ATL - Post Trade Deadline Edition

[HurricaneKid]

As someone who's never really even particularly liked Westbrook as a player or personality, I'm baffled by the amount of unwarranted hate he gets for having one of the most impressive regular seasons of all-time. What he does in the playoffs is completely irrelevant.

Unwarranted?

Yes, when you have to go into excruciating detail to nit-pick a guy who posted a 30+ PER year, led the league in scoring while shooting above average efficiency, and posted the highest BPM and VORP ever while leading his team to nearly 50-wins, it's completely unwarranted, and biased criticism.

I'm simply not arguing with people about it anymore. If anyone seriously objects and says that what he just accomplished wasn't an "all-time great season" in the history of basketball, I'm ignoring you and assuming you either have a bull **** agenda to push, or you just can't for some reason appreciate the game of basketball.

This is RealGM. Its what we do.

Shooting above average? You know his TS% is .002 higher than league avg right?

Here are the TS% for the league's top scorers:

Westbrook - .554
Harden - .613
IT2 - .625
AD - .579
DeRo .552
Dame - .586
Cousins - .562
LeBron - .619
Kawhi - .611
Curry - .624
Irving - .580
KAT - .618
KD - .651
Butler - .586

Here are the expected top 7 MVP candidates
.554 - Westbrook
.613- Harden
.611- Kawhi
.619 - LeBron
.624 - Curry
.625 - IT2
.651 - KD

Are you sure you want to go near efficiency?

Instead you want to talk about box score supported stats like BPM and VORP?

My appreciation for basketball is exactly why I don't want the selfish brand of basketball to be rewarded. Watch some Youtube clips. His play is dictated by his statlines. He looks like Rondo from a few years ago when he needs a few assists. He is 15 feet from his man hoping to reign in a rebound when he needs a few boards. Its disgusting. If he played the right way he might be one of my favorite players ever. But there is no question he prioritizes his stats in front of the team. And if you can't see that you just aren't looking.

And that's not coming from me, that's coming from Zach Lowe:
"If you don't think Russell Westbrook is stat padding his rebounds, you're just blindfully ignorant or not watching.

[MilTownBucks]

Just got done getting a massage from Zanik's wifes sister here at my work and she said that he was the first person Orlando called about the GM job...not sure if news or not..

[M-C-G]

Just got done getting a massage from Zanik's wifes sister here at my work and she said that he was the first person Orlando called about the GM job...not sure if news or not..

Welp...it's good that he was wanted, is it bad that the same people that want him wanted Henningan?

[HurricaneKid]

Hennigan sealed his fate awhile long ago. Knew that white board wouldn't matter much

I'm just saddened someone that had Teletovic on his board is no longer in a position of power.

[Prez]

Enjoy the comedy then, because yes, I think running all things through Westbrook, when you have guys like Adams, who is probably fear the deer level Bogut, maybe better?

He's not even remotely close to FTD Bogut, and Thunder fans have been really disappointed in him this season.

Kanter who can create his own shot similar to Moose, Taj Gibson, and a bunch of guys that are there to stretch the floor, Abrines, Morrow, McDermott, Grant, Sabonis (who was suppose to but isn't), Lauvergne, there are more pieces on that team than people are making it out to be.

You're seriously going to talk up these guys?

I'm also not sure how you can talk about how bad the back ups are and then flaunt his on/off stats as being an awesome barometer. I think we all agree that their back up PG situation has been really bad, doubly so given the offense is so dependent on one guy, which would naturally lead you to the conclusion that Westbrook should have awesome on/off stats, given this offense is built around him and the drop off behind him at the position. They made a mistake in not upgrading that position while they were making all these trades and probably expected Cameron Payne not to be so sucky.

This is the whole point. You don't just get to pick and choose which parts of the roster you consider when talking about his help. The fact that they don't have a quality backup and they consistently collapse without him is nothing but a massive negative for that cast. There's no other way to twist it.

But this is all getting away from my initial argument...I think he is over rated, I think they will struggle in the playoffs, and assuming they don't, I am open to re-evaluating my opinion on him, all while thinking his usage is ridiculous and he was padding stats all year.

In summary, I think OKC went out of their way this season to go over the top around building around Westbrook to try and make people forget about Durant, he put up gaudy stats and in spite of that, I think he is over rated.

If "building around Westbrook" = putting bad basketball players around Westbrook, then okay, sure.

[jute2003]

meh, Westbrook's a stat chaser but he is an impressive stat chaser. That part shouldn't be up for debate. I don't think it's fair to say the players around him suck. They do basically what any teammates on a team built around Westbrook should do. They play defense and the ones that can shoot, shoot. They need more talent but most teams that lose their MVP level superstar will end up needing more talent.

Just like most "debates" on here, the truth or the reality is somewhere in the middle.

[M-C-G]

Enjoy the comedy then, because yes, I think running all things through Westbrook, when you have guys like Adams, who is probably fear the deer level Bogut, maybe better?

He's not even remotely close to FTD Bogut, and Thunder fans have been really disappointed in him this season.

Kanter who can create his own shot similar to Moose, Taj Gibson, and a bunch of guys that are there to stretch the floor, Abrines, Morrow, McDermott, Grant, Sabonis (who was suppose to but isn't), Lauvergne, there are more pieces on that team than people are making it out to be.

You're seriously going to talk up these guys?

I'm also not sure how you can talk about how bad the back ups are and then flaunt his on/off stats as being an awesome barometer. I think we all agree that their back up PG situation has been really bad, doubly so given the offense is so dependent on one guy, which would naturally lead you to the conclusion that Westbrook should have awesome on/off stats, given this offense is built around him and the drop off behind him at the position. They made a mistake in not upgrading that position while they were making all these trades and probably expected Cameron Payne not to be so sucky.

