OT: LBJ vs MJ

[jschligs]

Except for the times he got swept?

Except for when he deferred to Paxton and Kerr for game winning shots...

yep, total, not the last 3 shots of a game, he would have taken matters in his own hands. you think MJ would have allowed Kyrie to dribble for 12 sec and launch a fade away, he would have demanded the ball, alpha style. If it were Jordan that passed it to Korver last night and missed , MJ wouldn't pass Korver the ball til next season.

But when you know Kyrie can hit big shots (aka last years finals) after having a 37 point game, I'd be ok with letting Kyrie shoot. And a wide open Korver, I don't like it, but fine. The JR running to the corner shot, now that was terrible.

[DingleJerry]

Except for when he deferred to Paxton and Kerr for game winning shots...

yep, total, not the last 3 shots of a game, he would have taken matters in his own hands. you think MJ would have allowed Kyrie to dribble for 12 sec and launch a fade away, he would have demanded the ball, alpha style. If it were Jordan that passed it to Korver last night and missed , MJ wouldn't pass Korver the ball til next season.

But when you know Kyrie can hit big shots (aka last years finals) after having a 37 point game, I'd be ok with letting Kyrie shoot. And a wide open Korver, I don't like it, but fine. The JR running to the corner shot, now that was terrible.

I always find it funny when people advocate that the best players should play the worst way at crunch time by taking contested iso forced shots instead of playing proper offense. It's like they haven't watched the Spurs and Warriors the last 5 years.

ETA: but then bash Westbrook for being such a dumb player

[jschligs]

yep, total, not the last 3 shots of a game, he would have taken matters in his own hands. you think MJ would have allowed Kyrie to dribble for 12 sec and launch a fade away, he would have demanded the ball, alpha style. If it were Jordan that passed it to Korver last night and missed , MJ wouldn't pass Korver the ball til next season.

But when you know Kyrie can hit big shots (aka last years finals) after having a 37 point game, I'd be ok with letting Kyrie shoot. And a wide open Korver, I don't like it, but fine. The JR running to the corner shot, now that was terrible.

I always find it funny when people advocate that the best players should play the worst way at crunch time by taking contested iso forced shots instead of playing proper offense. It's like they haven't watched the Spurs and Warriors the last 5 years.

ETA: but then bash Westbrook for being such a dumb player

I was fine with Korver, but JR got the ball with 5 sec left on the shot clock and ran to the corner and shot a fading three. If anything, Kyrie (I think it was Kyrie) should've taken that shot. Lebron could've drove on the pass to Korver but he was wide open in the corner.

[Lippo]

yep, total, not the last 3 shots of a game, he would have taken matters in his own hands. you think MJ would have allowed Kyrie to dribble for 12 sec and launch a fade away, he would have demanded the ball, alpha style. If it were Jordan that passed it to Korver last night and missed , MJ wouldn't pass Korver the ball til next season.

But when you know Kyrie can hit big shots (aka last years finals) after having a 37 point game, I'd be ok with letting Kyrie shoot. And a wide open Korver, I don't like it, but fine. The JR running to the corner shot, now that was terrible.

I always find it funny when people advocate that the best players should play the worst way at crunch time by taking contested iso forced shots instead of playing proper offense. It's like they haven't watched the Spurs and Warriors the last 5 years.

ETA: but then bash Westbrook for being such a dumb player

Watch Hoosiers

[DingleJerry]

But when you know Kyrie can hit big shots (aka last years finals) after having a 37 point game, I'd be ok with letting Kyrie shoot. And a wide open Korver, I don't like it, but fine. The JR running to the corner shot, now that was terrible.

I always find it funny when people advocate that the best players should play the worst way at crunch time by taking contested iso forced shots instead of playing proper offense. It's like they haven't watched the Spurs and Warriors the last 5 years.

ETA: but then bash Westbrook for being such a dumb player

Watch Hoosiers

I appreciate the joke and reference, well done.

What if they'd run a second guy at Jimmy, should he have forced it and refused to pass since he's an Alpha and that's what Alphas do? That was a tie game too, I guess I can see how ISO can sometimes be logical there due to the low risk of turnover. Also, Jimmy was by the far the best shooter on the team. Lebron is not the best shooter on his team, if he can get Kyrie, JR or Korver a wide open look instead of him a contested one, he should do it.

Getting out of joking about Hoosiers, this one of the things i think is overlooked in LBJ getting picked on for not being clutch or aggressively 'the man' at crunch time. I don't think it's necessarily out of being some mentally weak choker like everyone implies. It's more that he has never quite perfected his jumper. He's ok at it, but just not quite good enough at it and he knows it so he tries to get a better shot than himself with a guy in his face. So it's more about actual basketball than some mental thing like ESPN tries to make it out to be. Jordan of course for sure had the crazy mentality, but he had also perfected that midrange J and was confident in it all times.

