SOB Piece on John Hammond's tenure

[hege53190]

I actually think Hammond is the Tom Braatz (not Starr) of the Bucks.

Where I went with Starr was along the lines of the good guy thing. And I think GoS proves my point. Everyone who got to meet Hammond personally had that interaction color their judgement of how he operated the team.

Except Dano

Most legendary moment in all of RealGM history.

For those who weren't around, now is the perfect time to relive this story.

DanoMac met Hammond at a game once and they talked ball for a bit, Hammond ended up giving him his card. They texted now and then, and it could even be argued that Dano drafted Doron Lamb. After the Tobias Harris trade Dano posted Hammonds number here which inevitably led to Hammonds phone blowing up full of angry calls and texts. Somehow Howard Mass (rgm admin) got a hold of Dano's phone number and suspended him for 30 days (Bucks wanted him banned). Dano was forced to write an apology post (lol) and it was stickied here for the month he was suspended.

Most legendary moment with one of the most legendary posts.

a poster argued that having a direct line to the GM was an asset. Dano Mac fired back, I wasted an asset? Then Hammond taught me well.

I wish I had the direct line because the exchange was fantastic.

This was the nature of Hammond's tenure. He had some good moves that look great in hindsight but he also had moves that were terrible the moment they were made and look even worse with hindsight.

[paulpressey25]

Most legendary moment in all of RealGM history.

I was working out of State that week and remember for a 48-hour period Mark Stein keep dropping these tweets that we were engaged with the Clippers on some type of deal centered on Redick for Bledsoe. I was so stoked that might come off.

Then while I'm flying home the trade goes down. Landed at Mitchell and pulled up my phone to learn that we got "two 2nds". Think the thread was 30 pages by that point of complete outrage. The horse with Dano was already long out of the barn.

What I'll remember most about the Hammond era were those times where the Bucks were in dialogue with another team regarding a big trade over a multi-day period. And almost every time we got hosed.

1. Redd going to Portland or SA for cap room (Hammond told Kohl he'd rather wait a month until the trade deadline when the offers would be better. Redd then blew out his ACL)
2.Knicks S&T for Ramon
3. Bogut going to either Houston or GSW
4. Something going outbound for Redick and Josh Smith
5. Redick sign and trade

The only one that worked was Jennings for Knight/Middleton. But that didn't seem as important at the time since Middleton was essentially a throw-in back then. That said, Hammond was at least able to hose Dumars.

[BucksFanSD]

It is possible in two years from now Jabari comes back strong and gels nicely and Vaughn (currently 20) becomes a good player while other players like Thon continue to work hard and get better.

It's been a long nine years but Hammond has a chance to leave with a team that looking back in a couple years could really be appreciated.

[paulpressey25]

and these new owners are faaaaar worse than the previous ones imo. we are doomed.

This is where the rubber will finally meet the road. We already knew Hammond was someone who was able to be easily persuaded to go along with whatever the owner wanted. With the new guy we've at least got a chance he'll be more independent.

And in the case of Lasry, part of the problem was perhaps not that he was meddling like Kohl but that he trusted his buddy Kidd knew what he was doing and empowered him. Maybe if they get a better "expert" in there, they'll listen to him.

[Aaron It Out]

and these new owners are faaaaar worse than the previous ones imo. we are doomed.

This is where the rubber will finally meet the road. We already knew Hammond was someone who was able to be easily persuaded to go along with whatever the owner wanted. With the new guy we've at least got a chance he'll be more independent.

And in the case of Lasry, part of the problem was perhaps not that he was meddling like Kohl but that he trusted his buddy Kidd knew what he was doing and empowered him. Maybe if they get a better "expert" in there, they'll listen to him.

This is where I'm at too. My biggest question is are we going to bring in a basketball person to make basketball decisions, like they said they would? Or are they going to hire another one of their buddies to build a team "their way"? It's the sole reason of all my panic the last few days. Not doomed because we lost Hammond, just extremely nervous for what's to come. I really hope we learn more tomorrow.

[DanoMac]

I actually think Hammond is the Tom Braatz (not Starr) of the Bucks.

Where I went with Starr was along the lines of the good guy thing. And I think GoS proves my point. Everyone who got to meet Hammond personally had that interaction color their judgement of how he operated the team.

Except Dano

Most legendary moment in all of RealGM history.

For those who weren't around, now is the perfect time to relive this story.

