OT: LBJ vs MJ

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

IS THere a reason this thread doesn't have "vs KAJ" in it? Or do we discount him because he didn't have the fire these two had?

[GFreak34]

IS THere a reason this thread doesn't have "vs KAJ" in it? Or do we discount him because he didn't have the fire these two had?

Arguably Kareem is really close to Jordan and i could accept every argument made in favor of Kareem.

[DingleJerry]

[color=#00FF00]Bill Russell has 11 ringz, he's the GOAT and no one can tell me different. MJ is barely even top 10.[/color]

[Bucksfan28]

Russell is the GOAT. 11 rings, 5 more than MJ. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. Matter of fact, MJ can't even touch most of the Celtics from the late 50's - late 60's, or Robert Horry for that matter.

-GFreak34 logic

EDIT: Damn, Dinglejerry beat me to it

[GFreak34]

Russell is the GOAT. 11 rings, 5 more than MJ. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. Matter of fact, MJ can't even touch most of the Celtics from the late 50's - late 60's, or Robert Horry for that matter.

-GFreak34 logic

EDIT: Damn, Dinglejerry beat me to it

No he s not, when you talk about the GOAT in the NBA, you talk about a player that actually played in the modern version of the NBA meaning 1. After the merge and 2. after the 3 point line.. so, anything prior to 1979, although it is nice to consider as part of the history can't be considered as anything else.. Russell won 11 against 8 teams.. So, GOAT means achievements in the modern NBA era and in the modern NBA era MJ has 6 and everyone else follows that.

And not only he has 6, he has 6 out of 6 with 6 finals mvp. Didn't got blown away by Dallas, or swept, or jumped ship or any of those things. MJ is the GOAT and that discussion is off the table for Lebron. If KD gets something like 4 in a row then he ll be in that discussion and will have a valid point.. Lebron won't.

[DingleJerry]

Russell is the GOAT. 11 rings, 5 more than MJ. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. Matter of fact, MJ can't even touch most of the Celtics from the late 50's - late 60's, or Robert Horry for that matter.

-GFreak34 logic

EDIT: Damn, Dinglejerry beat me to it

No he s not, when you talk about the GOAT in the NBA, you talk about a player that actually played in the modern version of the NBA meaning 1. After the merge and 2. after the 3 point line.. so, anything prior to 1979, although it is nice to consider as part of the history can't be considered as anything else.. Russell won 11 against 8 teams.. So, GOAT means achievements in the modern NBA era and in the modern NBA era MJ has 6 and everyone else follows that.

And not only he has 6, he has 6 out of 6 with 6 finals mvp. Didn't got blown away by Dallas, or swept, or jumped ship or any of those things. MJ is the GOAT and that discussion is off the table for Lebron. If KD gets something like 4 in a row then he ll be in that discussion and will have a valid point.. Lebron won't.

So you're saying circumstances matter huh, interesting...but only in that it backs up your predetermined opinion.

I find it odd that you say he didn't jump ship when he literally quit for 1.5 years. He also did get swept in the playoffs too. But yea it's better to do that in early rounds instead of the finals according to MJ truthers

[jschligs]

Russell is the GOAT. 11 rings, 5 more than MJ. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. Matter of fact, MJ can't even touch most of the Celtics from the late 50's - late 60's, or Robert Horry for that matter.

-GFreak34 logic

EDIT: Damn, Dinglejerry beat me to it

No he s not, when you talk about the GOAT in the NBA, you talk about a player that actually played in the modern version of the NBA meaning 1. After the merge and 2. after the 3 point line.. so, anything prior to 1979, although it is nice to consider as part of the history can't be considered as anything else.. Russell won 11 against 8 teams.. So, GOAT means achievements in the modern NBA era and in the modern NBA era MJ has 6 and everyone else follows that.

And not only he has 6, he has 6 out of 6 with 6 finals mvp. Didn't got blown away by Dallas, or swept, or jumped ship or any of those things. MJ is the GOAT and that discussion is off the table for Lebron. If KD gets something like 4 in a row then he ll be in that discussion and will have a valid point.. Lebron won't.

