Middleton or Tatum

[paulpressey25]

Dropped a post on the Celtics board about Tatum and Brown "failing" as being the biggest reason the C's roster is now ready to implode.

Ainge did everything you could reasonably expect a GM to do right over the past five years.

Hired top five coach - check

Swindled weak teams out of many high lotto picks - check

When loaded with massive pick stash, spent big free agent money, and recruited two of the best complimentary players in the league (Horford and Hayward) - check

Cashed out on value of role players Stevens coached up (IT and Crowder) along with draft pick to get all-star in Kyrie - check.

Had asset ready to pawn off on NOP for AD (Tatum) back in February - check

The only two things that stopped him were neither Tatum nor Brown appear to be all-stars and the CBA provision against trading for two super-max guys stopping the AD trade.

Tatum was the key to it all, but the basketball gods said no.

[SupremeHustle]

I got five pages out of a thread that I really made just to diss Jayson Tatum. You guys are alright with me.

[chonestown]

I thought Tatum showed a diverse, mature offensive game last year and was not a liability on defense, sort of like a Diet Coke version of Melo albeit one who wouldn't hemorrhage points. Instead of building on that, he became Kobe: The Final Years. It's not sexy, but Middleton's best attribute may be his ability to play within himself. I don't know what his future is, but I'd rather have Jaylen Brown than him going forward.

[JEIS]

Kyrie really broke Tatum's confidence. Last year, he was dangerous. He and Kyrie have stunk it up in this series. Hayward contract really sinks this team moving forward. Boston's assets look kind of meh a little like the Lakers. I don't know if they have enough to get AD, or even if they have enough talent to get him, their team will be depleated to the point where he won't want to re-up his contract. They may need to use their 3 picks just to get out of Haywards contract.

[jute2003]

Kyrie really broke Tatum's confidence. Last year, he was dangerous. He and Kyrie have stunk it up in this series.

I think Tatum believed his own hype, found out he wasnt there yet, and Kyrie wasnt smart enough to know how to help him through it.

[JEIS]

Kyrie really broke Tatum's confidence. Last year, he was dangerous. He and Kyrie have stunk it up in this series.

I think Tatum believed his own hype, found out he wasnt there yet, and Kyrie wasnt smart enough to know how to help him through it.

Could be. I just figured Kyrie alpha maled him when he came back this season, bagging on the younger players. Thought that all the youngsters did a good job last year buying into Steven's system. This year Tatum seems to really have dropped off. Figured he just took a back seat to Kyrie and doesn't want to step on toes after conflict.

[jute2003]

Kyrie really broke Tatum's confidence. Last year, he was dangerous. He and Kyrie have stunk it up in this series.

I think Tatum believed his own hype, found out he wasnt there yet, and Kyrie wasnt smart enough to know how to help him through it.

Could be. I just figured Kyrie alpha maled him when he came back this season, bagging on the younger players. Thought that all the youngsters did a good job last year buying into Steven's system. This year Tatum seems to really have dropped off. Figured he just took a back seat to Kyrie and doesn't want to step on toes after conflict.

Basically that is what I would call Kyrie not being smart enough.

[skones]

Dropped a post on the Celtics board about Tatum and Brown "failing" as being the biggest reason the C's roster is now ready to implode.

Ainge did everything you could reasonably expect a GM to do right over the past five years.

Hired top five coach - check

Swindled weak teams out of many high lotto picks - check

When loaded with massive pick stash, spent big free agent money, and recruited two of the best complimentary players in the league (Horford and Hayward) - check

Cashed out on value of role players Stevens coached up (IT and Crowder) along with draft pick to get all-star in Kyrie - check.

Had asset ready to pawn off on NOP for AD (Tatum) back in February - check

The only two things that stopped him were neither Tatum nor Brown appear to be all-stars and the CBA provision against trading for two super-max guys stopping the AD trade.

Tatum was the key to it all, but the basketball gods said no.

This is precisely why dealing Middleton for picks was a dicey proposition at best. Giannis could be sitting here waiting on guys to blossom while being frustrated that they're not yet good enough. It's literally going to cost Boston when they lose Kyrie, and we're sitting here with one leg over the fence with home court in the conference finals on the other side.

Shocked at these poll results given how so many have absolutely **** all over Middleton all year long.

[MAC1987]

Dropped a post on the Celtics board about Tatum and Brown "failing" as being the biggest reason the C's roster is now ready to implode.

Ainge did everything you could reasonably expect a GM to do right over the past five years.

Hired top five coach - check

Swindled weak teams out of many high lotto picks - check

When loaded with massive pick stash, spent big free agent money, and recruited two of the best complimentary players in the league (Horford and Hayward) - check

Cashed out on value of role players Stevens coached up (IT and Crowder) along with draft pick to get all-star in Kyrie - check.

