Khris Middleton is greater than or equal to Gordon Hayward

HKPackFan · Post #41 » by **HKPackFan** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:37 am

chonestown wrote:Christopher Cross > Kris Kross

R.I.P. as MacDaddy died of an overdose few years ago.

FlagsFlyForever · Post #42 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:08 am

ReasonablySober wrote:If Middleton is 100% I think he's going to have an All-Star level year. GH's better now, but Middleton will be by the end of the season.

That would be great but Hayward is already at that level and he has a good chance to start the All-Star game this season.

Octopus Jonny · Post #43 » by **Octopus Jonny** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:10 am

vtime wrote:I see many have forgotten how good pre-injury Khris was. 19ppg on great percentages while sharing the ball a full season with Giannis and Bari and playing stellar defense. His 15-16 was better than Hayward.

And you seem to be forgetting that it's 2017, Khris suffered a significant injury to a major tendon (an injury that has very little in the way of occurrences in other athletes to compare recovery time, impact on production, etc), and Hayward is coming off the best season of his career.

That's what we have to work with, currently. Unfortunately, we can't compare a healthy KM's 2016-17 season to Hayward because it didn't happen.

Khris is a year younger, much cheaper, is one of my favorite Bucks players, and his hamstring injury could wind up having little long term effect on his potential and ability to reach that potential.

But Gordon Hayward is a better player right now and that will remain a fact until evidence supports otherwise.

blazza18 · Post #44 » by **blazza18** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:32 am

Playing around with the player comparison finder on bref. They are much closer than I original thought pre Hayward making the all star leap last season.

Fotis St · Post #45 » by **Fotis St** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:14 am

mattg wrote: Hayward .......... in addition to being a clearly superior athlete.

It all comes down to this ...

I think Khris has more basketball in his soul ... but his body limits his impact and overall skillset.

If Khris had same athleticism with Hayward he would be the better player. Until we see that, if ever, Hayward is the better player, no doubt.

vtime · Post #46 » by **vtime** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:10 am

Hayward played on a defensive team where his no. 2 option was George Hill and still only avg 22ppg. That's awfully low for the stud he's claimed to be. Being a better athlete does not necessarily make you a better player, Khris is one of the best 2 way players in the league.

Baddy Chuck · Post #47 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:44 pm

vtime wrote:Hayward played on a defensive team where his no. 2 option was George Hill and still only avg 22ppg. That's awfully low for the stud he's claimed to be. Being a better athlete does not necessarily make you a better player, Khris is one of the best 2 way players in the league.

I don't really see how being on a low point team could be a negative for Hayward putting up 23pp/36 on 60% TS%.

JimmyTheKid · Post #48 » by **JimmyTheKid** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:14 pm

midranger wrote:Set contracts aside. Not a single person here is refusing to swap Middleton for Hayward immediately if offered. Don't be silly everybody.

This. And its really not close. I like Middleton as much as the next Bucks fan but he's not "one of the best two way players in the league" and he's not in the same tier as Hayward.

IF Middleton stays healthy, IF Middleton gets more consistent, IF Middleton improves on both sides of the ball, and IF Hayward stays the same player for the rest of his career, maybe, just maybe, theres a conversation to be had. But right now its not even close.

Post #49 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:22 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:
midranger wrote:Set contracts aside. Not a single person here is refusing to swap Middleton for Hayward immediately if offered. Don't be silly everybody.

This. And its really not close. I like Middleton as much as the next Bucks fan but he's not "one of the best two way players in the league" and he's not in the same tier as Hayward.

IF Middleton stays healthy, IF Middleton gets more consistent, IF Middleton improves on both sides of the ball, and IF Hayward stays the same player for the rest of his career, maybe, just maybe, theres a conversation to be had. But right now its not even close.

'15-'16 Middleton was better than Hayward's ever been, including last season.

midranger · Post #50 » by **midranger** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:33 pm

ReginaldDwight · Post #51 » by **ReginaldDwight** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:34 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:
midranger wrote:Set contracts aside. Not a single person here is refusing to swap Middleton for Hayward immediately if offered. Don't be silly everybody.

This. And its really not close. I like Middleton as much as the next Bucks fan but he's not "one of the best two way players in the league" and he's not in the same tier as Hayward.

IF Middleton stays healthy, IF Middleton gets more consistent, IF Middleton improves on both sides of the ball, and IF Hayward stays the same player for the rest of his career, maybe, just maybe, theres a conversation to be had. But right now its not even close.

'15-'16 Middleton was better than Hayward's ever been, including last season.

As a pure scorer maybe, but midds leaves alot to be desired as a playmaker.

skones · Post #52 » by **skones** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:36 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:
midranger wrote:Set contracts aside. Not a single person here is refusing to swap Middleton for Hayward immediately if offered. Don't be silly everybody.

This. And its really not close. I like Middleton as much as the next Bucks fan but he's not "one of the best two way players in the league" and he's not in the same tier as Hayward.

IF Middleton stays healthy, IF Middleton gets more consistent, IF Middleton improves on both sides of the ball, and IF Hayward stays the same player for the rest of his career, maybe, just maybe, theres a conversation to be had. But right now its not even close.

'15-'16 Middleton was better than Hayward's ever been, including last season.

Based on what?

Shaffty · Post #53 » by **Shaffty** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:43 pm

Middleton is Rodney Dangerfield

John Murdoch · Post #54 » by **John Murdoch** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:47 pm

As a neutral perspective im a fan of Mids but i think Gordon is the better overall athlete and absorbs contact a little better so id take Gordon over him pretty comfortably

ReginaldDwight · Post #55 » by **ReginaldDwight** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:50 pm

John Murdoch wrote:As a neutral perspective im a fan of Mids but i think Gordon is the better overall athlete and absorbs contact a little better so id take Gordon over him pretty comfortably

Midds can be so much better I feel, but he still hasn't quite put it all together. Too many stretches where he goes full pube imo.

freewhitemoon · Post #56 » by **freewhitemoon** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:51 pm

vtime wrote:Hayward played on a defensive team where his no. 2 option was George Hill and still only avg 22ppg. That's awfully low for the stud he's claimed to be. Being a better athlete does not necessarily make you a better player, Khris is one of the best 2 way players in the league.

Utah play incredibly slow though

Bucksfan28 · Post #57 » by **Bucksfan28** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:16 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
'15-'16 Middleton was better than Hayward's ever been, including last season.

False.

And I searched for any reason to believe this for the sake of homerism.

midranger · Post #58 » by **midranger** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:17 pm

Hayward's year as #1 option led to 51 wins in the western conference and a play off series win, with Gobert and half a year of Hill.

Middleton's #1 year led to 33 wins in the eastern conference with Giannis and Monroe playing the whol year.

Matches Malone · Post #59 » by **Matches Malone** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:26 pm

3Diamantidis wrote:No way lol
Hayward as it stands now, can be the 4th best player in the conference behind only lebron, giannis, wall.

At first I was like nah. Then I checked the Eastern conference again and you're probably right. DeRozen and Irving could also be in the conversation but I might take Hayward over them. Man, the East is very weak.

Post #60 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:42 pm

midranger wrote:Hayward's year as #1 option led to 51 wins in the western conference and a play off series win, with Gobert and half a year of Hill.

Middleton's #1 year led to 33 wins in the eastern conference with Giannis and Monroe playing the whol year.

You're not seriously crediting Hayward (as opposed to Gobert) for that success, right?