DanoMac met Hammond at a game once and they talked ball for a bit, Hammond ended up giving him his card. They texted now and then, and it could even be argued that Dano drafted Doron Lamb. After the Tobias Harris (Or Redick trade for 2nds?) trade Dano posted Hammonds number here which inevitably led to Hammonds phone blowing up full of angry calls and texts. Somehow Howard Mass (rgm admin) got a hold of Dano's phone number and suspended him for 30 days (Bucks wanted him banned). Dano was forced to write an apology post (lol) and it was stickied here for the month he was suspended.

Good times.

I'm just really glad this board forgave me for drafting Lamb over RealGM legend Kyle O'Quinn.

[raferfenix]

Appreciate the piece. Agreed with this part in particular:

A segment of Bucks nation is concerned that Hammond is leaving at precisely the wrong time as the team has turned things around under Hammond acquisitions Giannis, Middleton, Maker and Brogdon. That fear may prove to be warranted. That said, it looked like the team had turned things around after the Fear the Deer season in 2010. The summer following Fear the Deer, the Bucks made the following off-season moves:

-Committed over $100 million dollars of future payroll to Corey Maggette, Drew Gooden and John Salmons.

-Drafted Larry Sanders in round one but also possessed four second round picks. One pick (Jerome Jordan) was dealt to New York for a future second, one pick was dealt to Sacramento for John Brockman and the other two were used on Darrington Hobson and Tiny Gallon.

-Traded a 2012 second round pick for Chris Douglas-Roberts

-Lesser free agency dollars spent on bringing in Earl Boykins and Keyon Dooling.

While it is accurate to laud Hammond for the Giannis pick, the rest of his tenure here was a complex maze of moves such as the 2010 off-season noted above. Were some of these moves dictated to Hammond by ownership? No question some were. That said we’ve seen the same pattern from Hammond under two different ownership groups – an inability to shape a coherent plan and vision for the team and not being able to properly value player skills in relation to their contracts.

We have little reason to think this summer would have been so different.

Hammond could have easily bid against himself and ultimately offer inexplicable numbers to Snell, Monroe and Beasley.

I think it's fair to say Hammond has a keen eye for talent...but that should not be confused with an ability to identify and acquire the right combination of role players to support that talent.

[Diggr14]

Anyone who was troubled about Hammond leaving earlier in the week should at least take a pause after digesting that material. It really was a summary of 25,000 posts from most of you over a nine-year period. And as I noted for Aussie Paul, we didn't even touch the brief but exciting Capt. Jack era nor the Bogut for Steph Curry stuff.

ETA: Going back down memory lane reminded me that we dealt for CDR. He, Boykins, Skinner and Keyon Dooling were lost amongst the Gooden/Maggette stuff in the summer of 2010.

Re: CDR:

Just another draft pick sold for the rights to nothing. Hambone gonna Hambone.

Remember when Chris Douglas-Roberts tweeted FTD and everyone was getting their sleuth on and hyping up the chance that it could have meant Fear the Deer And then it turned out that it did

I dont think GMs actually ever want to sell their draft picks unless they are told to do so by owners. Or.. they have massively bad cap situations, but I dont think the Bucks ever were in that spot where a 2nd round pick would have been abysmal to add.

Selling relatively early 2nds makes no sense to me. Including selling ours to Golden State. IMO 2nd round picks are hugely valuable to an organization. They count so little against the cap and you can add a warm body that has some game (in terms of a college jr. or sr. who proved they could play some ball at the college level). That is worth so much more than signing chumps like Miles Plumlee or John Henson to 12M per year.

As I say this.. i hope its clear how i feel about signing Tony Snell to a 8 figure contract/yr over 4 seasons... or for that matter Greg Monroe at 15M/yr. If you sign guys like this who are average players.. it better be for 2 years or less.

[raferfenix]

Ben Thompson has a good blog post too:

There is a very clear yin and yang to last summer’s moves, something that was repeated throughout Hammond’s tenure: the decisions that were focused on the long-term (the draft picks and Snell) put the Bucks closer to contending for a title; the ones that were focused on the 2016 season (the free agency signings and the sold draft pick) put them further away.

every single decision must be made with the goal of building a championship team in 2020, not 2017.

https://medium.com/@NoTechBen/the-bucks-2020-vision-76506e12bb

No more half measures to #OwnTheFuture while “serving two masters" as Hammond put it. That ultimately led to ill-fitting halfhearted win now acquisitions clogging up the roster and wasting asset value -- while failing to even get us out of the first round of the playoffs.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

and these new owners are faaaaar worse than the previous ones imo. we are doomed.

This is where the rubber will finally meet the road. We already knew Hammond was someone who was able to be easily persuaded to go along with whatever the owner wanted. With the new guy we've at least got a chance he'll be more independent.

