Name your all-time roster - 2K18 alltime roster released pg.3

[coolhandluke121]

Lew
Giannis
Marques
Sid
Oscar
(if this isn't your top 5, you're nuts - these are the only legit 1st-team all-NBA threats the Bucks have ever had)

2001 Ray would like a word.

Cummings, Redd, Bogut, and Cassell all made one of the all-NBA teams in at least one of their best years too. Being a 1st-team all-NBA caliber player is a whole notch above that. Those guys were/are total studs. Ray was never in that class.

[Ron Swanson]

2001 Ray was arguably the best offensive perimeter player in the league, and the closest thing to a superstar the franchise had since '83 Moncrief. Agree to disagree on that one.

[bucksbrewers3]

Big O
Sid
Giannis
Baker
Jabar

Cassell
Allen
Johnson
Dandrige
Bogut
Pressey
Redd

[bucksbrewers3]

Idk how many of you guys play the game but I do and I think this is a fantastic idea. Excited about this years game with the changes and more attribute areas.

[Fresh_Prince12]

Nba 2k will be adding an all time roster to this year's version. Got me thinking who would put on a 13 man roster.

PG The big O
SG Ray
SF Giannis
PF Vin
C Lew

Bench
Marques Johnson
Sid
Cassell
Big dog
Dandridge
Paul pressy
Terry Cummings
Bogut, mainly for 09-10 season

It has been confirmed to have a 15 man roster

So add redd and WTH Parker.

[SKG]

2001 Ray was arguably the best offensive perimeter player in the league, and the closest thing to a superstar the franchise had since '83 Moncrief. Agree to disagree on that one.

Jesus was a super star

[coolhandluke121]

2001 Ray was arguably the best offensive perimeter player in the league, and the closest thing to a superstar the franchise had since '83 Moncrief. Agree to disagree on that one.

Jesus was a super star

Wow man. Some of y'all really don't give a damn about defense, do you? I always know it's coming, but it still always surprises me. Fans don't have so much trouble comprehending the importance of defense in football or of pitching in baseball. What is it about basketball that makes it so difficult? Defense is literally, by definition, your ability to influence the other team's offense. Offense can't possibly be more important than defense, because then the other team's offense is more important than their defense, but their defense is your offense and vice versa.

It's literally not even a one-step logical deduction, but a tautology. And Ray was not a superstar. Good lord.

[FlagsFlyForever]

2001 Ray was arguably the best offensive perimeter player in the league, and the closest thing to a superstar the franchise had since '83 Moncrief. Agree to disagree on that one.

Jesus was a super star

Wow man. Some of y'all really don't give a damn about defense, do you? I always know it's coming, but it still always surprises me. Fans don't have so much trouble comprehending the importance of defense in football or of pitching in baseball. What is it about basketball that makes it so difficult? Defense is literally, by definition, your ability to influence the other team's offense. Offense can't possibly be more important than defense, because then the other team's offense is more important than their defense, but their defense is your offense and vice versa.

It's literally not even a one-step logical deduction, but a tautology. And Ray was not a superstar. Good lord.

Nobody will talk about the importance of defense more than me but even with Ray's defense, he is a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's the only Hall of Famer in Bucks history to spend more seasons with Milwaukee than any other team.

[Prickle]

Here are the premises I used:
- Bucks tenure is more important than what the player did before or after.
- Peak value has a slight edge over longevity when it's close.
- Picking the top scorers every decade would be so lame.
- The Bucks were really good in the 80's.
- You can only judge a player relative to the era he played in.
- Other than considering position, I tried to choose the most valuable players regardless of "fit".
- That said, being a team player helps you fit in anywhere. Only the most talented selfish players earned a spot.
- I favored good all-around players over the many one-dimensional scorers who defined the mediocre years.


Lew
Giannis
Marques
Sid
Oscar
(if this isn't your top 5, you're nuts - these are the only legit 1st-team all-NBA threats the Bucks have ever had)

Bogut
Cummings
Dandridge
Ray
Sam
(these 5 are almost as easy as the first 5)

Sikma/Lanier (damn close)
Baker
Pressey
Winters/Redd (did Winters play defense?)
Pierce (was sometimes listed as a pg)

Lanier/Sikma
Big Dog
Bridgeman
Redd/Winters
Lucius

Ervin
Ersan
Khris (should move to 3rd-team in a few years)
McGlocklin
Humphries

Sanders
Lister
Ellis
Salmons
Flynn

Moses
LRMAM
Jabari
Alvin Robertson
Mo

Monroe
Thomas
Kukoc
Murdock
Terrell Brandon

Brickowski
Tyrone Hill
Delfino
Charlie Bell
Buckner

I was gonna keep going until I found a spot for Knight and the Swag Twins, but I can't.

I'm just glad someone finally mentioned Eric Murdock. Even if he only made your 8th "All-Bucks" team, it serves as some validation for me purchasing his jersey in 1995. Now, if only someone could justify my 1993 Todd Day jersey purchase...