Yes massa, I'm sorry for questioning you

[averageposter]

I think there's an argument for a lot of those guys, but as hard as it is to try and compare the way things are to the way things were in the LBJ vs MJ debate its harder still before free agency, before the three point shot. Jordan's the standard for the modern era, whether that be because of his reign being contained in the era that had the three point shot for its entirety, free agencies beginnings in 88, or the transition to an era where a "small" could be the focal point of a team without a dominant big man which aside from the defensive rule changes places it most closely aligned with today. I do think the others mentioned have had their moment compared to Jordan but it always seems to end the same way.

[GFreak34]

Russell is the GOAT. 11 rings, 5 more than MJ. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. Matter of fact, MJ can't even touch most of the Celtics from the late 50's - late 60's, or Robert Horry for that matter.

-GFreak34 logic

EDIT: Damn, Dinglejerry beat me to it

No he s not, when you talk about the GOAT in the NBA, you talk about a player that actually played in the modern version of the NBA meaning 1. After the merge and 2. after the 3 point line.. so, anything prior to 1979, although it is nice to consider as part of the history can't be considered as anything else.. Russell won 11 against 8 teams.. So, GOAT means achievements in the modern NBA era and in the modern NBA era MJ has 6 and everyone else follows that.

And not only he has 6, he has 6 out of 6 with 6 finals mvp. Didn't got blown away by Dallas, or swept, or jumped ship or any of those things. MJ is the GOAT and that discussion is off the table for Lebron. If KD gets something like 4 in a row then he ll be in that discussion and will have a valid point.. Lebron won't.

So you're saying circumstances matter huh, interesting...but only in that it backs up your predetermined opinion.

I find it odd that you say he didn't jump ship when he literally quit for 1.5 years. He also did get swept in the playoffs too. But yea it's better to do that in early rounds instead of the finals according to MJ truthers

I am saying what it is.. It's not circumstantial, it is what it is.. Prior to the merge there where 2 leagues and thus there weren't all the best teams and all the best players in a singular league to compete against each other. I mean, wtf are we talking about here?? those are actually basics in every single basketball debate..

[Bucksfan28]

No he s not, when you talk about the GOAT in the NBA, you talk about a player that actually played in the modern version of the NBA meaning 1. After the merge and 2. after the 3 point line.. so, anything prior to 1979, although it is nice to consider as part of the history can't be considered as anything else.. Russell won 11 against 8 teams.. So, GOAT means achievements in the modern NBA era and in the modern NBA era MJ has 6 and everyone else follows that.

And not only he has 6, he has 6 out of 6 with 6 finals mvp. Didn't got blown away by Dallas, or swept, or jumped ship or any of those things. MJ is the GOAT and that discussion is off the table for Lebron. If KD gets something like 4 in a row then he ll be in that discussion and will have a valid point.. Lebron won't.

So you're saying circumstances matter huh, interesting...but only in that it backs up your predetermined opinion.

I find it odd that you say he didn't jump ship when he literally quit for 1.5 years. He also did get swept in the playoffs too. But yea it's better to do that in early rounds instead of the finals according to MJ truthers

I am saying what it is.. It's not circumstantial, it is what it is.. Prior to the merge there where 2 leagues and thus there weren't all the best teams and all the best players in a singular league to compete against each other. I mean, wtf are we talking about here?? those are actually basics in every single basketball debate..

Way to ignore the bolded in DJ's quote

[Bucksfan28]

Russell is the GOAT. 11 rings, 5 more than MJ. They shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. Matter of fact, MJ can't even touch most of the Celtics from the late 50's - late 60's, or Robert Horry for that matter.

-GFreak34 logic

EDIT: Damn, Dinglejerry beat me to it

No he s not, when you talk about the GOAT in the NBA, you talk about a player that actually played in the modern version of the NBA meaning 1. After the merge and 2. after the 3 point line.. so, anything prior to 1979, although it is nice to consider as part of the history can't be considered as anything else.. Russell won 11 against 8 teams.. So, GOAT means achievements in the modern NBA era and in the modern NBA era MJ has 6 and everyone else follows that.