[chonestown]

Mike Jeff conquered flu-like gambling-related symptoms and Mark Eaton in the same game, while LeBaron couldn't solve the puzzle that is James Michael Macabee. Even blind man can see.

[Licensed to Il]

In the real life final game that Hoosiers is based on, the star player from Milan HS held the ball for four minutes before taking the final shot as time expired. Now that is some iso ball.

[DingleJerry]

In the real life final game that Hoosiers is based on, the star player from Milan HS held the ball for four minutes before taking the final shot as time expired. Now that is some iso ball.

I would assume the other team just sat back and let him hold it out? Still see that in HS these days without the shot clock. I know it happened a few years ago with a Dominican team with Diamond Stone and Wilson to pull the other team out of a zone D in the 4th.

[Licensed to Il]

I wasn't there, but assume the other team did not want to put him on the line. Also with no shot clock or rule demanding a player "makes a move to the basket or pass" this was a common strategy.

I have read the shot clock exists because in his early coaching days, Dean Smith would get a 6-8 point lead IN THE FIRST QUARTER and then go in to "four corners" for the rest of the game (just spreading the court, passing it back and forth without any attempt at a shot).

The game certainly has evolved.

[DingleJerry]

I wasn't there, but assume the other team did not want to put him on the line. Also with no shot clock or rule demanding a player "makes a move to the basket or pass" this was a common strategy.

I have read the shot clock exists because in his early coaching days, Dean Smith would get a 6-8 point lead IN THE FIRST QUARTER and then go in to "four corners" for the rest of the game (just spreading the court, passing it back and forth without any attempt at a shot).

The game certainly has evolved.

It said it on Wiki that he was "unchallenged." So yes they just let him hold it.

Another little trivia of Hoosiers (which I knew before just going to wiki now) is that team beat Oscar Robertson in the round of 8. O was a sophomore at the time. Wiki actually says they won by getting a 7 pt lead at half and then doing what you described above, basically a game of keep away.

[chonestown]

Hoosiers is Rudy with alcoholism, stratospherically better acting and the smoldering sexuality of Deb Winger. HOowever, this is the LJB vs MJ threqad and is immaterial to the discussion.

[ackypoo]

Hoosiers is Rudy with alcoholism, stratospherically better acting and the smoldering sexuality of Deb Winger. HOowever, this is the LJB vs MJ threqad and is immaterial to the discussion.

barbara hershey.

she sizzles like the fajitas at chi-chis.

[chonestown]

Hoosiers is Rudy with alcoholism, stratospherically better acting and the smoldering sexuality of Deb Winger. HOowever, this is the LJB vs MJ threqad and is immaterial to the discussion.

barbara hershey.

she sizzles like the fajitas at chi-chis.

This is the LBJ vs MJ thread, not the bureau of corrections. If you want to start a Deb Winger v Barb Hershy thread, do what you feel just make sure to lead the post title with "OT." Accepted RGM style matters.

[Licensed to Il]

How did a love story built around Gene Hackman and Barbara Hershey ever get the green light? Gross at the time. Gross in retrospect.

[machu46]

But when you know Kyrie can hit big shots (aka last years finals) after having a 37 point game, I'd be ok with letting Kyrie shoot. And a wide open Korver, I don't like it, but fine. The JR running to the corner shot, now that was terrible.

I always find it funny when people advocate that the best players should play the worst way at crunch time by taking contested iso forced shots instead of playing proper offense. It's like they haven't watched the Spurs and Warriors the last 5 years.

ETA: but then bash Westbrook for being such a dumb player

I was fine with Korver, but JR got the ball with 5 sec left on the shot clock and ran to the corner and shot a fading three. If anything, Kyrie (I think it was Kyrie) should've taken that shot. Lebron could've drove on the pass to Korver but he was wide open in the corner.

To be fair, that's the exact type of shot that Cleveland pays JR to take. Taking those outrageous fadeaway 3's is the only thing he's good at.

[HurricaneKid]

JR might have had the most spectacular shooting night I have ever witnessed. He was 8/9 and had a contested quarter beater, two contested shot clock rainmakers, a 4 point play (if he had made the FT) and a few more insanely difficult shots. He might be one of the better bad shot makers ever.

[DingleJerry]

JR might have had the most spectacular shooting night I have ever witnessed. He was 8/9 and had a contested quarter beater, two contested shot clock rainmakers, a 4 point play (if he had made the FT) and a few more insanely difficult shots. He might be one of the better bad shot makers ever.

I've always had an irrational love for JR going back to Denver. I guess I was just impressed someone could shoot that well while being that high.

[ackypoo]

JR might have had the most spectacular shooting night I have ever witnessed. He was 8/9 and had a contested quarter beater, two contested shot clock rainmakers, a 4 point play (if he had made the FT) and a few more insanely difficult shots. He might be one of the better bad shot makers ever.

I've always had an irrational love for JR going back to Denver. I guess I was just impressed someone could shoot that well while being that high.

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