[coolhandluke121]

Nobody will talk about the importance of defense more than me but even with Ray's defense, he is a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's the only Hall of Famer in Bucks history to spend more seasons with Milwaukee than any other team.

Ray was a perennial back-up all-star and a consistent scorer for many years in the league. Guys like that will always make the hall of fame, as they probably should. But he had a lot of really good years after the Bucks, and a lot of pretty unimpressive years with them. I clearly said I care more about a player's peak and his time with the Bucks, and I refuse to devalue defense the way these awards so often do. It's ridiculous how backwards the basketball mainstream still is with regard to that.

Sid was a 2-time DPOY and a very effective offensive player in his era as well. He was basically the Gary Payton of the 80's. You're talking about a guy who was just one tier below the perennial MVP candidates. Ray was never that, and with the Bucks he played his worst defense while being a bit of a ball-hog and forcing shots and bickering over touches. He couldn't dribble and didn't have very much play-making ability, but he would still spend possessions dribbling around trying to make something happen and taking the offense completely out of its rhythm. He got better at playing team ball after he left.

The Bucks were well under .500 in his time there. People have Ray, Sam, and Big Dog all over their all-Bucks squads, but even when those 3 were together, the Bucks were roughly .500 in an extremely weak conference. They advanced in the playoffs once, in possibly the East's worst year. They were the poster boys for a team that's much better on paper than on the court because it's built around overrated scorers who don't play any defense and don't have much play-making ability to make others on the team better.

Sid and Marques were total studs. There's a pretty significant chasm between their impact and Ray's. They didn't have the hall-of-fame longevity Ray did, but they both spent more time with the Bucks and were much better players for them.

[Ron Swanson]

The idea that individual perimeter defense in basketball is as important as, or somehow offsets or even mitigates elite offensive production, is one of the biggest analytics promoted myths out there. I don't even get how people can believe that when we continuously see 3 of the top-5 players in the league (Harden, Curry, Westbrook) be trash on the defensive end, yet still have superstar and MVP impact. Guys like Lillard, McCollum, and Beal to a lesser extent as well.

[Bucksfan28]

You can't compare basketball to football or baseball, where defenders/pitchers are literally paid to focus only on that side of the ball. Not even close.

Most here understand the value of defense, but in a team concept. In an ideal world every player would be good on both sides. That just doesn't happen, and like Swanson said, look no further than the best players in the league to realize that a massive impact can still be made on the game even as a defensive liability.

[coolhandluke121]

Obviously Ray's bad defense wasn't nearly bad enough to offset his good offense, and there are tons of other all-stars you can say that about too. But when it's Ray vs. Sid, a 2-time DPOY, it's a huge difference. Most of Ray's best years were for other teams, too. He started out as a ball-hog who forced a lot of shots for his first 3 years, had a couple really good years, and then went down the toilet again because he spent the summer of 2001 shooting He Got Game instead of rehabbing his knee. He didn't return to form until after he was traded to Seattle. He wasn't any better than guys like Sprewell, Houston, or Eddie Jones in his time with the Bucks.

You can't claim to have any understanding of the importance of defense if you have Ray ahead of Sid.

[Bucksfan28]

He Got Game came out in '98..

And post summer-'01, Ray produced right in line with his Bucks peak that began in '99. In '01-'02, he shot his best 3pt% as a Buck, on the most attempts, and had a 60% TS. His PPG went up due to a higher usage in SEA, not because he regained form.

[emunney]

So 2k18 released the Bucks all time team:

Big O
Sid
Ray
Dandridge
KAJ

Giannis
Baker
Bogut
Cummings
Lanier
Pressey
Jonny Mac
Redd
Pierce
JENNINGS

Big Dog, Marques, Winters, Bridgeman, Cassell all out. Jennings over Cassell would be my biggest problem and everyone else's, I'd guess, but I think Marques not making it is pretty inexcusable.

[ReasonablySober]

2nd best scorer in franchise history doesn't make it. Garbage.

[Ron Swanson]

Lol at Jennings. They probably needed to add a PG but if that's the case then excluding Sam makes it even more dumb. No Marques or Big Dog is a joke.

[GBPackers47]

no Ervin Johnson is an absolute crime

[FlagsFlyForever]

So 2k18 released the Bucks all time team:

Big O
Sid
Ray
Dandridge
KAJ

Giannis
Baker
Bogut
Cummings
Lanier
Pressey
Jonny Mac
Redd
Pierce
JENNINGS

Big Dog, Marques, Winters, Bridgeman, Cassell all out. Jennings over Cassell would be my biggest problem and everyone else's, I'd guess, but I think Marques not making it is pretty inexcusable.

That's a pretty good team overall considering 2K has to sign contracts with every player who isn't currently active. They probably couldn't come to an agreement with the snubs such as Cassell and Marques.

[Prince12]

Jennings inclusion actually made me spit my coffee out. That is hilarious.