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Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo

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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1601 » by M-C-G » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:30 am

Eh, I am a big fan of Brogdon, but DDV is a better player. Brogdon was a fairly limited shoot wide open 3 or drive to the hoop, with an underappreciated passing game. His defense was better in theory than in actuality. With over 220 minutes played, only Mr. Invisible himself had a worse DRTG last season.

Year before that, only a 1 legged Delly and Mr. Invisible had a worse DRTG with players over 22 minutes played. Year before that, Delly, Snell, Telly, Jet were the only ones worse.

His defense just didn't translate like I thought it would. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy him a ton while he was here, such a great player to root for. But in the end, he was a limited offensive player with incredible efficiency as long as he stayed in that role.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1602 » by jute2003 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:34 am

H2tObes wrote:
WRau1 wrote:
Chapter29 wrote:I love me some Donte and he's been a great surprise for us this year. Better than Brogdon? Come on now people.

Perhaps he will become a better player, but he isn't there at this moment.


His impact on this team is completely comparable to Brogdon's, some cases better.

It is better, Bucks are better with DDV on the court than they ever were with Brogdon. This does not directly correlate to DDV being a better player, but it does mean that DDV is a better fit for this team.
No it doesn't. It means that the team as a whole is better and Donte doesn't suck. It says absolutely nothing about how good the team would or wouldn't be with Brogdon this year.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1603 » by H2tObes » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:47 am

jute2003 wrote:
H2tObes wrote:
WRau1 wrote:
His impact on this team is completely comparable to Brogdon's, some cases better.

It is better, Bucks are better with DDV on the court than they ever were with Brogdon. This does not directly correlate to DDV being a better player, but it does mean that DDV is a better fit for this team.
No it doesn't. It means that the team as a whole is better and Donte doesn't suck. It says absolutely nothing about how good the team would or wouldn't be with Brogdon this year.

Donte leads the entire league in net rating at 17.2, the next closest is Giannis at 14.9. Donte is the league leader in defensive rating at 97.0, the next closest is Giannis at 98.3. But yeah, Donte just "doesn"t suck" and the team is just better this year.

The team is at it's best with Donte on the floor, more so than ever with Brogdon. The individual impact stats are no coincidence. He's been an all-defense guy this season, something that Brogdon was really just average at.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1604 » by TroyD92 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:52 am

Admittedly don’t watch pacers games, but Malcolms stats are all down from last year especially in efficiency.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1605 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:06 am

M-C-G wrote:Eh, I am a big fan of Brogdon, but DDV is a better player. Brogdon was a fairly limited shoot wide open 3 or drive to the hoop, with an underappreciated passing game. His defense was better in theory than in actuality. With over 220 minutes played, only Mr. Invisible himself had a worse DRTG last season.

Year before that, only a 1 legged Delly and Mr. Invisible had a worse DRTG with players over 22 minutes played. Year before that, Delly, Snell, Telly, Jet were the only ones worse.

His defense just didn't translate like I thought it would. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy him a ton while he was here, such a great player to root for. But in the end, he was a limited offensive player with incredible efficiency as long as he stayed in that role.


I agree with basically all of this. The only exception, besides the fact that DRTG is crazy noisy, might be that I think he could have been put in a better spot defensively by being used a small-ball SF. I think that was the perfect role for him, and he seemed to do a good job guarding Kawhi. He was just too slow guarding back-court players though; there's no hiding that. When he and Delly were the PG's, it was all-you-can-eat buffet time for opposing play-makers. But not only did he not want to be a 3-guard; he didn't even want to be a SG.

DDV is just so much more dynamic. No, he's not gonna touch 50/40/90, and will probably never come close... but he gives the Bucks a pretty big advantage any time he's on the court. You can't just count the deflections; you have to count all the passes teams can't make because he's in the way. You can't just count the stops; you have to count all the times he forces someone to pass because they're accomplishing nothing and the shot clock is winding down. Bottom line, his effect on the scoring margin is better than Brogdon's, regardless of his counting stats.

RPM, while not perfect, agrees. Brogdon was no better than Hill last year, and honestly he's not much better than his backups this year.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1606 » by jschligs » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:21 am

TroyD92 wrote:Admittedly don’t watch pacers games, but Malcolms stats are all down from last year especially in efficiency.


I will add that he is taking 2 more shot attempts per game and carrying more of a load which tends to hurt efficiency. But his injuries alone are enough to make me just fine that we mutually parted ways. It worked out for both teams beautifully, Donte got more minutes now and he is an absolute stud, plus the picks and others we were able to sign.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1607 » by Shaffty » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:55 am

TroyD92 wrote:Admittedly don’t watch pacers games, but Malcolms stats are all down from last year especially in efficiency.



he plays exactly like last year but has less space, and has a great pick n pop big to farm assists off of.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1608 » by Pachinko_ » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:17 am

Counting on Donte to replace Brogdon might low key be one of Horst's most brilliant moves. Brogdon is probably the better player overall IMO, but he's really good at things we don't need, while Donte is better at things we actually need. Really the only thing Brogdon was bettet at and we actually needed is being 50/40/90, but DDV is so much faster that he will take shots Brogdon wouldn't even dream of so it kind of evens out, and on top he's a much better help defender, and is fast enough to actually stay in front of guys like Kemba and Kyrie.

