2017 Bucks Off Season Thread 3 - Trades and Free Agents - Clark pg. 35

[Prince12]

So Beas might end up back in China after all? Thought for sure he'd find a home after being a pretty good player last season.

[Ron Swanson]

Surprise surprise. Beasley probably going back overseas while apparently that "trash player" Tyler Ennis played pretty well after the All-Star break and just signed a 2-year deal.

[Prince12]

Surprise surprise. Beasley probably going back overseas while apparently that "trash player" Tyler Ennis played pretty well after the All-Star break and just signed a 2-year deal.

I liked Ennis but in hindsight he wouldn't have seen the court at all last year while Beasley was an impact player at times.

Preferably I wouldn't have signed Delly and seen what Ennis had but it wasn't going to happen.

[raferfenix]

I mean if we could get Melo for Monroe + Delly that seems pretty low risk.

Similarly if anything like Telly + Henson could lead to Wade + Lopez that would be great just for the cap savings.

Trading picks is where it gets dicey. I'd feel better about dealing Wilson or Vaughn since I fear both are busts.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

The nets, mavs, magic, kings, will all have tons of money. Someone is going to offer him 20-25 mil per season.

I don't think many of those teams will have that much space to use. Secondly, I just straight disagree with the amount they'd throw at Jabari - unless like I said he absolutely looks like a beast, which is unlikely.

I bet if he recovers well, to the point the Bucks like, we will give him a long term deal at a modest 15m/year (maybe upwards of 18m/year).

The nets offered Allen Crabbe 18 mil per year 2 years ago lol. The nets are known to offer large amounts to risky players.

and now that they have Crabbe, they don't have the space to offer Jabari too much

[Ron Swanson]

Surprise surprise. Beasley probably going back overseas while apparently that "trash player" Tyler Ennis played pretty well after the All-Star break and just signed a 2-year deal.

I liked Ennis but in hindsight he wouldn't have seen the court at all last year while Beasley was an impact player at times.

Preferably I wouldn't have signed Delly and seen what Ennis had but it wasn't going to happen.

He wouldn't have seen the court yet Gary Payton II did? I highly doubt that.

[skones]

I understand just fine. I'm pretty well versed in the CBA, moreso than a large portion of posters here. With that being said, that's not what you stated, at all. Your new argument is also wrong. The extension of the qualifying offer does not mean the cap hold is in effect until they match or let him walk. The qualifying offer can be rescinded.

You don't understand if you think it "ruins a month or more of prime time to pursue free agents." It gives you less flexibility than you have if you extend the QO, especially if a S&T offer comes into play, which given the restriction actually allows the team to get value instead of selling for pennies for the dollar. It's another "I hate Jabari argument" for the sake of you, once again saying, you don't like Jabari. We get it. Give it up.

Oh great, the qualifying offer can be rescinded? How does that option refute my saying that it could be a bad investment? That's exactly what I'm saying they might have to do. That's exactly what makes it a bad investment. That would prove everyone who's hoping he gets traded now 100% right.

Being able to avoid the dilemma of his restricted free agency is a big positive that can swing any realistic trade scenario into a clear win. It's a huge problem for them that they have to worry about Jabari getting some ridiculous offer. You don't have to be a Jabari hater to understand why it might be a good idea to cash in now before it comes down to choosing between letting him walk for nothing or matching a nuclear waste offer.

It definitely puts a huge cramp on their free agent options. They'll either have that huge cap hold, have to match a ridiculous offer, or have to withdraw the qualifying offer. In all likelihood, his free agency will drag on for a while because teams are reluctant to sign him. It's not a good situation for them. I'd much rather take my chances on some decent vets with expiring contracts and a ton of cap space next summer. I doubt Jabari can even fetch that though, as all other teams are fully aware of the downside of having to deal with the dilemma of his impending free agency. The only people who can't face that are the ones who got themselves so entrenched in a pro-Jabari labyrinth for so long that they can't find their way out anymore.

