PG Sixers: Season Over

[KidA24]

Mirotic doesn't seem much better to me than Teletovic, if he's not hitting his shot he's pretty much worthless. DJ to me seems like an easily better player who should see the floor more the Nikola or Pau at this point.

In 2019, DJ Wilson is shooting 32% from 3 and 27% from the FT line. In what way is he "clearly a better player" than Mirotic?

[JayMKE]

Mirotic doesn't seem much better to me than Teletovic, if he's not hitting his shot he's pretty much worthless. DJ to me seems like an easily better player who should see the floor more the Nikola or Pau at this point.

In 2019, DJ Wilson is shooting 32% from 3 and 27% from the FT line. In what way is he "clearly a better player" than Mirotic?

That's a pretty small sample size but he's clearly a better defensive player and I think can be more versatile on offense if given a chance & more defined role there. Mirotic has a really quick shot but a lot of the time it seems off balance and rushed. Defense I think is just way more important for us at the position especially the kind DJ can bring so long as he can knock down the open 3.

[MikeIsGood]

I think we can clear Giannis

[FrieAaron]

No doubt DJs calling card has been defense this year, but I don't think Mirotic has been as bad on that end as some are making him out to be. Post all-star our defensive rating is slightly worse with him off the court than on, while Middleton, Lopez and Bledsoe (whom I have been a big fan of this season) are opposite. And his defended field goal % is second best over that period (tied with Middleton). The DFG% of Snell, Ilyasova, Pau and DJ are all over 50%

I'm about as worried about his 0/6 shooting as much as I was about Brook's 0/12 night - not very. This feels a lot like our 5-4 stretch early in the season when people thought we'd be struggling to be 10 games over all year.

[Bucksfan28]

We got Philly's best effort and didnt match. Thats all I chalk this up to.

Embiid made a lot of junk that could easily shoot them out of a game/series. A little more resistance from Brook would help..

[Wooderson]

Philly scored 79 points on 70 shots outside the paint, hitting at a mostly unsustainable rate. Some nights that's gonna happen, especially with this D. Non-Embiid players were 11-19 from 3.

[TD75]

https://stats.nba.com/game/0021801043/matchups/?OFF_PLAYER_ID=&DEF_PLAYER_ID=203114

Matchups data:

Reminder:

Matchup possessions are attributed to the player vs. player matchup that occurred for the longest number of seconds on the possession.

...so take that how you wish.


Khris had a decent defensive game according to Second Spectrum data. Jimmy scored 12 points on 40% shooting on Mids, while Embiid got two FTs from him and Scott hit that 3 over Khris.

Giannis had a pretty bad defensive game, allowing 9 of 11 shooting to 6 players for 21 points.

Bledsoe allowed 7 of 12 shooting for 19 points to Jimmy, Redick, and McConnell.

Lopez did an admirable job on Embiid, allowing 44% shooting, 3 of 11 on 3s.

Offensively, Bledsoe and Mirotic were a mess.

I love stats. Especially the ones without context

Let's take a look at Butler's performance, who was mainly guarded by Middeton (before the Bucks put PatC on him):

Watch on YouTube

at: 0:30 you can see Middleton casually losing his charge on a drive without the screen playing any factor. Butler ends up scoring basically a floater in front of Lopez (Middleton in great position to congratulate Butler after the attempt).

at 1:08, Khris goes under the screen, Butler makes the long range two.

At 2:06 of the same clip you can clearly see peak defense from Middleton. Clearly does not matter, because Butler did not even make the attempt. Even if he made the attempt, I am not sure the stats would credit Middleton's otherworldly defense for this (he got blown by so fast and it was Giannis and PatC trying to save the defense and contesting the shot).

At 2:18 Middleton switches for no reason away from his charge (no big deal, still a switch that can happen). Butler makes the shot on top of Mirotic but Mirotic contested the shot fine.

Also, see at the contests that PatC is making on Butler (1:99, 2:26). He got scored on, but there was nothing wrong with the way he defended.

At 2:35 of this clip you can clearly see Giannis being a bad defender because he got scored on by Butler.

Giannis played "bad defense" because he got scored on. PatC also played bad defense. Middleton was good though.

For the icing on the cake, go at 1:46 of the clip, where you can see prime locked in Middleton.

Better start watching some games.

[Ron Swanson]

Huh? Middleton's defense was fine against Butler. He made some contested long-2's, a three, and a tough floater where he got funneled into Giannis (which was the right assignment) and all of a sudden it's "bad defense" cuz he converts them? Middleton struggled the few times he was asked to chase Reddick because he was just dying on screens.