So we made the swap, gave up nothing basketball wise, and walked away with 20m of saved cap space + a FRP.
Brilliant.

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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1609 » by Ayt » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:32 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:Counting on Donte to replace Brogdon might low key be one of Horst's most brilliant moves. Brogdon is probably the better player overall IMO, but he's really good at things we don't need, while Donte is better at things we actually need. Really the only thing Brogdon was bettet at and we actually needed is being 50/40/90, but DDV is so much faster that he will take shots Brogdon wouldn't even dream of so it kind of evens out, and on top he's a much better help defender, and is fast enough to actually stay in front of guys like Kemba and Kyrie.

So we made the swap, gave up nothing basketball wise, and walked away with 20m of saved cap space + a FRP.
Brilliant.

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I was going to make a similar post. A huge thing Donte has on Brogdon defensively beyond all the obvious is his ability to play high level defense while going over screens. That isn't easy and is an extremely important skill in our defense. Brogdon wasn't bad at it, but he also wasn't particularly good at it, especially against faster guards.

Donte is also outstanding at something other players are either terrible at or don't even try which is denying the ball. It disrupts the offense and sometimes even leads to turnovers that aren't credited to Donte when the team gets flustered and tries to pass to someone else. I posted a play earlier in the year that I can't find at the moment where he denied all the way out to halfcourt which resulted in a crosscourt pass that was easily picked off. That ability could be huge in the playoffs if a guy is going off like FVV last year, and is another one of the "little things" he does that don't show up in the boxscore.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1610 » by Pachinko_ » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:06 am

Ayt wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:Counting on Donte to replace Brogdon might low key be one of Horst's most brilliant moves. Brogdon is probably the better player overall IMO, but he's really good at things we don't need, while Donte is better at things we actually need. Really the only thing Brogdon was bettet at and we actually needed is being 50/40/90, but DDV is so much faster that he will take shots Brogdon wouldn't even dream of so it kind of evens out, and on top he's a much better help defender, and is fast enough to actually stay in front of guys like Kemba and Kyrie.

So we made the swap, gave up nothing basketball wise, and walked away with 20m of saved cap space + a FRP.
Brilliant.

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I was going to make a similar post. A huge thing Donte has on Brogdon defensively beyond all the obvious is his ability to play high level defense while going over screens. That isn't easy and is an extremely important skill in our defense. Brogdon wasn't bad at it, but he also wasn't particularly good at it, especially against faster guards.

Donte is also outstanding at something other players are either terrible at or don't even try which is denying the ball. It disrupts the offense and sometimes even leads to turnovers that aren't credited to Donte when the team gets flustered and tries to pass to someone else. I posted a play earlier in the year that I can't find at the moment where he denied all the way out to halfcourt which resulted in a crosscourt pass that was easily picked off. That ability could be huge in the playoffs if a guy is going off like FVV last year, and is another one of the "little things" he does that don't show up in the boxscore.

Yeah defense is night and day, again not that Brogdon was bad but Donte fills a very targeted need that we had, which is another guy who can chase fast guards and do the things you said. If you think about it we only had Bledsoe before and you can only ride him for so long.

On offense Brogdon is great at putting his head and his shoulder down and bullying smaller guards all the way to the basket. Also great at setting up the team and executing set plays. These are great PG qualities for a team like Indiana, but we had other guys we wanted to do those things (also we don't really do many set plays to begin with). The thing with Brogdon is that we really needed him to finish whatever he's doing with the ball within 2 seconds or less, and often he didn't. But that's exactly DDV's specialty.

Pretty much the only thing the team misses from Brogdon basketball wise is how freakishly accurate he was on wide open shots. And that's important because he was getting a lot of them, but not as important as the all the other things combined (IMO).
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1611 » by ampd » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:08 pm

DDV still flying under the radar with guys who dont watch us regularly it seems. Just saw this

https://pippenainteasy.com/2020/01/28/chicago-bulls-3-trade-packages-with-the-milwaukee-bucks/amp/1/

Where this guy thinks its plausible wed trade DDV, ersan, and DJ for thad young, Denzel Valentine and a future 2nd.

Meanwhile I'm thinking we probably hang up the phone and laugh at that offer just for DDV.

Our supporting cast is criminally underrated in general honestly, I've seen our guys in a lot of very weird trade proposals like people think this team is like the early lebron Cavs.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1612 » by emunney » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:25 pm

ampd wrote:DDV still flying under the radar with guys who dont watch us regularly it seems. Just saw this

https://pippenainteasy.com/2020/01/28/chicago-bulls-3-trade-packages-with-the-milwaukee-bucks/amp/1/

Where this guy thinks its plausible wed trade DDV, ersan, and DJ for thad young, Denzel Valentine and a future 2nd.

Meanwhile I'm thinking we probably hang up the phone and laugh at that offer just for DDV.