Because you give yourself more options in FA. Negotiate with a FA not named Jabari? Work something out? Offer rescinded, you got something else you preferred while still keeping your options open with Jabari. Nothing better out there? You still have options with a tradeable or signable asset. If his RFA drags on for a while, you have time to talk to multiple FA prospects. If his RFA doesn't you decide not to match, thus once again, opening up options elsewhere. In no way shape or form do you commit to "tying up your FA money for a month or more."

There is literally no downside to extending the Qualifying Offer, and again, a good investment if he somehow played ON the qualifying offer (which was your initial statement that you're deflecting). This is pretty simple stuff.

[Prince12]

Surprise surprise. Beasley probably going back overseas while apparently that "trash player" Tyler Ennis played pretty well after the All-Star break and just signed a 2-year deal.

I liked Ennis but in hindsight he wouldn't have seen the court at all last year while Beasley was an impact player at times.

Preferably I wouldn't have signed Delly and seen what Ennis had but it wasn't going to happen.

He wouldn't have seen the court yet Gary Payton II did? I highly doubt that.

Yeah, we know what Kidd is like. Ennis couldn't get time in the seasons before brog and Delly. Kidd was taking a chance on Payton's defense plus probably pals with his dad.

Payton will be gone for another one of Kidds pals in Jet who I want back mind you. As I said I liked Ennis but he would've rotted on the pine. Beasley knee injury at the time was unfortunate. He is what he is, a pretty average player that can go off and get you 20. He was a decent acquisition. My only concern was him getting paid by us which it looks like we've avoided. Fine.

[blazza18]

If I wasn't lazy I'd go back to find those awful Beasley opinions during the season.

[emunney]

Oh great, the qualifying offer can be rescinded? How does that option refute my saying that it could be a bad investment? That's exactly what I'm saying they might have to do. That's exactly what makes it a bad investment. That would prove everyone who's hoping he gets traded now 100% right.

Being able to avoid the dilemma of his restricted free agency is a big positive that can swing any realistic trade scenario into a clear win. It's a huge problem for them that they have to worry about Jabari getting some ridiculous offer. You don't have to be a Jabari hater to understand why it might be a good idea to cash in now before it comes down to choosing between letting him walk for nothing or matching a nuclear waste offer.

It definitely puts a huge cramp on their free agent options. They'll either have that huge cap hold, have to match a ridiculous offer, or have to withdraw the qualifying offer. In all likelihood, his free agency will drag on for a while because teams are reluctant to sign him. It's not a good situation for them. I'd much rather take my chances on some decent vets with expiring contracts and a ton of cap space next summer. I doubt Jabari can even fetch that though, as all other teams are fully aware of the downside of having to deal with the dilemma of his impending free agency. The only people who can't face that are the ones who got themselves so entrenched in a pro-Jabari labyrinth for so long that they can't find their way out anymore.

Because you give yourself more options in FA. Negotiate with a FA not named Jabari? Work something out? Offer rescinded, you got something else you preferred while still keeping your options open with Jabari. Nothing better out there? You still have options with a tradeable or signable asset. If his RFA drags on for a while, you have time to talk to multiple FA prospects. If his RFA doesn't you decide not to match, thus once again, opening up options elsewhere. In no way shape or form do you commit to "tying up your FA money for a month or more."

There is literally no downside to offering the Qualifying Offer, and again, a good investment if he somehow played ON the qualifying offer (which was your initial statement that you're deflecting). This is pretty simple stuff.

I guess the downside would be if you didn't want to pay him the QO and he took it right away, which would be totally unprecedented and seems impossible, and also, you wouldn't offer it if you were afraid of him taking it.

[emunney]

Whenever somebody uses the term "impact" for a player who isn't good, I always get an image in my mind of a smoking crater.

[Baddy Chuck]

Where's the Beasley to China stuff?

