Grade the Bucks Offseason

[smauss]

I'm curious if folks believe our roster is better than last year and why or why not?

More from internal improvement of last years roster. Though I think Sterling Brown has a place in this league, Wilson I'm in wait and see mode.

I am looking forward to what Brown brings as well. Wilson, who knows, we'll see. I know most folks around here didn't like Beas but I do, and I think he will leave a serious hole. We just don't have guys that can create their own shots like he could. Now, if we have some guys that can fill that hole (of which I'm hoping Brown can), maybe that hole won't be significant. That being said, I can't see much, if any, roster improvement.......

[Baddy Chuck]

If Edens is so cheap, why was he okay bringing in Zanik as assistant GM and giving him a contract that paid him equal to a GM's salary?

Because I would assume on that hiring he had the support and checkbooks from a couple other billionaires (with a b) who wanted Zanik in that spot all along, all the way up until Edens vetoed it.

How did Zanik make it all the way through the process to be a finalist? If Edens hated Zanik and was never going to approve him to be GM, it seems like he would've made that point clear immediately. My guess is Zanik would be the Bucks GM right now if Horst didn't exist.

Honest opinion I think if Edens isn't in the ownership group Horst is out the door following Hammond/McKinney and Zanik is our GM. I think Zanik had the support of LEDK from the start and then Edens grew weary of the Lasry/Kidd stranglehold and no longer wanted "their guy" in charge. I don't think Edens wanted anything to do with Zanik from the start of the GM search and when his choice, the Lithuanian, cucked us we scrambled to find a non LDK choice and rather than extending the process well into to offseason they tried saving face by bringing in the wunderkind who somehow even fellow NBA front office members didn't even know existed.

[KidA24]

It was reported that they made the decision to name him GM before ever interviewing him. It seems like they knew what they had in Horst without an interview.

"They knew he was better than Zanik"

They then didn't interview Horst and had Zanik as one of the two finalists for the job.

Your logic is failing me.

My logic is they liked Zanik. They liked Horst more. When the time came to make an official decision, they looped Horst in and gave him an official interview.

Again, then they are incompetent.

By not giving a candidate due diligence by, you know, making him go through the interview process, they did the organization a disservice.

[drew881]

I'm curious if folks believe our roster is better than last year and why or why not?

More from internal improvement of last years roster. Though I think Sterling Brown has a place in this league, Wilson I'm in wait and see mode.

I am looking forward to what Brown brings as well. Wilson, who knows, we'll see. I know most folks around here didn't like Beas but I do, and I think he will leave a serious hole. We just don't have guys that can create their own shots like he could. Now, if we have some guys that can fill that hole (of which I'm hoping Brown can), maybe that hole won't be significant. That being said, I can't see much, if any, roster improvement.......

We simply have to hope for internal improvement. We're likely to see if from Giannis, but he and maybe Brogdon are about the only players I'd put money on. If Middleton improves, either from experience or from better health, we are in ok shape. If Vaughn comes out of nowhere to be a viable future 6th man, we are looking pretty good. I'm probably most curious and most worried about Snell.

[Prince12]

More from internal improvement of last years roster. Though I think Sterling Brown has a place in this league, Wilson I'm in wait and see mode.

I am looking forward to what Brown brings as well. Wilson, who knows, we'll see. I know most folks around here didn't like Beas but I do, and I think he will leave a serious hole. We just don't have guys that can create their own shots like he could. Now, if we have some guys that can fill that hole (of which I'm hoping Brown can), maybe that hole won't be significant. That being said, I can't see much, if any, roster improvement.......

We simply have to hope for internal improvement. We're likely to see if from Giannis, but he and maybe Brogdon are about the only players I'd put money on. If Middleton improves, either from experience or from better health, we are in ok shape. If Vaughn comes out of nowhere to be a viable future 6th man, we are looking pretty good. I'm probably most curious and most worried about Snell.

Bleacher report did an article naming a player from each team ready to take the next step. Before I opened it I thought long and hard and struggled to come up with who it may be other then potentially Thon. It was Giannis which is pretty crazy.

We have enough development left with this group to probably get us to around home court level but certainly a couple pieces from being a genuine contender.

[Xanadu]

Yah, I gave an A (I would have selected B+ but that wasn't an option). We signed Snell, a player who fit like a glove last season, to a reasonable contract. We did not make a stupid move, like trading Monroe or signing some other player to a stupid contract. I'm good with the draft picks, as well. I *really like* the fact we are keeping this team together for another season. There is something to be said with consistency. I'd give it an A if we could move Henson. I also like what Terry bought, leadership wise, to the team.

