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Thompson

Asset management is a recurring problem. There just appears to be no vision, no long term plan

paulpressey25 wrote:

emunney wrote:I just don't like Klay Thompson, but I agree with the underlying point.

Fair commentary. And that is my main point, i.e., we just keep devaluing these assets and never can build anything.

We missed on our franchise-turning moment. Had Bogut turned out to be a true franchise player so many other pieces would have fallen into place. Instead, the team is stuck in the cycle of stopgaps and tinkering around the edges. Without the courage to truly blow things up to get the draft pick, max cap space, whatever, this team is never truly building a contender. Even had the Bucks pulled off one of the other trades many on here were talking about (e.g., Afflalo), it's really just putting together a second-round team at best. Either one of Redick or Thompson really gets us nowhere. We overvalue the assets we have and end up not having a sensible direction.

Klay Thompson is pretty bad. I mean, sure, he's younger, but at some point you have to look and see that Redick is twice the player that he is.

InsideOut wrote:Someday Hammond might figure out why you don't sign these guys in the first place.

Good one

JJ on Klay's contract

EzeDoesIt wrote:Klay Thompson is pretty bad. I mean, sure, he's younger, but at some point you have to look and see that Redick is twice the player that he is.

Yeah I get the contract situation and the age factor of course, but after watching like 10 gsw games on league pass..I could tell if I was a gsw I would be ripping my hair out. Such a dumb player, don't like him at all. I'd be extremely suprised if he ever becomes as good as JJ is now. Like I said earlier, having Klay as a long term solution at sg would do nothing for this team.

KeyRabbit wrote:

paulpressey25 wrote:

emunney wrote:I just don't like Klay Thompson, but I agree with the underlying point.

Fair commentary. And that is my main point, i.e., we just keep devaluing these assets and never can build anything.

We missed on our franchise-turning moment. Had Bogut turned out to be a true franchise player so many other pieces would have fallen into place. Instead, the team is stuck in the cycle of stopgaps and tinkering around the edges. Without the courage to truly blow things up to get the draft pick, max cap space, whatever, this team is never truly building a contender. Even had the Bucks pulled off one of the other trades many on here were talking about (e.g., Afflalo), it's really just putting together a second-round team at best. Either one of Redick or Thompson really gets us nowhere. We overvalue the assets we have and end up not having a sensible direction.

I blame ownership/front office for the Bogut era not being what it should have been. Watching Bogut in college is depressing. He was so confident in everything he did. The Bucks blew their opportunity in the moves that followed that summer. They should have sat on cap space and let Bogut be the #1 option from the start, while pulling an OKC and acquiring picks and young assets. Instead they give Redd the max, bring back Gadz, overpay Simmons, and trade for Magloire. They then move Bogut to the 4, and relegate him to a garbage man role on offense while letting the guards shoot them out of games. Destroyed the confident all around beast that Bogut was. To me the turning point of the franchise was giving Redd the max and going for it rather than the rebuild that was gifted to them.

I thought this would be a Klay blow fest in here..glad to see some have changed their tone on him. I would rather have Redick if it was for a 1-2 run

Not a big fan of Klay's game thus far, but he is young and tall, so I guess there's that.

wichmae wrote:If we are lining up the players by skills alone and how they would fit on the roster I take JJ.

Not to pick on ur post, because there are a few posters in agreement with u on this (myself included, there's no doubt in my mind JJ is clearly the better player right now and fits our roster better than Klay as well), but the interesting question in my mind for the posters who agree with us that JJ is the better player and the better fit, would u guys trade JJ for Klay if there was no trade deadline and the offer was on the table right this second? Because for me, even though I like JJs game and like how hes gonna fit next to BJ (relative to BJs fit with Monta especially) better than how Klay would fit atm, I still trade JJ for Klay immediately before GS could change their minds...

paulpressey25 wrote:

emunney wrote:I just don't like Klay Thompson, but I agree with the underlying point.

Fair commentary. And that is my main point, i.e., we just keep devaluing these assets and never can build anything.

It seemed like for awhile on WSSP yesterday we reached a tipping point where people would start to see through this.

But we will see Redick tomorrow night shoot 7-10 in a Bucks win, and we'll forget once again all our underlying screwups.

I would be interested to know if the guys who are excited about Redick and voted for him in this thread would trade him strait up for Klay if that were magically possible and GS was giving us a take it or leave it offer that we had to accept or reject within 1 minute...

jakecronus8 wrote:I blame ownership/front office for the Bogut era not being what it should have been. Watching Bogut in college is depressing. He was so confident in everything he did. The Bucks blew their opportunity in the moves that followed that summer. They should have sat on cap space and let Bogut be the #1 option from the start, while pulling an OKC and acquiring picks and young assets. Instead they give Redd the max, bring back Gadz, overpay Simmons, and trade for Magloire. They then move Bogut to the 4, and relegate him to a garbage man role on offense while letting the guards shoot them out of games. Destroyed the confident all around beast that Bogut was. To me the turning point of the franchise was giving Redd the max and going for it rather than the rebuild that was gifted to them.

It isn't even a matter of hindsight being 20/20, either. This board has consistently made logical, if not completely informed, counterarguments against every single move this franchise has made over the past several years. Their hit rate on being correct on the outcome is pretty damn high, while the Bucks continue to flounder without direction except in the drive to "make the playoffs." To be fair, there have been many other factors like injuries that have thwarted the master scheme, but the fact that we're debating these 2 guys as the better option is just depressing.

whatthe_buck!? wrote:
I would be interested to know if the guys who are excited about Redick and voted for him in this thread would trade him strait up for Klay if that were magically possible and GS was giving us a take it or leave it offer that we had to accept or reject within 1 minute...