[SupremeHustle]

The Bucks are showing me something by not showing me something this off season.

Whether it's because of new found discipline, or inability because of the financial situation, this off season is working out pretty good so far in my opinion.

[skones]

Oh great, the qualifying offer can be rescinded? How does that option refute my saying that it could be a bad investment? That's exactly what I'm saying they might have to do. That's exactly what makes it a bad investment. That would prove everyone who's hoping he gets traded now 100% right.

Being able to avoid the dilemma of his restricted free agency is a big positive that can swing any realistic trade scenario into a clear win. It's a huge problem for them that they have to worry about Jabari getting some ridiculous offer. You don't have to be a Jabari hater to understand why it might be a good idea to cash in now before it comes down to choosing between letting him walk for nothing or matching a nuclear waste offer.

It definitely puts a huge cramp on their free agent options. They'll either have that huge cap hold, have to match a ridiculous offer, or have to withdraw the qualifying offer. In all likelihood, his free agency will drag on for a while because teams are reluctant to sign him. It's not a good situation for them. I'd much rather take my chances on some decent vets with expiring contracts and a ton of cap space next summer. I doubt Jabari can even fetch that though, as all other teams are fully aware of the downside of having to deal with the dilemma of his impending free agency. The only people who can't face that are the ones who got themselves so entrenched in a pro-Jabari labyrinth for so long that they can't find their way out anymore.

Because you give yourself more options in FA. Negotiate with a FA not named Jabari? Work something out? Offer rescinded, you got something else you preferred while still keeping your options open with Jabari. Nothing better out there? You still have options with a tradeable or signable asset. If his RFA drags on for a while, you have time to talk to multiple FA prospects. If his RFA doesn't you decide not to match, thus once again, opening up options elsewhere. In no way shape or form do you commit to "tying up your FA money for a month or more."

There is literally no downside to offering the Qualifying Offer, and again, a good investment if he somehow played ON the qualifying offer (which was your initial statement that you're deflecting). This is pretty simple stuff.

I guess the downside would be if you didn't want to pay him the QO and he took it right away, which would be totally unprecedented and seems impossible, and also, you wouldn't offer it if you were afraid of him taking it.

7.4M is peanuts for the upside involved. It would be moronic to view that as anything but a win for a season.

[drat456]

The Bucks are showing me something by not showing me something this off season.

Whether it's because of new found discipline, or inability because of the financial situation, this off season is working out pretty good so far in my opinion.

Haven't heard a peep from them this offseason lol

[Baddy Chuck]

The Bucks are showing me something by not showing me something this off season.

Whether it's because of new found discipline, or inability because of the financial situation, this off season is working out pretty good so far in my opinion.

When you lock up Tony Snell and Bronson Koenig right away there's not much left to do.

[M-C-G]

I've got no problem bringing Beasley back on a two year 4M deal (total) with year two being TO


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[Wisky4life]

Well since we did little this off-season, maybe it was a great thing Moose opted in. We could have offered a mega contract to some jo-blow and we would be in cap hell.

[BroncoBuck]

Jennings should head over to China. His game and personality would run wild over there.

[Dandridgefav]

OVER-ALL STRATEGY
Salary cap = do not trade away cap space or expiring contracts - period – instead collect them.
(all dollar amounts are approximates)
Use accumulated cap space to sign Star #2.
result of transaction below = have 7 vets* ($50+mil) expiring this year that will NOT to be resigned +
also expiring - 2 young replacments/possibilities - Nog & Exxum – try out for 1 yr whether to resign or expire
upgrade rim protection & back up 5 - replace Henson with Nog
upgrade passing & back up 1 delly with Exxum
Parker = wanted to keep him but he made the trade happen plus his resigning was risky due to injury

TRADE
MIL-OUT- parker delly Henson telly Vaughn 1st
MIL - IN – nog exxum favors Johnson brewer

