Bucks acquire Dellavedova in S&T deal 4yr/$38 (pg 27)

Chapter29 · Post #881 » by **Chapter29** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:24 pm

I must say that I am disappointed. I will give him the full year to truly evaluate. The guy is clearly in a slump.

What I do know is he is a backup for us. Brogdon is the superior player.

Delly is a fine but expensive backup. May find himself moved as we probably could use some more quickness in the backcourt ultimately. If he can hit that 3 ball....maybe he stays.

coolhandluke121 · Post #882 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:34 pm

Somewhere in here I said several times that they should be trying to find the next Dellavedova, not over-pay the current one. Guys like that have short primes and it's all about opportunity. Yet another dude that would require an asset to unload his salary.

That said, they should start him again. He needs Giannis. Giannis likes him. Brogdon and Monroe are great together. The bench needs more help. You're making Brogdon, Monroe, and Dellavedova all less valuable by benching Dellavedova. Brogdon because he doesn't get the same opportunities to run the offense with Monroe, Dellavedova and Monroe because they don't get to play as many minutes with the players that they need to complement them.

Brogdon is a rookie. The wall is a legit thing. Give him ~28 mpg off the bench. Give Delly 20. Ditto Monroe + Plumlee in a parallel platoon. Greg can't sustain good energy for 30 mpg, but high 20's off the bench is good for him.

Saying Brogdon should start because he's the better player is so cliche. He should get more minutes because he's the better player. That's all that matters.

Chapter29 · Post #883 » by **Chapter29** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:38 pm

Starting and most minutes in my eyes are the same thing. Either way. Generally it is your starters who have the most minutes.

Baddy Chuck · Post #884 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:45 pm

Finding the next Delly is easier said than done. I think almost every team is looking for a Delly (well, at least one that makes a jumper...) and you probably wouldn't need more than 1 hand to count the decent guys. I mean you got someone like Beverly as the staple, then guys like Galloway, Moore, Temple, who all saw significant pay days. Then who? Maybe like TJ McConnell?

stillgotgame · Post #885 » by **stillgotgame** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:46 pm

Delly shooting a 3 from anywhere but the corner is like a 9 year old trying to get the ball up to a 10 foot rim for the first time. His form is brutal.
He fed off Lebron in Cleveland - someone posted w/ Lebron vs w/o Lebron 3 point percentage that was very telling - he needs to feed off Giannis. Get back to Giannis distributing the damn ball

coolhandluke121 · Post #886 » by **coolhandluke121** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:08 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:Finding the next Delly is easier said than done. I think almost every team is looking for a Delly (well, at least one that makes a jumper...) and you probably wouldn't need more than 1 hand to count the decent guys. I mean you got someone like Beverly as the staple, then guys like Galloway, Moore, Temple, who all saw significant pay days. Then who? Maybe like TJ McConnell?

I don't really agree that a lot of teams are looking for one. Sure, they'd all love to have a guy like him at the price Cleveland paid, but all the charm is gone once they get paid. The reason we don't see a lot of guys like him is simply that there are so many pg's who are flat-out much better and so many young guys whose teams want to give them a chance over such a low-upside guy.

Guys like Mike James, Derek Fisher, Charlie Bell, Eric Snow, Patrick Beverley, Darrell Armstrong, Charlie Ward, and Erick Strickland were all originally acquired for 2nd-round picks or less if I'm not mistaken. All of them had a few good years. If you're actually targeting a player like that, you should be able to unearth one. I think the reason we don't see more of them is just because teams aren't usually targeting them. It takes a certain situation for players like that to find their niche. I do think guys like that are underrated and underpaid (defense and hustle usually are), but my point is that the Bucks should be able to exploit that market inefficiency and get a guy like that for much less than they're paying Delly.

Heck, even Kyle Lowry and George Hill have been paid about half what they're worth in recent memory.

