RealGM

Since there may not be an NBA season, I figured we could have a general college basketball thread. I know we have a 2012 NBA prospects thread but I figured this could focus on college basketball as a whole, not just prospects for the 2012 draft.

CBS just released their Pre-Season All-America Lists. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... es-for-poy

1st Team:
G - Jordan Taylor (WIS)
G - John Jenkins (VAN))
F - Harrison Barnes (UNC)
F - Thomas Robinson (KAN)
C - Jared Sullinger (tO$U)

2nd Team:
G - Kendall Marshall (UNC)
G - Tu Holloway (XAV)
F - Anthony Davis (KEN)
F - Perry Jones (BAY)
C - John Henson (UNC)

3rd Team:
G - Ashton Gibbs (PIT)
G - Austin Rivers (DUKE)
F - Jeremy Lamb (CON)
F - Terrence Jones (KEN)
F - Trevor Mbakwe (MIN)

4th Team:
G - Aaron Craft (tO$U)
G - Terrence Ross (WAS)
F - Elias Harris (GONZ)
F - Reeves Nelson (UCLA)
C - Tyler Zeller (UNC)

Thoughts:
~ When was the last time UW had a 1st team pre-season All-America player? Was Devin Harris?
~ UNC has 4 pre-season All-America players.

CBS pre-season top 25(and one) : http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... uy-and-one

Notables: tO$U at #5. Michigan #20. Wisconsin #24. Marquette no where to be seen, which is pretty surprising, IMO. My Zags at #18. 3 B1G teams. 6 Big East teams.

Andy Katz's pre-season top 25: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/s ... id=6513197

Notables: tO$U at #3. Wisconsin #10. Michigan #24. Marquette #13. My Zags at #25. 3 B1G teams. 6 Big East Teams.

UW starts Nov 5 v. UW Stevens Point: http://www.uwbadgers.com/sports/m-baskb ... sched.html
MU starts Nov 11 v. Mount St. Mary's: http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-bas ... sched.html

What is this "basketball" sport you speak of?

Just got my Wisco season BB tickets, and man is their non conference schedule just awful this year. I already knew that heading in, but this is a reminder for me. Usually, it's not THAT strong, but there have been seasons with some good games.

No idea how UW will be this year. They'll obviously make the tourney, they could do that with five guys from this forum and Ryan, but I'm a little concerned with scoring outside of Taylor. I also realize I say the same things every season and it never matters.

The defense should be incredible though, even better than normal.

As far as the rest of the country, UNC is the clear favorite, with Marshall/Barnes/Henson/Zeller and I'm sure 17 Mc AA's coming in. That team has everything you want, heady PG, true legit #1 scorer, shot blocking big man, and a PF to do all the interior dirty work.

I'm hoping to make it to the Kohl Center for both the Marquette game (Dec 3) and the Minnesota game (Feb 28). Probably won't be getting Marquette season tickets because I only made it to 4 or 5 games last year which didn't make it a worthwhile investment. May still end up going to a couple of Marquette home games though. Gonzaga plays at Illinois the same day as UW v. Marquette so if I don't go to the UW game there is a chance I might go to the Gonzaga game.

Seth Curry snub.

more like Doron Lamb snub. He's going to be the best player on UK this season.

Lot of great teams up top. UNC and UK are absolutely stacked and Ohio State isn't far behind. UCONN has major pieces but I'm sensing that they disappoint everyone's expectations this year. Not sure if Lamb is totally ready to be the #1 guy, and Drummond is an incredible talent, but might not dominate like you'd think. Their lack of a good point guard is going to hurt them on offense a lot IMO, unless Napier is vastly improved.

Xavier in the Elite 8, book it.

Wisconsin is also intriguing. Great defense obviously but I always question their offense. If Brusewicz plays like he did at the end of last year and hits 3s that will help A LOT. Still though, a lot of stall ball and Jordan Taylor chucking to beat the shot clock is not a recipe for success on that end. For such a disciplined team/program you'd think Bo would actually run some good sets instead of setting basketball back 55 years and going 4 corners before settling for a low percentage shot.

Turk Nowitzki wrote:What is this "basketball" sport you speak of?

This reminds me of a Simpsons episode that was just on last night so it's fresh in my mind. Lisa asking Mr. Burns if he recycled and he goes "re-cy-cling?"

Coaches Poll Released. UNC, Kentucky, and tO$U come in at #1, #2, #3, respectively.

Wisconsin comes in at #14.

Marquette comes in at #21.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... s/_/poll/2

Seems a little high for the Badgers to me.