UT-OUT- favors hood exxum johnson
UT – IN – Parker delly Henson 2nd

LAL-OUT- nance brewer 2nd
LAL – IN – hood telly 2nd

TOR-OUT- nog
TOR – IN – nance Vaughn


ROSTER *=expires
Maker / Nog* / Monroe*
Giannis / favors* / Hawes*
middleton / brewer* / Beasley*
snell / brown / Johnson*
brogdon / exxum* / terry*

development of our young guys is not interupted by declining stars
open with same starting line=up ended with gives Bucks continuity they haven't had for years

You want to trade Parker to just get expiring deals???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

And I don't even like Parker and I think that is stupid!!! You wait to trade parker until he has shown hes healthy again and he has value. You don't trade parker for nothing.

I understand you were tripping all over yourself to rush to criticize but you are mistaken in what is transpiring in this situation and inaccurate in your understanding of the outcome. You said and I quote "You want to trade Parker to just get expiring deals." Yes I get lots of expirings on purpose. To me - expirings are the primary path to walk this offseason, they are this season's #1 priority in my vision of "Own the Future" and in fact is the successor to draft picks as primary improvement mechanism at this stage of our team's development. For a rebuild - Stage One uses draft picks as the primary tool to obtain talent - since your win totals will be low and your draft picks high AND since FAs rarely make a loosing rebuilding team their target club to sign with. When you have landed enough talent from the draft to start making your draft picks become later - Free Agency becomes primary and cap space is the fuel for a chance of a successful free agent season. This 2nd stage is where the Bucks just entered last season. The third stage uses trades.

In addition to cap space being my #1 priority I have other specific goals that are accomplished - #2 priority = remove dead weight contracts; and #3 make whatever upgrade to the 1 and 5 that can be made however small. But getting back to cap space –
In nuts and bolts value to a team - I valued the money these 7 vets represent more than their basketball contribution. I am not saying all of them are useless but it is not the money but rather the player the money and cap space allow to be signed. It follows then that if I am trading Parker mainly to acquire cap space then I believe the player I can sign will be a better fit to this team than Parker. So every cap dollar I expand represents a more talented player I can acquire. I really like Jabari - it hurts a little to let go of a good character kid like that, putting up the battle he is - but as talented as he is – I believe a better player can be signed with the money I pay Jabari. And I am not picking on Parker. I look at every player and I ask is this the best guy I can get for the amount he is being paid? In most cases its an easy often painful recognition - Henson Telly - In some cases its close call like Parker.

Let me state the obvious so no-one feels compelled to express the obvious. - Having the money to sign a SUPERSTAR DOES NOT GUARNTEE ONE WILL SIGN - yes that is true - AND equally true - it is an absolute necessary step/ingredient to even be in the room.

Regarding another of your oversights – I did not trade just for expirings - of the 9 expirings acquired - 2 are guys I expect we would resign at least as quality backups and possibly compete for starting job AND they also happen to be expiring. They are differentiated by being identified as "7 vets who would not be resigned" and in a later sentence "2 young replacement possibilities." I pursued Nogueira and Exxum because I feel they can contribute and improve the two positions I most wanted some level of upgrade 5 and 1 - especially on the rookie contract they are both in their last year of. For those two I chose to buy the year I can invest and develop and then have control of paying only if and what I feel makes them better than all the other guys I could sign for that price.

So I use this off season to gather as much cap space I can – then in the NEXT off season or 2 I do NOT blow $ on non-star players even if I miss that year and sign no-one. That takes huge discipline and resolve. There is little credence to the FA negative tag to Milwaukee. Monroe proved that. As average as he turned out he was one of the most coveted FA’s that year courted by Knicks, Lakers among others.

Finally every trade needs at least one player as the lighting rod to draw in energy and interest - a focus and a magnet to pull it together. In reality this lightning rod leads and represents the total ability of getting the best return on each player and the overall assets surrendered This trade used Jabari as the lightning rod. It possibly could have been Middleton. That decision is open for discussion.

.