Really an A? Even if you think this off season was a good one a A would be for like a perfect off season. A perfect offseason would require a move that would greatly improve the team. Like adding a proven star or bringing Pop in or something. Even if you liked the draft picks and the decision to resign Snell we still did little to improve. Then come the small mistakes like signing Snell without even letting him test the market. With our new GM supposedly being a cap expert that's a incredible questionable choice. The chance Snell would have gotten an offer that matched ours were incredible small imo. Most likely he could of been had for much cheaper. Then there was the whole GM search debacle that ended with a GM who is most likely a puppet for ownership. Even if you believe Horst was a good hire (despite the fact he is completely unproven and has always worked under Hammond who many disliked) the way he was hired was embarrassing. It lead to a espn article about the dysfunction of our ownership group which even if untrue ( looking at all the evidence you must be blind to think so) still isn't a good look. That fallout from that could lead to talented FO personnel not wanting to work here or even players distrusting our ownership. Not saying it is likely but even so it was not good no matter the spin put on it. So even if you liked the basketball moves they made how you can give anything other than a C seems very homerish. Personally I put a D but a F is a better choice on reflection. I didn't like the draft, FA, or GM decisions and this off season reaffirmed my belief that our ownership is of the Jerry Jones mold of meddling. Worse still our ownership is Jerry Jones with split personality and three personas that all seem to have a different direction for this teams future, God, its so frustrating that the first superstar we have had in my time watching the bucks has a good chance of being wasted. The life of a Bucks fan I guess. Also coach Kidd .

[Baddy Chuck]

Because I would assume on that hiring he had the support and checkbooks from a couple other billionaires (with a b) who wanted Zanik in that spot all along, all the way up until Edens vetoed it.

How did Zanik make it all the way through the process to be a finalist? If Edens hated Zanik and was never going to approve him to be GM, it seems like he would've made that point clear immediately. My guess is Zanik would be the Bucks GM right now if Horst didn't exist.

Honest opinion I think if Edens isn't in the ownership group Horst is out the door following Hammond/McKinney and Zanik is our GM. I think Zanik had the support of LEDK from the start and then Edens grew weary of the Lasry/Kidd stranglehold and no longer wanted "their guy" in charge. I don't think Edens wanted anything to do with Zanik from the start of the GM search and when his choice, the Lithuanian, cucked us we scrambled to find a non LDK choice and rather than extending the process well into to offseason they tried saving face by bringing in the wunderkind who somehow even fellow NBA front office members didn't even know existed.

And to add to this I think they know Horst, having had 9 years learning from the best yes man in the business, will know how to navigate the LEDK minefield and not step on anybodies toes. He'll give a solid handshake, a convincing "yes sir" and will shut the door on the way out of the office without even being told to no matter which one of them gave him the marching order.

[Wooderson]

Then why have this whole horst and pony show prior to naming him? These guys care about optics and likely knew the fallout from how it all went down. Really doesn't make much sense.

It doesn't hurt to bring a wide variety of people in for interviews and explore all of your options. I don't think they made up their mind on Horst before the hiring process began. I think they made up their mind on Horst after interviewing the other candidates. I think Horst was always a candidate.

If he'd been a public candidate from the get go the reactions would be quite different.

And there's this, which matches up with Baddy's post.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/presents-19767339/zach-lowe-brian-windhorst-milwaukee-bucks-ownership-giannis-antetokounmpo-nba

Even Horst was surprised by the move. According to sources, the job was already earmarked for him when he was summoned to see the owners two weeks ago in New York, even though he didn't know he was a candidate. The team began planning a news conference before Horst had even signed his deal.

Horst's hiring was a brokered solution after some disagreement among the ownership, sources say. When Horst had his introductory news conference last week in Milwaukee, Edens was the only partner present. That was not an accident. Lasry and Dinan had legitimate scheduling conflicts but could have made time for the event had they really wanted to be there, sources say.

[smauss]

I agree that there are guys that will improve on this roster, and I also agree that Giannis could be one of them. Personally, I think Brogdon won't have your typical "soph slump" but I really don't know how much improvement he will make. He was really good last year, making very good decisions, and we were a better team with him on the floor, still I believe he will continue to do that this year. Middleton, and to a greater extent, Vaughn have their strengths in jump shooting not necessarily in creating their shots. Now maybe they or someone else will fill that hole but........

[FlagsFlyForever]

How did Zanik make it all the way through the process to be a finalist? If Edens hated Zanik and was never going to approve him to be GM, it seems like he would've made that point clear immediately. My guess is Zanik would be the Bucks GM right now if Horst didn't exist.

Honest opinion I think if Edens isn't in the ownership group Horst is out the door following Hammond/McKinney and Zanik is our GM. I think Zanik had the support of LEDK from the start and then Edens grew weary of the Lasry/Kidd stranglehold and no longer wanted "their guy" in charge. I don't think Edens wanted anything to do with Zanik from the start of the GM search and when his choice, the Lithuanian, cucked us we scrambled to find a non LDK choice and rather than extending the process well into to offseason they tried saving face by bringing in the wunderkind who somehow even fellow NBA front office members didn't even know existed.

You have to have an extremely low opinion of LED in order for this to make sense.

And to add to this I think they know Horst, having had 9 years learning from the best yes man in the business, will know how to navigate the LEDK minefield and not step on anybodies toes. He'll give a solid handshake, a convincing "yes sir" and will shut the door on the way out of the office without even being told to no matter which one of them gave him the marching order.