ETA: Completely forgot to add that we literally drafted a better version of Delly in the 2nd round in the very year in which I advocated against signing him because we should be able to find a player like that on the scrap heap.

randy84 · Post #887 » by **randy84** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:34 pm

ampd wrote:
Jez2983 wrote:Limited player expected to do much more than he is capable of. Fails. Not shocked.

I don't buy it.

Right now he's a backup PG playing 20 mpg expected to hit open 3s and play good defense. That's exactly what he's capable of and he's been doing neither for a while now.

Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's pouting because Brogdon is starting (doubt it), maybe he's just in a slump, but he's not being asked to get major PPGz or average 10 assists or do anything other than be exactly the roleplayer he was in Cleveland.

Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

Gianstoppable · Post #888 » by **Gianstoppable** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:40 pm

randy84 wrote:
ampd wrote:
Jez2983 wrote:Limited player expected to do much more than he is capable of. Fails. Not shocked.

I don't buy it.

Right now he's a backup PG playing 20 mpg expected to hit open 3s and play good defense. That's exactly what he's capable of and he's been doing neither for a while now.

Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's pouting because Brogdon is starting (doubt it), maybe he's just in a slump, but he's not being asked to get major PPGz or average 10 assists or do anything other than be exactly the roleplayer he was in Cleveland.

Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

Delly was going to make well over 2 million this year regardless though, its not like the Bucks could have gotten him for 2 million a year

randy84 · Post #889 » by **randy84** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Gianstoppable wrote:
randy84 wrote:
ampd wrote:
I don't buy it.

Right now he's a backup PG playing 20 mpg expected to hit open 3s and play good defense. That's exactly what he's capable of and he's been doing neither for a while now.

Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's pouting because Brogdon is starting (doubt it), maybe he's just in a slump, but he's not being asked to get major PPGz or average 10 assists or do anything other than be exactly the roleplayer he was in Cleveland.

Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

Delly was going to make well over 2 million this year regardless though, its not like the Bucks could have gotten him for 2 million a year

And that's why you stay away from those guys. They are the classic example of guys that get overpaid.

MikeIsGood · Post #890 » by **MikeIsGood** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:49 pm

randy84 wrote:
ampd wrote:
Jez2983 wrote:Limited player expected to do much more than he is capable of. Fails. Not shocked.

I don't buy it.

Right now he's a backup PG playing 20 mpg expected to hit open 3s and play good defense. That's exactly what he's capable of and he's been doing neither for a while now.

Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's pouting because Brogdon is starting (doubt it), maybe he's just in a slump, but he's not being asked to get major PPGz or average 10 assists or do anything other than be exactly the roleplayer he was in Cleveland.

Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

Unfortunately it's worse than that. They paid him $9M to be a starter, thinking there was more there that we hadn't seen. We could be so luck as for him to be a competent backup role player at some point. If he keeps shooting like this he isn't much of one.

Fotis St · Post #891 » by **Fotis St** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:42 pm

MikeIsGood wrote:
randy84 wrote:
ampd wrote:
I don't buy it.

Right now he's a backup PG playing 20 mpg expected to hit open 3s and play good defense. That's exactly what he's capable of and he's been doing neither for a while now.

Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's pouting because Brogdon is starting (doubt it), maybe he's just in a slump, but he's not being asked to get major PPGz or average 10 assists or do anything other than be exactly the roleplayer he was in Cleveland.

Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

Unfortunately it's worse than that. They paid him $9M to be a starter, thinking there was more there that we hadn't seen. We could be so luck as for him to be a competent backup role player at some point. If he keeps shooting like this he isn't much of one.

We have a bad history paying backups that we think they are starters .... Monroe, Plumlee and Dellavedova are the proof of my statement...

DingleJerry · Post #892 » by **DingleJerry** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:52 pm

I think ChL has nailed it in the last few posts. We got the next delly with a 2nd round pick this year.