Better start watching some games.

[crkone]

https://stats.nba.com/game/0021801043/matchups/?OFF_PLAYER_ID=&DEF_PLAYER_ID=203114

Matchups data:

Reminder:

Matchup possessions are attributed to the player vs. player matchup that occurred for the longest number of seconds on the possession.

...so take that how you wish.


Khris had a decent defensive game according to Second Spectrum data. Jimmy scored 12 points on 40% shooting on Mids, while Embiid got two FTs from him and Scott hit that 3 over Khris.

Giannis had a pretty bad defensive game, allowing 9 of 11 shooting to 6 players for 21 points.

Bledsoe allowed 7 of 12 shooting for 19 points to Jimmy, Redick, and McConnell.

Lopez did an admirable job on Embiid, allowing 44% shooting, 3 of 11 on 3s.

Offensively, Bledsoe and Mirotic were a mess.

I love stats. Especially the ones without context

Let's take a look at Butler's performance, who was mainly guarded by Middeton (before the Bucks put PatC on him):

Watch on YouTube

at: 0:30 you can see Middleton casually losing his charge on a drive without the screen playing any factor. Butler ends up scoring basically a floater in front of Lopez (Middleton in great position to congratulate Butler after the attempt).

at 1:08, Khris goes under the screen, Butler makes the long range two.

At 2:06 of the same clip you can clearly see peak defense from Middleton. Clearly does not matter, because Butler did not even make the attempt. Even if he made the attempt, I am not sure the stats would credit Middleton's otherworldly defense for this, since it was Giannis and PatC trying to save the defense and contesting the shot.

At 2:18 Middleton switches for no reason away from his charge (no big deal, still a switch that can happen). Butler makes the shot on top of Mirotic (so according to "stats" blame Mirotic for this, even though he contested the shot fine).

Also, see at the contests that PatC is making on Butler (1:99, 2:26). He got scored on, but there was nothing wrong with the way he defended.

At 2:35 of this clip you can clearly see Giannis being a bad defender because he got scored on by Butler. If he had left the lane open to not be even close to contest, stats would not have charged Giannis with this egregious defensive effort.

Giannis played "bad defense" because he got scored on. PatC also played bad defense. Middleton was good though.

For the icing on the cake, go at 1:46 of the clip, where you can see prime locked in Middleton.

Better start watching some games.

Really?
At :30, Mids is worried about the pick. Butler shakes him. Happens to everyone.
At 1:08, you want Butler to take the long 2. That's called good defense. If it was a 3, you go over. Still shot was made on him so it is counted.
At. 2:06, Mids was the only one protecting the weakside and the basket. What the hell was Pat doing there? He was guarding no one. Still Mids was the primary defender (on 3 players that possession) and had it scored on him.
At 2:18, yes the switch is fine. Mirotic has a late contest to his shot because he has to play for the drive. Still it was a shot made on Mirotic. Shows he can't guard Jimmy and you can't blame him for it.
At 1:59, Pat's playing for the drive and allows Butler to set up for the contested shot.
At 2:26, Pat's again too far away from Butler and allows the pullup.
At 2:35, Giannis wasn't the primary defender and it wouldn't have counted as him in the possession. It was a **** PnR defense by Mirotic and Bledsoe.
At 1:46, it's a foul by Butler slapping the hand of Mids. You can see Mids barking at the ref afterwards. I mean he probably should have eyes behind his head though.

If you are trying to say that stats by themselves can be taken out of context, I completely agree hence the warning at the beginning of my post. I can, if you want, go through all of Butler's misses while Mids was guarding him when the videos come out today or tomorrow if you wish. I have done this in the past, a few weeks ago the last time I did it.

[TD75]

Huh? Middleton's defense was fine against Butler. He made some contested long-2's, a three, and a tough floater where he got funneled into Giannis (which was the right assignment) and all of a sudden it's "bad defense" cuz he converts them? Middleton struggled the few times he was asked to chase Reddick because he was just dying on screens.

Better start watching some games.

"Contested" long twos

[TD75]

Really?
At :30, Mids is worried about the pick. Butler shakes him. Happens to everyone.

It happens to Middleton very often.

At 1:08, you want Butler to take the long 2. That's called good defense. If it was a 3, you go over. Still shot was made on him so it is counted.

I disagree, you don't need to give up an uncontested two, especially set. It is not a bad shot, especially compared (for example) a floater while driving (which is the shot the Bucks like to give away). I don't feel strongly about this though.

