact Rating 16.1 (19th out of 423)
19.2 PPG 10.5RB 1.8 ASST .7STL .4BLK 47%FG 37%3PT 54%EFG% 90% FT

Jabari Parker Stats/Ranking
Defensive: DPRM -1.61 (408th best out of 468)
Total RPM -.78 RPM (188th best out of( 468)
Total RPM Wins 2.58 (158th best out of (468)
Player Impact Rating 12.1 (76th best out of 486)
20.1 PPG 6RB 2.8 ASST 1.0STL .4BLK 49%FG 36.5%3PT 53%EFG% 74% FT

Stats don’t lie. Nikola Vucevic is a much better defender than anyone here wants to admit . He is 21st best in the league so far this season.. Byambo is suppose to be the better of the two defensively but the stats don’t bear that out. I can’t count the number of people raving how we should have signed Byambo in the past. One even suggest we get him this year even with his 17M per season. I wont point out his name.

Jabari is beyond awful on defense. His -1.61 rating is 408th worse in the league. This negative rating puts him the bottom feeders in the league. Even with his potent offense he still has a total RPM in the negative. The team simply plays better without him as evidenced by last year. While he can score a little more than Nikola Vucevic, his overall play is much worse. For a supposed offensive juggernaut, even his efficiency FG% is behind Vucevic.

Vucevic is very close to overall performance of Kevin Love. Love shoots 3’s slightly better and is shooting 90% from the line this season. Love is getting 1.5 more boards per game. However the defensive nod has to go to Vucevic. He has more steals, more blocks, and much, much better defensive ranking. Vucevic is just plain a better defender than Love. Many suggested Love would be a perfect fit next to Giannis. I also suggested it but he is not obtainable this season.

Vucevic is 2 years younger than love is on a two year 12.5M attractive contract. Vucevic is playing almost as well as Love this season and also would be a perfect fit with Gianiss. Vucevic is still improving as time goes on and would be a great addition if you actually consider true facts and not one liners.

Those who say Vucevic’s defense is so bad, are saying that Jabari, one of the leagues 408th worst defenders, is some how not a major liability defensively to this team is just being disingenuous.

This clearly shows that Vucevic would add wins to are season total and help win some playoff series as well.

Nothing against you but at this point I stopped reading your post. It's like you are watching the stats and not watching the game. I have seen alot of Vuc and Vucevic is LITERALLY a Monore with a jumper or even a kanter. He makes his living in the post. Vuc just recently added the three point shoot to his game. And trust me when I tell you there is a reason a terrible Magic team is so willing to trade Parker for Vuc.
I would stop reading my post to if I wanted to back up my point with generalizations and or opinions. I watch a lot of Orlando games and he is "not" the reason they are losing. He is way more athletic than Monroe, He handles the ball much better and has real form on his shot. He passes the ball better than people realize. He still gets a ton of boards even though Aaron Gordon is crashing the boards hard on every possession. You don't get 48th in overall player impact rating because you suck. Watch this and tell me if there are any comparisons to Monroe whatsoever....

Watch on YouTube

Lol you make it seem like this is video is his typical play. His defense is not the best and this won't help the bucks. He literally gets most of points in the paint and has a good mid range jumper. His three point shoot is recent. He only shot 9 3 point shoots 2 years ago and shoot 75 last year. Before then, just as Monore, he was in the paint. He does not handle the ball lol. Monroe is a better passer, that has always been one of the best part of his game. I am not saying he sucks but there is no real difference between he and Monroe other than the jumper. And Orlando is one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and Vuc is not helping apparently. They even have a thread about it on their fourm where they blame him for their woes. I live in Florida and I am telling you he is liteally a Monore, I really don't know what else to tell you.

I am consistently on that magic fourm and your love for him is greater than most magic fans.

coolhandluke121 · Post #959 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 6:40 pm

Maybe it's time to finally trade Jabari for Crowder + youth/picks. I'd do it straight-up for Crowder and Zizic. Then you'd be locked into ~$10m in salary for 2.5 years instead of having a guy due for a big raise. I think Crowder had a crazy summer with being traded and his mom dying so there's hope for a bounce-back there. He'll only be 29 when his contract is up in 2.5 years. And Zizic could bring a much-needed element to the Bucks at a rock-bottom price (3/$8m after this year).

I could imagine including Delly for Shumpert or something like that too. Shumpert's deal is up at the same time as Mirza, Khris, Bledsoe, and Brogdon. That gives you lots of options in 2019.

TroyD92 · Post #960 » by **TroyD92** » Sat Dec 9, 2017 6:42 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:Maybe it's time to finally trade Jabari for Crowder + youth/picks. I'd do it straight-up for Crowder and Zizic. Then you'd be locked into ~$10m in salary for 2.5 years instead of having a guy due for a big raise. I think Crowder had a crazy summer with being traded and his mom dying so there's hope for a bounce-back there. He'll only be 29 when his contract is up in 2.5 years. And Zizic could bring a much-needed element to the Bucks at a rock-bottom price (3/$8m after this year).

I could imagine including Delly for Shumpert or something like that too. Shumpert's deal is up at the same time as Mirza, Khris, Bledsoe, and Brogdon. That gives you lots of options in 2019.

You act like that offer is on the table.