Generally speaking this board consensus is more correct on moves than our actual front office. But have to admit this is one the board got wrong as well. There was full on mancrush on delly last year and now halfway through this year the tune has changed. I'd also say board consensus was wrong on Hensons deal, seemed like most had the attitude that it was a fair deal due to the cap spike. Guess we're not perfect, lol

crkone · Post #893 » by **crkone** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:58 pm

Henson's deal is fine without Plumlee's deal. Delly is fine for what he is. He just needs a better SG next to him to relieve him of more playmaking responsibilities like starting the initial action on offense.

DingleJerry · Post #894 » by **DingleJerry** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:02 pm

You could get better play than Henson for league min of someone off the scrap heap. He's being paid 11 mil. He's the exact type of blah player you should let some dumb team overpay and replace with a hustle guy on the cheap. Problem is we're the dumb team

yannisk · Post #895 » by **yannisk** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:25 pm

BadgersBucks wrote:Generally speaking this board consensus is more correct on moves than our actual front office.

Is it? I have a feeling that the board consensus is also wrong most of the time

Plumlee board consensus hated it, we were right
Henson most were happy he is useless
Jabari most wanted Wiggins, Jabari is better
Delly he will play better is not a bad player but I don't understand all this love and definitely not for 10 million
Monroe everybody was ecstatic then everybody considered him useless and wanted him traded after 3 months
Teletovic board was split
Beasley, Terry almost everybody hated them. Considering how much they are getting paid they are the best summer acquisitions
Knight/MCW board wanted to get rid of Knight but did not want MCW and preferred the pick, board was right.

So my take is that the board was right about the Knight deal and the Plumlee deal and wrong about everything else.

MikeIsGood · Post #896 » by **MikeIsGood** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:30 pm

I think Jabari/Wiggins and Henson deal were splits. But, not to pat myself on the back (honestly), I may be misremember-ing because I was on the other side and I know others were, too.

Also, Jabari is having a better season now and, again, I wanted him at draft and still, but the debate there is certainly still open.

DingleJerry · Post #897 » by **DingleJerry** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:32 pm

That's still right more than our front office, haha.

I wasn't around years ago so I was basing that comment off some of the summaries I've seen by people like PP going back many years. And I was kind of trying to be nice while saying almost everyone was wrong on those

The Rodzilla · Post #898 » by **The Rodzilla** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:42 pm

randy84 wrote:
ampd wrote:
Jez2983 wrote:Limited player expected to do much more than he is capable of. Fails. Not shocked.

I don't buy it.

Right now he's a backup PG playing 20 mpg expected to hit open 3s and play good defense. That's exactly what he's capable of and he's been doing neither for a while now.

Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's pouting because Brogdon is starting (doubt it), maybe he's just in a slump, but he's not being asked to get major PPGz or average 10 assists or do anything other than be exactly the roleplayer he was in Cleveland.

Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

the bucks gave him $4.5-$5m

Prince12 · Post #899 » by **Prince12** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:46 pm

The Rodzilla wrote:
randy84 wrote:
ampd wrote:
I don't buy it.

Right now he's a backup PG playing 20 mpg expected to hit open 3s and play good defense. That's exactly what he's capable of and he's been doing neither for a while now.

Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's pouting because Brogdon is starting (doubt it), maybe he's just in a slump, but he's not being asked to get major PPGz or average 10 assists or do anything other than be exactly the roleplayer he was in Cleveland.

Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

the bucks gave him $4.5-$5m

No they didn't. 9.6 per.

The Rodzilla · Post #900 » by **The Rodzilla** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:53 pm

Prince12 wrote:
The Rodzilla wrote:
randy84 wrote:
Funny thing is that Cleveland paid him less than $ 2 million to be that backup role player. The Bucks decided to give him $9 million to be a backup role player.That's how dumb our FO is.

the bucks gave him $4.5-$5m

No they didn't. 9.6 per.

which is going to be about a $4.5m/$5m cap hit of previous years, people need to adjust for salary cap inflation