And not only he has 6, he has 6 out of 6 with 6 finals mvp. Didn't got blown away by Dallas, or swept, or jumped ship or any of those things. MJ is the GOAT and that discussion is off the table for Lebron. If KD gets something like 4 in a row then he ll be in that discussion and will have a valid point.. Lebron won't.

Horry has 7 in the modern era. The discussion is off the table for MJ at that point. Sorry man.

[DingleJerry]

No he s not, when you talk about the GOAT in the NBA, you talk about a player that actually played in the modern version of the NBA meaning 1. After the merge and 2. after the 3 point line.. so, anything prior to 1979, although it is nice to consider as part of the history can't be considered as anything else.. Russell won 11 against 8 teams.. So, GOAT means achievements in the modern NBA era and in the modern NBA era MJ has 6 and everyone else follows that.

And not only he has 6, he has 6 out of 6 with 6 finals mvp. Didn't got blown away by Dallas, or swept, or jumped ship or any of those things. MJ is the GOAT and that discussion is off the table for Lebron. If KD gets something like 4 in a row then he ll be in that discussion and will have a valid point.. Lebron won't.

So you're saying circumstances matter huh, interesting...but only in that it backs up your predetermined opinion.

I find it odd that you say he didn't jump ship when he literally quit for 1.5 years. He also did get swept in the playoffs too. But yea it's better to do that in early rounds instead of the finals according to MJ truthers

I am saying what it is.. It's not circumstantial, it is what it is.. Prior to the merge there where 2 leagues and thus there weren't all the best teams and all the best players in a singular league to compete against each other. I mean, wtf are we talking about here?? those are actually basics in every single basketball debate..

And you can get into a bunch of circumstance differences from mid 90s to now too, salary cap/structures, zone D, easier player movement via FA, and many more. I actually put MJ #1 also but this argument is dumb and the most annoying part to me is the staunch MJ d riders who act like it's not even close like he's Gretzky in hockey where there is no one else in his ballpark. These top 5ish guys are all darn close and we can point to strengths and weaknesses of all and argue in circles, but mostly we're going to end up with MJ at 1 as of now. At this point LBJ has done so much that if one can't admit he's at least in the discussion of GOAT and likely #2 then you're just being a hater.

[GFreak34]

I m done debating Lebron fans about it tbh... they ll always find a way to reverse the obvious in favor of the biggest loser of the game.. hell, even Shannon Sharpe - Lebrons biggest lover dismissed the case against Jordan, but here you all are.. In any case, the dude has 3 rings, he s a terrible shooter, probably the worst non-C free throw shooter that is considered as a star in the history.. he s a weak character that needed to move to Miami to actually win something and even there he lost to Dirk.. There are other players i can accept as arguably better than Jordan - Kareem being one of them.. But Lebron is a joke.. So, yeah Barkley was a force of nature and among the Greatest PF's this league has ever seen.. since we re not talking victories lets name him the GOAT.. every argument in favor of Lebron is funny as hell.. Considering the momentum of it, is even more funny.. If he manages to get his ass sweeped again then the entire sports world will be laughing at any1 making statements of greatness for him.. but again, feel free to adore him, doesnt change reallity though.

[GFreak34]

So you're saying circumstances matter huh, interesting...but only in that it backs up your predetermined opinion.

I find it odd that you say he didn't jump ship when he literally quit for 1.5 years. He also did get swept in the playoffs too. But yea it's better to do that in early rounds instead of the finals according to MJ truthers

I am saying what it is.. It's not circumstantial, it is what it is.. Prior to the merge there where 2 leagues and thus there weren't all the best teams and all the best players in a singular league to compete against each other. I mean, wtf are we talking about here?? those are actually basics in every single basketball debate..