Our supporting cast is criminally underrated in general honestly, I've seen our guys in a lot of very weird trade proposals like people think this team is like the early lebron Cavs.


Wouldn't trade DDV OR Ersan for that package.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1613 » by emunney » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:29 pm

The third trade is way more ridiculous: Ilyasova, Bledsoe, Donte for Dunn, Sato, Young. Totally insane. I wouldn't move that group for anybody on their roster.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1614 » by MiltownHawkeye » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:46 pm

I've begun questioning whether Brogdon was even good for our team's chemistry. He played kinda selfishly at times and it's apparent now that he really wanted to be on a team where he can run the show, not where he's just a cog.

Now we have a very clear pecking order where everyone in the main rotation is satisfied with their roles, everyone got paid, no one is worried about their stats or pressing.

I don't even blame Brogdon for feeling that way, I still want him to do well in Indiana. But the locker room just seems so much less tense now.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1615 » by ampd » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:06 pm

emunney wrote:The third trade is way more ridiculous: Ilyasova, Bledsoe, Donte for Dunn, Sato, Young. Totally insane. I wouldn't move that group for anybody on their roster.

Yeah that's a trade you could only propose if you either massively overvalue thad young or dont even consider why the bucks would make a trade at this point in the season and what wed actually be looking for if we did.

We already have a ton of depth and are trying to win the championship not trade Bledsoe for worse players.

For the life of me I cant really figure the bulls would want to pair Bledsoe with lavine either considering how badly it worked out when phoenix tried to force him into a double point guard situation on a bad team.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1616 » by jimmybones » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:24 pm

MiltownHawkeye wrote:I've begun questioning whether Brogdon was even good for our team's chemistry. He played kinda selfishly at times and it's apparent now that he really wanted to be on a team where he can run the show, not where he's just a cog.

Now we have a very clear pecking order where everyone in the main rotation is satisfied with their roles, everyone got paid, no one is worried about their stats or pressing.

I don't even blame Brogdon for feeling that way, I still want him to do well in Indiana. But the locker room just seems so much less tense now.


While I get why Brogdon felt that way, I can’t wrap my head around preferring a slight bump in the pecking order vs a legitimate chance at a title(s). And it seems obvious that was his preference.

A lot of great Donte-actual-b-ball-talk in here boys, loving it.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1617 » by MiltownHawkeye » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:31 pm

jimmybones wrote:
MiltownHawkeye wrote:I've begun questioning whether Brogdon was even good for our team's chemistry. He played kinda selfishly at times and it's apparent now that he really wanted to be on a team where he can run the show, not where he's just a cog.

Now we have a very clear pecking order where everyone in the main rotation is satisfied with their roles, everyone got paid, no one is worried about their stats or pressing.

I don't even blame Brogdon for feeling that way, I still want him to do well in Indiana. But the locker room just seems so much less tense now.


While I get why Brogdon felt that way, I can’t wrap my head around preferring a slight bump in the pecking order vs a legitimate chance at a title(s). And it seems obvious that was his preference.

A lot of great Donte-actual-b-ball-talk in here boys, loving it.

I mean he got to play as the primary ball-handler for a couple months, whereas here he was arguably our 4th ball-handler. I don't think that's insignificant, but to your point I'd rather have guys who all buy into their roles.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1618 » by msiris » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:44 pm

I am over Brogdon begin gone because of DDV. He is my kind of my favorite guy. I see him as our starting SG next year.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1619 » by jimmybones » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:50 pm

MiltownHawkeye wrote:
jimmybones wrote:
MiltownHawkeye wrote:I've begun questioning whether Brogdon was even good for our team's chemistry. He played kinda selfishly at times and it's apparent now that he really wanted to be on a team where he can run the show, not where he's just a cog.

Now we have a very clear pecking order where everyone in the main rotation is satisfied with their roles, everyone got paid, no one is worried about their stats or pressing.

I don't even blame Brogdon for feeling that way, I still want him to do well in Indiana. But the locker room just seems so much less tense now.


While I get why Brogdon felt that way, I can’t wrap my head around preferring a slight bump in the pecking order vs a legitimate chance at a title(s). And it seems obvious that was his preference.

A lot of great Donte-actual-b-ball-talk in here boys, loving it.

I mean he got to play as the primary ball-handler for a couple months, whereas here he was arguably our 4th ball-handler. I don't think that's insignificant, but to your point I'd rather have guys who all buy into their roles.


Exactly. These are humans that are all different and it’s easy to say on the outside looking in, but it’s just easier for me to understand and root for guys buying in and placing the team first, especially when it’s working- very well.

Either Brogdon was the only guy that seemed to value personal spot in the pecking order over team success. Or like you said, the pecking order is so clear now that it’s hard for anyone to see otherwise. Regardless, we’re in a good place it seems having seemingly the entire roster content and hungry in their specific roles.
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Re: Round 1 - Donte DiVincenzo 

Post#1620 » by theFireBlanket » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:06 pm

Donte could start at SG in the future or he could be the 6th man with the most bench minutes. All about fit of who's available to start otherwise. As long as he's featured I doubt he'd mind it.
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