Turk Nowitzki wrote:Seems a little high for the Badgers to me.

Taylor, Bruiser, Gasser as a core and some pretty nice potential impact players in Brust and Berggren. Anything you get from Evans or Wilson is icing on the cake and it always seems like one freshman always steps up. Maybe Marshall or Uthoff (who reminds me of one of my favorite Badgers, Zach Morley) this year. I think this is one of the most talented teams I've ever seen at UW.

Ill-yasova wrote:

Turk Nowitzki wrote:Seems a little high for the Badgers to me.

Taylor, Bruiser, Gasser as a core and some pretty nice potential impact players in Brust and Berggren. Anything you get from Evans or Wilson is icing on the cake and it always seems like one freshman always steps up. Maybe Marshall or Uthoff (who reminds me of one of my favorite Badgers, Zach Morley) this year. I think this is one of the most talented teams I've ever seen at UW.

I don't think they have near the talent of last year. 2 big guys who can knockdown 3s and one who could score from the midpost is basically the best thing you could ask for for a Bo Ryan team. Combine that with role players who can hit 3s and it's a good mix for the Badgers. Maybe Bergren can fill the void in the post, it's just, if he's the main big you're relying on, I have a feeling the team is headed home in the 2nd round.

This is one of the most talented Badger teams you've seen? Look, I'm a huge Badger fan and always will be, but if you think this is one of the most talented teams then I'm seriously questioning your scouting here.

Not only are we not the most talented team this year, but we're not even as talented as last year. How can you lose somebody like Jon Leuer (who got drafted in the NBA - something that rarely happens for the UW), replace him with virtually nobody of comparable skill, and say it's the most talented team you've seen?

I think we're REALLY going to struggle to score this year. I think Taylor averages 22-25 PPG with lower efficiency because teams will constantly double team him.

Not only do have few guys who can create on this team, but we're also missing that knock-down shooter that we've had for the last 5-6 years with Bohannon and then Nankivil. I realize Gasser is a great shooter by the numbers, but he has yet to prove that he can knock down 3s at a higher volume, which he'll ultimately get this year.

I think Taylor/Gasser average 35 PPG combined and the rest of the team seriously struggles. I don't see anyone else putting up double-figures.

Interested to see how good Austin Rivers is and is he good enough to be a one and done player also how much has Harrison Barnes improved his game cause towards the end of last season he was rounding into form a little. Can't Wait.

Lawlz @ people judging Badger players on last year.

2010: "I don't know how we'll score. Leuer is good but Taylor isn't polished yet."
2009: "We basically have Hughes and some unknowns."
2008: "Landry, Krabbenhoft, Taylor...nobody special..."

And so on down the list to every year since we've been good.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with "the most talented team" that he's seen in a while, but if you're judging the team based on previous years, you're a bit off base here.

Leuer went from not bulk scoring against bad teams, uncoordinated big man to dominant player. Taylor looked like he could barely dribble his freshman year. Landry turned from a nice role player into an inside focus. Do I have to keep going on how every year these guys will improve?

GrendonJennings wrote:Lawlz @ people judging Badger players on last year.

2010: "I don't know how we'll score. Leuer is good but Taylor isn't polished yet."
2009: "We basically have Hughes and some unknowns."
2008: "Landry, Krabbenhoft, Taylor...nobody special..."

And so on down the list to every year since we've been good.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with "the most talented team" that he's seen in a while, but if you're judging the team based on previous years, you're a bit off base here.

Leuer went from not bulk scoring against bad teams, uncoordinated big man to dominant player. Taylor looked like he could barely dribble his freshman year. Landry turned from a nice role player into an inside focus. Do I have to keep going on how every year these guys will improve?

You're overreacting. Real Badger fans knew Taylor was good, just not THAT good. As a freshman and sophomore, you could just tell he was good. That's not the same thing as some kid coming out of nowhere like is going to have to happen this year.