Way to ignore the bolded in DJ's quote

He got sweeped the year he came back from retirement having played 10 games.. what a marvelous argument that is.. and what happen next? he came back sweeped Shaq's magic and won 3 championships in a row.. i mean come on, stop being hilarious over here.. lol

[DingleJerry]

I find it hilarious that you type that with a straight face while acting like the people like me are being the ridiculous ones. not one of us has made an outlandish claim and I don't even think any of us have said we'd put him #1. Also, I think if he gets swept again he'll finally match MJ in playoff losses via sweep. I think the SAS finals is the only other one for LBJ, when he was 22 yrs old and in the Finals.

[GFreak34]

So you're saying circumstances matter huh, interesting...but only in that it backs up your predetermined opinion.

I find it odd that you say he didn't jump ship when he literally quit for 1.5 years. He also did get swept in the playoffs too. But yea it's better to do that in early rounds instead of the finals according to MJ truthers

I am saying what it is.. It's not circumstantial, it is what it is.. Prior to the merge there where 2 leagues and thus there weren't all the best teams and all the best players in a singular league to compete against each other. I mean, wtf are we talking about here?? those are actually basics in every single basketball debate..

And you can get into a bunch of circumstance differences from mid 90s to now too, salary cap/structures, zone D, easier player movement via FA, and many more. I actually put MJ #1 also but this argument is dumb and the most annoying part to me is the staunch MJ d riders who act like it's not even close like he's Gretzky in hockey where there is no one else in his ballpark. These top 5ish guys are all darn close and we can point to strengths and weaknesses of all and argue in circles, but mostly we're going to end up with MJ at 1 as of now. At this point LBJ has done so much that if one can't admit he's at least in the discussion of GOAT and likely #2 then you're just being a hater.

Are we having problems on understanding the circumstance over the complete difference? Is it THE SAME thing to have a league and ALTER rules and to have 2 different leagues, with the best players spread among them and then MERGE into one??? There is nobody, NOBODY in the basketball world that won't tell you that when you take for account achievements in the NBA, they mean the NBA AFTER the merge.. it is THAT simple.. not my problem if you can't understand it

[ReasonablySober]

Jordan's been the favorite in the majority of his Finals' appearances, LeBron's been the underdog. I don't hold finals' records for or against either, but it's a fact to say that LeBron has faced tougher competition when he's made it to the end.

[DingleJerry]

I am saying what it is.. It's not circumstantial, it is what it is.. Prior to the merge there where 2 leagues and thus there weren't all the best teams and all the best players in a singular league to compete against each other. I mean, wtf are we talking about here?? those are actually basics in every single basketball debate..

Way to ignore the bolded in DJ's quote

He got sweeped the year he came back from retirement having played 10 games.. what a marvelous argument that is.. and what happen next? he came back sweeped Shaq's magic and won 3 championships in a row.. i mean come on, stop being hilarious over here.. lol

So you're the know it all here and you're wrong. He didn't get swept the year he came back. He got swept twice early in his career by Bird. He never won a playoff game vs Bird. Hope I was right about LBJ only being swept by the Spurs his first time lol, i never checked it.

[Bucksfan28]

I am saying what it is.. It's not circumstantial, it is what it is.. Prior to the merge there where 2 leagues and thus there weren't all the best teams and all the best players in a singular league to compete against each other. I mean, wtf are we talking about here?? those are actually basics in every single basketball debate..

Way to ignore the bolded in DJ's quote

He got sweeped the year he came back from retirement having played 10 games.. what a marvelous argument that is.. and what happen next? he came back sweeped Shaq's magic and won 3 championships in a row.. i mean come on, stop being hilarious over here.. lol

There's only one person being hilarious over here..and it's the guy who doesn't even know Jordan's full history.

[GFreak34]

I find it hilarious that you type that with a straight face while acting like the people like me are being the ridiculous ones. not one of us has made an outlandish claim and I don't even think any of us have said we'd put him #1. Also, I think if he gets swept again he'll finally match MJ in playoff losses via sweep. I think the SAS finals is the only other one for LBJ, when he was 22 yrs old and in the Finals.

HE LOST TO DALLAS BEING PART OF A SUPERTEAM.. LOL what SWEEPS AND NON SWEEPS AND SAS ARE YOU TELLING ME?? WHAT MORE THAN THIS DO YOU WANT TO EVEN DOUBT?