At. 2:06, Mids was the only one protecting the weakside and the basket. What the hell was Pat doing there? He was guarding no one. Still Mids was the primary defender (on 3 players that possession) and had it scored on him.

If that was Pat's assignment I agree with you. I did not see him in the frame when I wrote the original post, so let's put this on Pat.

At 2:18, yes the switch is fine. Mirotic has a late contest to his shot because he has to play for the drive. Still it was a shot made on Mirotic. Shows he can't guard Jimmy and you can't blame him for it.

Late contest is fine, because he does not want to get blown by.

At 1:59, Pat's playing for the drive and allows Butler to set up for the contested shot.

What does even "set up for the contested shot" mean. That was a tough make for Butler and Pat defended this possession great.

If you are trying to say that stats by themselves can be taken out of context, I completely agree hence the warning at the beginning of my post.

Noted, we agree. I certainly value stats (I myself am posting stats quite often here) but some stats (above others) need to be used carefully, probably with context (film).

I can, if you want, go through all of Butler's misses while Mids was guarding him when the videos come out today or tomorrow if you wish. I have done this in the past, a few weeks ago the last time I did it.

That would be great (though I imagine it takes much more time than going through the offensive highlights of a specific player). Mostly interested though about doing this on Giannis' defense yesterday, since you made the comment that "Giannis had a pretty bad defensive game". Giannis gave up two three pointers by Ennis?? that were relatively?? open (in one of them he was screened out of the play if I remember correctly), but overall he played good defense from what I remember. Maybe I am wrong.

Regardless of the above, it appears that we have a different interpretation on the same plays (which is a good defensive play/bad defensive play) so I am not sure we will agree upon something, but I enjoy discussing about such things (especially backed up with stats) a lot. If you have some free time and you wish to do this (go over defensive plays of a player), feel free to do so and we can discuss this.

[Ron Swanson]

Huh? Middleton's defense was fine against Butler. He made some contested long-2's, a three, and a tough floater where he got funneled into Giannis (which was the right assignment) and all of a sudden it's "bad defense" cuz he converts them? Middleton struggled the few times he was asked to chase Reddick because he was just dying on screens.

Better start watching some games.

"Contested" long twos

Against Butler he literally played the defense the way it's designed. Blame Coach Bud I guess if you're gonna be so salty about it.

[TD75]

Huh? Middleton's defense was fine against Butler. He made some contested long-2's, a three, and a tough floater where he got funneled into Giannis (which was the right assignment) and all of a sudden it's "bad defense" cuz he converts them? Middleton struggled the few times he was asked to chase Reddick because he was just dying on screens.

Better start watching some games.

"Contested" long twos

Against Butler he literally played the defense the way it's designed. Blame Coach Bud I guess if you're gonna be so salty about it.

Amazing how for some posters Khris always seems to be doing things (like take contested long twos, dribble the air out of the ball, and get blown by by the mere threat of a screen) because coaches ask him and never because he simply chooses to do them and/or is limited in more ways than people are willing to admit.

[emunney]

**** it's like Butler scores every time in that video. He's unstoppable!

[Bucksfan28]

Pretty disingenuous to think Khris is just winging it out there and not abiding somewhat by a gameplan/encouragement from the staff.

[Ron Swanson]

I find it more amazing that some of you guys seem to see whatever the hell you want to see even when micro-analyzing single games. Like I've ever been one to shy away from calling Middleton's defense overrated in the past and trashing him when he has trash games. Wonder why no one ever trashes BroLo or Giannis for not closing out hard on midrange jump shots? Oh, probably because that's not what the coaching staff wants the players to do.

[emunney]

Some of those could be miscommunications... like when Khris is icing the screen with no help behind him, somebody is in the wrong coverage, but it's not clear who.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

they shot the ball lights out. philly is stacked but lacks shooting. if they shoot close to 50% from 3 then they are the favorites in any game they play for the rest of the season.

we also missed brogdon and will continue to miss him. the big lineup is a nice gizmo but it shouldn't be a thing we have to use.

mirotic is not as impactful as we had hoped. may actually be a net negative compared to ersan or Wilson

middleton isn't a problem. altho it would be great if he was an all nba max type player it doesn't make him bad that he isn't.

those are my little thoughts on the game and for us moving forward.

[Aaron It Out]

Giannis only shooted less than 50% 8 times all year and he had 2 in his first 3 games, he is shooting above 50% in his last 21 games, i imagine not many non Cs have done that before, can we ask someone abou it?

Not sure to what extent they help, but I've emailed the bb-ref guys asking how to look for something particular and they were extremely helpful.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[TD75]

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