IMO, very few people are 'excited' about Redick. I just think Klay Thompson is overhyped. Just watch him play a few games. He doesn't know what to do with himself when he doesn't have the ball, he isn't any good on defense, and he is a bit of a chucker. He's not particularly athletic. He's not a great transition player or great half court player. He isn't a good rebounder or ball handler. He's not a master thief. I'd like a tall guard but I just can't get excited about Klay Thompson. He's tall, and he shoots OK (though a bit too often).

He probably would just get traded for Redick if we had him rotting on the bench anyway.

Fred Hoiberg

jakecronus8 wrote:I blame ownership/front office for the Bogut era not being what it should have been. Watching Bogut in college is depressing. He was so confident in everything he did. The Bucks blew their opportunity in the moves that followed that summer. They should have sat on cap space and let Bogut be the #1 option from the start, while pulling an OKC and acquiring picks and young assets. Instead they give Redd the max, bring back Gadz, overpay Simmons, and trade for Magloire. They then move Bogut to the 4, and relegate him to a garbage man role on offense while letting the guards shoot them out of games. Destroyed the confident all around beast that Bogut was. To me the turning point of the franchise was giving Redd the max and going for it rather than the rebuild that was gifted to them.

I love this post. Just an amazing and unique argument. Bogut was such a gifted player to watch in college. He had all the tools. After 5 years in the bucks organization, he made it on the NBA third team as primarily a defensive specialist. We f*cked up a player who had a ridiculously high ceiling.

In his first couple years, if we had tried to instill confidence in him instead of just treating him like ur average rookie I think his career could have turned out completely differently. More than anything else, THAT'S what the Aussie posters especially should be mad about when it comes to Bucks fan's ripping Bogie, if he goes to a team that committed to building around him instead of trying to fit him into one ill-advised 8th seed run after another he is a top ten NBA player right now. This guy was a young player with Tim Duncan potential and we relied on him -forced him is more accurate- to fill the role of a Marcus Camby.

The cool thing about thinking about Boguts career this way is that it allows us to blame Beaker more than just about anyone in the Bucks organization for him not turning into our franchise cornerstone lol...

Redick was completely useless at Thompson's age btw, if the Magic hadn't invested a lottery pick in him he might of been out of the league. Players do get better.

step3profit wrote:IMO, very few people are 'excited' about Redick. I just think Klay Thompson is overhyped. Just watch him play a few games. He doesn't know what to do with himself when he doesn't have the ball, he isn't any good on defense, and he is a bit of a chucker. He's not particularly athletic. He's not a great transition player or great half court player. He isn't a good rebounder or ball handler. He's not a master thief. I'd like a tall guard but I just can't get excited about Klay Thompson. He's tall, and he shoots OK (though a bit too often).

He probably would just get traded for Redick if we had him rotting on the bench anyway.

Lol that last sentence is so true sadly. That's exactly what would've happened. As for the first line of your post, I believe that there actually are quite a few people (including myself) that are legitimately excited to plug in a SG of Redicks caliber into the starting lineup, if nothing else it's going to improve BJs efficiency greatly. That said however, I still trade Redick for Klay strait up if the offer was on the table this second. I guess like PP keeps hammering home, it all comes back to having (or not having) a clear vision and a set direction for the future of franchise.

As for Bogut, I can't say he ever had 'Duncan potential' but I do agree that we messed his development up. He really only had one post move(lefty hook) but in college he showed he had fairly consistent jumper that I'm sure was drilled out of him in the NBA because the belief big men need to live in the post with their back to the basket. Bogut was at his best facing his man up and taking them off the dribble, I think if he could consistently hit the mid range jumper which he has shown the capability of doing in college and even internationally it would of really opened his offensive game up. In the end tho, I think he was always going to have confidence issues since that's probably his personality as a person and as a player. Defensively his first couple years he would just plant his feet, stick his hands in the air, and wouldn't challenge any shots and then all the sudden a few seasons later he turns into a dominant defensive big and shotblocker. Have to wonder how much of that early stuff was coached into him.

Thompson in a landslide.

And who the better player is right now (Redick, obviously) is completely beside the point.

JayMKE wrote:As for Bogut, I can't say he ever had 'Duncan potential' but I do agree that we messed his development up. He really only had one post move(lefty hook) but in college he showed he had fairly consistent jumper that I'm sure was drilled out of him in the NBA because the belief big men need to live in the post with their back to the basket. Bogut was at his best facing his man up and taking them off the dribble, I think if he could consistently hit the mid range jumper which he has shown the capability of doing in college and even internationally it would of really opened his offensive game up. In the end tho, I think he was always going to have confidence issues since that's probably his personality as a person and as a player. Defensively his first couple years he would just plant his feet, stick his hands in the air, and wouldn't challenge any shots and then all the sudden a few seasons later he turns into a dominant defensive big and shotblocker. Have to wonder how much of that early stuff was coached into him.

He had the potential tools and the intelligence to be molded into whatever we wanted and the player we effectively molded him into was mostly a defensive specialist who was at best a 3rd option on offense on a true contending team. I think the fact that he could so radically change the player he was defensively is convincing evidence to support the argument that he could've been turned into any kind of offensive weapon at center that u could imagine with the right kind of skilled determined coaching...