So when Horst says that he will be in complete control, do you think he is lying or do you think LED lied to him?

[Baddy Chuck]

So when Horst says that he will be in complete control, do you think he is lying or do you think LED lied to him?

I think saying "after months of searching and failing to find a GM we stumbled upon a guy who we know will do what we want" probably doesn't instill a lot of confidence at a press conference.

[Baddy Chuck]

You have to have an extremely low opinion of LED in order for this to make sense.

And nah, it makes a ton of sense from all the reports we've seen this offseason from everybody from Woelfel to Lowe and Woj.

[ReasonablySober]

Again, you guys are absolutely miserable.

[Baddy Chuck]

Again, you guys are absolutely miserable.

So block us?

[blazza18]

Fans should trust the organisation that's been a complete dumpster fire for decades to know what they are doing.

[Baddy Chuck]

Fans should trust the organisation that's been a complete dumpster fire for decades to know what they are doing.

Nah, they just shouldn't care.

[FlagsFlyForever]

You have to have an extremely low opinion of LED in order for this to make sense.

And nah, it makes a ton of sense from all the reports we've seen this offseason from everybody from Woelfel to Lowe and Woj.

If Edens wanted nothing to do with Zanik from the very beginning of the GM search because he didn't want a Kidd puppet as GM, then why would he allow Zanik to remain a leading candidate throughout the search? You're saying Zanik never had a chance to be GM and yet he was a finalist. You have to have a very low opinion of Edens in order for that to make any sense. All three owners needed to approve of the new GM so Edens could've told Lasry and Dinan that he wouldn't approve Zanik from the get go if his mind was already made up.

You're saying Horst is well aware he's a lame duck. If that's what LED wanted then why did they have such an extensive GM search and bring in some very experienced GMs (such as former Hawks GM, Wes Wilcox)?

You said they hired Horst in order to "save face" instead of calling back any of their previous interviewees or setting up additional interviews with new candidates. And yet it was obvious, without the benefit of hindsight, how the hiring of Horst would be perceived. You have to believe LED are can't-tie-their-shoelaces stupid to think they would hire Horst as the GM of their franchise in an attempt to save themselves from public embarrassment.

[Prez]

Woj, Lowe, Windhorst, hell even Buckpack have either hinted at or straight up called the ownership group utterly dysfunctional. Just more miserable people I guess.

[ReasonablySober]

Fans should trust the organisation that's been a complete dumpster fire for decades to know what they are doing.

Nah, they just shouldn't care.

How about just not assume the worst at every turn?

[Baddy Chuck]

If Edens wanted nothing to do with Zanik from the very beginning of the GM search because he didn't want a Kidd puppet as GM, then why would he allow Zanik to remain a leading candidate throughout the search? You're saying Zanik never had a chance to be GM and yet he was a finalist. You have to have a very low opinion of Edens in order for that to make any sense. All three owners needed to approve of the new GM so Edens could've told Lasry and Dinan that he wouldn't approve Zanik from the get go if his mind was already made up.

To be honest I have a higher opinion of Edens now than then for sticking to his guns. I think he saw the Lasry/Kidd connection dragging down the team, which I agree with, and wanted out of it as much as possible. I wasn't previously aware of how connected Zanik apparently was to that combo so stepping aside from that marriage makes sense to me. Unfortunately the guy that had the best credentials played us and we were left with our dick in our hands. PLENTY of organizations bring in people for interviews they have no intentions of hiring, and when 2/3's of an ownership group (and the coach) wants a guy it makes all the sense in the world for that person to be a finalist. Ultimately, it took all three votes to get done and they couldn't convince Edens, for better or worse.

You're saying Horst is well aware he's a lame duck. If that's what LED wanted then why did they have such an extensive GM search and bring in some very experienced GMs (such as former Hawks GM, Wes Wilcox)?

You said they hired Horst in order to "save face" instead of calling back any of their previous interviewees or setting up additional interviews with new candidates. And yet it was obvious, without the benefit of hindsight, how the hiring of Horst would be perceived. You have to believe LED are can't-tie-their-shoelaces stupid to think they would hire Horst as the GM of their franchise in an attempt to save themselves from public embarrassment.

I don't think Horst is a lame duck. I think he's like Hammond. I think he's a guy who the ownership group knows they can maneuver around and work with. I don't think he was brought in as a stepping stone for the next guy. I think there's a lot of GM's in the league who wouldn't put up with the stuff that Hammond and I'm sure Horst will have to deal with. Hell, even Hammond ultimately bolted from the situation. I'm sure Horst is not without his merits but I think that is a big reasoning why he got the nod in the end. I don't think hiring Jon Horst as the GM was the save face attempt, I think hiring ANYBODY after the fiasco that was that search was the attempt. Not that anybody really cares about the Bucks but if that search continued on past the draft and free agency like it very well could have a ton of eyebrows would have been raised to the situation and ultimately they might not have ended up with a guy much better than Horst.