And as far as 2008 goes, that team was loaded with talent compared to this year. Landry, Krabbenhoft, and Hughes were not special players but all were all decent players. You apparently don't like to compare players based on how they play in previous years, but I'm saying right now that I'd take Landry or Krabbenhoft over any front court player for THIS YEAR. Obviously some of these guys may develop and turn out to be great players, but I think you're overdoing it if you think some guy is going to come out of nowhere and average 10+ points, especially in the front court (save the Bruser)

If you can't see that the Badgers might struggle to score I don't know what to tell you. They struggled to score many times last year with great personnel for Ryan's system. This year they have a lot of unproven players who havent played many meaningful minutes and aren't necessarily the greatest fits for the offensive scheme. Right now it looks like the Badgers have one great offensive player who can score and create, potentially one guy who might be able to score in the post, and a few guys who can hit spot up jumpers but aren't reliable creating for themselves yet. Maybe they will add that to their games, maybe not. Either way there is no way around that Wisconsin isn't as talented as last year. Factor in that Bo doesn't really have any great offensive sets he can go to to get guys easy buckets and he has the team wait far too long to initiate the offense and its easy to see the team going through scoring droughts when the outside shots arent falling.

Yeah, I'm a real idiot because in a group of solid recruits the past few years, nobody is going to emerge.

Yeah, I knew guys like Jordan Taylor were good too his first few years, but if you tell me that you thought he'd be a great scoring factor for them, you're lying to yourself.

Apparently I'm an idiot, but the pollsters that believed they have enough talent to be top 15 are also in that boat?

This 10 ppg barrier is kinda funny because you suggested that only Bruser could surpass that in the front court. Interesting, because most years, the Badgers only have 3 10+ ppg players anyways.

GrendonJennings wrote:Yeah, I'm a real idiot because in a group of solid recruits the past few years, nobody is going to emerge.

Yeah, I knew guys like Jordan Taylor were good too his first few years, but if you tell me that you thought he'd be a great scoring factor for them, you're lying to yourself.

Apparently I'm an idiot, but the pollsters that believed they have enough talent to be top 15 are also in that boat?

Nobody called you an idiot, don't overreact

You seem to be missing the point here. Even if you want to pretend that I couldn't tell Jordan Taylor wasn't going to be a scorer, he still averaged 10 PPG his sophomore year. Nobody on our current team has done that . The closest guy to doing anything like that is Gasser averaging 6 PPG as a freshman.

I'm not saying it's impossible that guys are going to score points, but you act like good players come out of nowhere. That is not the case, ESPECIALLY in the Bo Ryan system. It takes years to develop players. Almost nobody comes on a Bo Ryan team, unproven and inexperienced, and scores the ball efficiently. But you seem to want to pretend that this is the case.

I just don't get where you think this miracle player is going to come from. Is it Ryan Evans? Berggren? the kid from Iowa?

I'm as big of a Badger fan as anybody but it's very difficult to see anyone besides Taylor, Gasser, or MAYBE Bruesewitz scoring more than 10 PPG. And I realize the 10 PPG is an artificial threshold that I created, but if you want to talk about team scoring - I'd still contend that we're going to have the lowest PPG team in years, as much as I hate to think about it.

It takes years develop guys, like when Jordan Taylor went from 1.6 PPG to 10 PPG between freshman and sophomore year?

Leuer went from 2.9 to 8.5 for his sophomore year and then continued to blow up after that.

Gasser went from 1.6 to 6.

Some of these guys it does take years for them to become a star, but the Badgers already have a star and they could very well have a very good 3-4 man supporting cast.

Again, I'm not totally agreeing with the "most talented" theory and I clearly realize that nobody is proven, but last year I thought "this was the year we fall apart" because you had the big 2 + Nankavil and I didn't think Taylor and Leuer would be able to create for themselves that well. Then we had a few role guys step up and those guys played much better than they did.

GrendonJennings wrote:It takes years develop guys, like when Jordan Taylor went from 1.6 PPG to 10 PPG between freshman and sophomore year?

Leuer went from 2.9 to 8.5 for his sophomore year and then continued to blow up after that.

Gasser went from 1.6 to 6.

Some of these guys it does take years for them to become a star, but the Badgers already have a star and they could very well have a very good 3-4 man supporting cast.

Again, I'm not totally agreeing with the "most talented" theory and I clearly realize that nobody is proven, but last year I thought "this was the year we fall apart" because you had the big 2 + Nankavil and I didn't think Taylor and Leuer would be able to create for themselves that well. Then we had a few role guys step up and those guys played much better than they did.

Jordan Taylor is an anomaly because he came into college with a horrible, broke jumpshot and has become an excellent shooter. That's pretty rare over a 2-year span at the college level.

Gasser was actually a freshman last year and averaged 6 PPG, and I think he's got serious potential to become a great scorer.

There's a lot of guys with potential on our roster, I just feel like it's going to be years before we see it develop. I really think the PF from Iowa is going to be a great player someday, I'm just not sure when.

I hope you're right and I'm underestimating this team, because I'd hate to see us struggle.