This is the whole point. You don't just get to pick and choose which parts of the roster you consider when talking about his help. The fact that they don't have a quality backup and they consistently collapse without him is nothing but a massive negative for that cast. There's no other way to twist it.

But this is all getting away from my initial argument...I think he is over rated, I think they will struggle in the playoffs, and assuming they don't, I am open to re-evaluating my opinion on him, all while thinking his usage is ridiculous and he was padding stats all year.

In summary, I think OKC went out of their way this season to go over the top around building around Westbrook to try and make people forget about Durant, he put up gaudy stats and in spite of that, I think he is over rated.

If "building around Westbrook" = putting bad basketball players around Westbrook, then okay, sure.

Hard for Adams to be more than he is when he has 16% usage, I mean he is decently efficient, concedes rebounds to his PG, and unless he regressed a lot defensively, the disappointment around him is hard to understand.

I was "talking up" those guys with regards to their ability to shoot the three and open things up for other guys. I think we all agree there is value in that in this day and age.

And for a team that made as many moves as they did, simply bringing in a Rondo to run to the second unit would have taken tons of the pressure off that second unit and he was probably available for peanuts as they looked to improve their roster.

At the end of the day, "putting bad basketball players around Westbrook" is a absolute stretch. But it doesn't matter because if I am right and they get ousted from the playoffs, people will ignore that too much Westbrook was a problem and that he was all by himself and I totally disagree with that.

Like I said, go ahead and disagree, I don't have a problem with it. But before you also used the word "agenda" which is a bit of a joke too, given I probably have 5 Westbrook post before we started a discussion around him. Agenda is when PP talks about our owners, when Mickey Davis complains about Clay Mathews making 13M, when Chuck D talks about Euros, when Baddy talks about the D league, when our Greek friends don't acknowledge Giannis isn't perfect.

I just have an opinion, which I have made pretty clear, disagree, no problem but it isn't like I have been on anti-Russ soapbox all year.

[tydett]

Like I said, go ahead and disagree, I don't have a problem with it. But before you also used the word "agenda" which is a bit of a joke too, given I probably have 5 Westbrook post before we started a discussion around him. Agenda is when PP talks about our owners, when Mickey Davis complains about Clay Mathews making 13M, when Chuck D talks about Euros, when Baddy talks about the D league, when our Greek friends don't acknowledge Giannis isn't perfect.

I resent that other examples of agendas don't include Supreme making obscure cultural references and me not-so-discretely And-1'ing every one of them.

[M-C-G]

Like I said, go ahead and disagree, I don't have a problem with it. But before you also used the word "agenda" which is a bit of a joke too, given I probably have 5 Westbrook post before we started a discussion around him. Agenda is when PP talks about our owners, when Mickey Davis complains about Clay Mathews making 13M, when Chuck D talks about Euros, when Baddy talks about the D league, when our Greek friends don't acknowledge Giannis isn't perfect.

I resent that other examples of agendas don't include Supreme making obscure cultural references and me not-so-discretely And-1'ing every one of them.

Too many too list, I could have added Chonestone's subtle use of sarcasm despite not using green font, the agenda of using the word "elite" to describe above average around here among many others.

[Bucksfan28]

Like I said, go ahead and disagree, I don't have a problem with it. But before you also used the word "agenda" which is a bit of a joke too, given I probably have 5 Westbrook post before we started a discussion around him. Agenda is when PP talks about our owners, when Mickey Davis complains about Clay Mathews making 13M, when Chuck D talks about Euros, when Baddy talks about the D league, when our Greek friends don't acknowledge Giannis isn't perfect.

I resent that other examples of agendas don't include Supreme making obscure cultural references and me not-so-discretely And-1'ing every one of them.

Too many too list, I could have added Chonestone's subtle use of sarcasm despite not using green font, the agenda of using the word "elite" to describe above average around here among many others.

Stop pushing your anti-agenda agenda on people

[M-C-G]

I resent that other examples of agendas don't include Supreme making obscure cultural references and me not-so-discretely And-1'ing every one of them.

Too many too list, I could have added Chonestone's subtle use of sarcasm despite not using green font, the agenda of using the word "elite" to describe above average around here among many others.

Stop pushing your anti-agenda agenda on people

DAMN, you saw right through me!!

[raferfenix]

So where do we think Melo is going?

"We've not been able to win with him on the court," said Jackson. "I think the direction with our team is that (Carmelo) would be better off somewhere else."

Jackson said he met with Anthony and that it was a cordial conversation.

Anthony has a full no-trade clause which means the Knicks will need his approval to execute any trade. Jackson said they had "an indication of teams" that Anthony would be amenable to joining.

"That’s a big hole to fill," said Jackson when asked about what they would seek in exchange for Anthony. "We want a significant player that can hopefully fill that role."

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245621/Phil-Jackson-Confirms-Knicks-Will-Try-To-Trade-Carmelo-Anthony

[raferfenix]

Also the Knicks' cap situation could fluctuate if Melo gets dealt first but either way could see them being interested in Monroe again.

Looks like Phil will have $18+ million to play with either way.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/243084/The-Maximum-Available-2017-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams-Version-10

[M-C-G]

Also the Knicks' cap situation could fluctuate if Melo gets dealt first but either way could see them being interested in Monroe again.

Looks like Phil will have $18+ million to play with either way.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/243084/The-Maximum-Available-2017-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams-Version-10

Are they able to amnesty Noah? Or stretch provision available?