And in the case of Lasry, part of the problem was perhaps not that he was meddling like Kohl but that he trusted his buddy Kidd knew what he was doing and empowered him. Maybe if they get a better "expert" in there, they'll listen to him.

Hammond knew how to function in a boardroom. it was a gift. very few gms in this league have carte blanche and milwuakee isn't a franchise who has EVER had a gm who functioned that way..... and this newest dynamic is farther away from that then ever. we replaced cronys with multiple owners and kidd and now weve let the one voice of reason in the whole damn bunch walk out the door.

believing lasry and kidd are going to hire a better "exoert" that will "persuade" them is laughable. that was hammonds greatest strength. you guys want to lynch him just because he didn't win all the time when the reality is he stuck around because many of the things he counseled against that they went ahead and did anyway made him look like a genius. the latest one where he wanted to fire kidd and ownership blocked it will be his last parting I told you so soon.

[blazza18]

Yes, man.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Where I went with Starr was along the lines of the good guy thing. And I think GoS proves my point. Everyone who got to meet Hammond personally had that interaction color their judgement of how he operated the team.

or maybe just actually ask questions and get answers that make sense. the reason people who talk to him support him is they realize theres a lot more patience in him then what this team has shown. owners and coaches want to win..... Hammond wanted youth and internal development. in our 2nd talk I asked specifically about the Dudley trade and it was the most excited he got in the whole conversation. taking on a pick for absorbing dudleys salary was the first time he'd been allowed to do that and he gloated over it.

bottom line this board doesn't know wtf theyre even talking about with this guy. anybody who talked to him gets that. he made mistakes but most of those were mistakes where he was probably given multiple options he didn't like and went with the best he could muster. he corrected those mistakes admirably despite many of them not even being his.

like I said. him gone were ****. he was smart and he was a nice guy. if you want stability you hope he stays on and he keeps getting lucky and negotiating with the idiots. you want a good chance at a total cluster **** then take a shot at another guy who aint a "yes man"..... a guy who does what Hammond finally did is what you really want? a guy who will walk off the job because hes tired of being blocked? great.... we can have a new gm every other month now

[paulpressey25]

Hammond knew how to function in a boardroom. it was a gift.

Hammond: Senator Kohl, we've struck a tentative deal with Memphis where we'd send them Ramon and Potsie for Mike Conley

Kohl: Hmmm, why would we give up on Potsie so soon. And I love Ramon.

Hammond: I'll tell Memphis "no" then.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Hammond knew how to function in a boardroom. it was a gift.

Hammond: Senator Kohl, we've struck a tentative deal with Memphis where we'd send them Ramon and Potsie for Mike Conley

Kohl: Hmmm, why would we give up on Potsie so soon. And I love Ramon.

Hammond: I'll tell Memphis "no" then.

yeah maybe he should have quit then or any other of 100 times since.

Hammond: I want to fire kidd

lasry: no

Hammond: I'm taking the Orlando job

that's how a expert gm does it right?

[Baddy Chuck]

Maybe we could have even found the next Scott Skiles or Larry Drew if he stayed.

[paulpressey25]

Hammond: I'm taking the Orlando job

Woelfel had a tidbit that he believes they told Hammond over a year ago he was free to pursue outside offers. This Orlando thing wasn't him finally getting fed up and leaving because he couldn't fire Kidd.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Hammond: I'm taking the Orlando job

Woelfel had a tidbit that he believes they told Hammond over a year ago he was free to pursue outside offers. This Orlando thing wasn't him finally getting fed up and leaving because he couldn't fire Kidd.

I't seems likely it wasn't the primary reason..... perhaps only one of the last straws that broke the camels back that became public. maybe even the front office has reached a new level of dysfunction he simply didn't care to function in anymore. he had 100 other reasons to quit for reasons like that and he didn't then either. I was simply using it to mock the idea he should be "more persuasive" or a "better expert" or that he should "enforce his will" or any of the other nonsense people are suggesting.

[JEIS]

Hammond had a better opportunity and seized it. More money, better location, longer years contract wise, better job security and is working with someone who knows and respects him and his thought process. It will be interesting to see what he can do.

[paulpressey25]

I was simply using it to mock the idea he should be "more persuasive" or a "better expert" or that he should "enforce his will" or any of the other nonsense people are suggesting.

But this goes back to everything the last nine years. If he's a "go along, get along" guy then we need someone different in there.

As an addendum, the idea that Hammond isn't super competent as a multi-talented GM and the idea that the LED front office is massively dysfunctional are not mutually exclusive.

[trwi7]

I'm just really glad this board forgave me for drafting Lamb over RealGM legend Kyle O'Quinn.

We haven't. You still owe us a pizza party.