Had asset ready to pawn off on NOP for AD (Tatum) back in February - check

The only two things that stopped him were neither Tatum nor Brown appear to be all-stars and the CBA provision against trading for two super-max guys stopping the AD trade.

Tatum was the key to it all, but the basketball gods said no.

This is precisely why dealing Middleton for picks was a dicey proposition at best. Giannis could be sitting here waiting on guys to blossom while being frustrated that they're not yet good enough. It's literally going to cost Boston when they lose Kyrie, and we're sitting here with one leg over the fence with home court in the conference finals on the other side.

Shocked at these poll results given how so many have absolutely **** all over Middleton all year long.

Tatum being 21 vs Middleton 27 is a big reason why I picked Tatum.

People being upset about Middleton have some really good points. He had to be benched and sat out a game or few because he was dogging it. I like Middleton, but his struggles are sometimes pretty scary.

Another point, the article earlier in the year about him being a max player. Another very scary thing because it could ruin the team. He deserves more credit than some people here think. Not max, not really close to a max either.

[LuessiT]

Dropped a post on the Celtics board about Tatum and Brown "failing" as being the biggest reason the C's roster is now ready to implode.

Ainge did everything you could reasonably expect a GM to do right over the past five years.

Hired top five coach - check

Swindled weak teams out of many high lotto picks - check

When loaded with massive pick stash, spent big free agent money, and recruited two of the best complimentary players in the league (Horford and Hayward) - check

Cashed out on value of role players Stevens coached up (IT and Crowder) along with draft pick to get all-star in Kyrie - check.

Had asset ready to pawn off on NOP for AD (Tatum) back in February - check

The only two things that stopped him were neither Tatum nor Brown appear to be all-stars and the CBA provision against trading for two super-max guys stopping the AD trade.

Tatum was the key to it all, but the basketball gods said no.

Bad take imo. Ainge did a lot of things right, but he didn't do everything right. Celtics blew a lot of their assets because Ainge refused to consilidate them at a loss. Just as an example, Celtics cut their second round pick Ben Bentil after playing 3 preseason games. Or the Celtis were forced to cut one of James Young or RJ Hunter in year 2.
Going for Horford is imo one of his more underrated moves but going for Hayward was always going to be an awkward fit. The injury didn't help but the Celtics had a major hole at the PF/C position and haven't been adressing it. Their team identity on offense sucks. They don't take attempts at the rim - literally the most efficient shot - and that is by design and personal. On defense they intend on running a switch-everything scheme, which fits some of their personal very well (Horford, Brown, Morris, Smart) but other players not so much (Irving, Tatum). The latter may be able to improve but why target Kyrie in the first place if you intend to run such a system? They would have been so much better of trading for PG (or trading for Cousins and playing man to man).
They may now have a major asset running out of the door before their young talent is even ready to compete. Talk about missing your window.
Multiple star players hit the market and Ainge refused to trade for them and ultimately made the wrong choice in going after Irving imo. Ainge is certainly a top GM, but it's not like everything he touched turned to gold.

Now to Tatum. Are people writing him off because he's not a 20ppg player right now? Tatum's game is all finesse. He's not that impressive of an athlete, he doesn't have a special physical profile. His game revolves around his jumper. And improving that craft takes time. And he's clearly improved upon last year. It doesn't help that Tatum's usage is low. He has to take shots in the rythum off the offense because he's in a team with lots of talent fighting for seeding. He's not allowed to take consequetive bad shots and learn from that. Imo he's going to have a similar trajectory to Bradley Beal. He's just going work on adding moves revolving around his jumper every season, at some point get a max contract. Wether he takes his jumper so far that it opens up the rest of his game is up in the air, but there is no way I'm writing him off now.

[DingleJerry]

Overall of course Ainge has done great. But I agree he missed one big move along the way by hoarding all these picks and young guys instead of going for it. now, one could obviously say with the GSW powerhouse it wasn't an illogical move. But essentially yea he tried to rip everyone off on trades and held his 'assets' but then the assets expired. They've had to just use 1sts on draft/stash players because they don't have the roster spots. If they don't pull off a consolidation trade this offseason they'll likely have to do it again.

[Brewhoopfan]

I have no idea how Tatum will develop. The trajectory will be up to him. It's not debatable IMO Middleton is the better player right now. I also think we're seeing Middleton's ceiling if not really close to it. The comparison is of two players at completely different points of their career. At age 21, Middleton averaged 13.2 ppg and Tatum averaged 15.7. Middleton's ppg came while playing at Texas A&M. What Tatum has done to this point is impressive. If there is one red flag, it's the idea that his name came up in trade talks at all. The Celts see him every day and they know his work ethic. Perhaps they aren't impressed with it.

[DavidDunn21]

LOL, probably?

You're only saying that because we got 20 points picking his spots nice compliment Khris last night. (With 5 bad turnovers)

4-14 Khris is coming. He can't control that any more than Bledsoe can stop being a ticking time bomb. So that's why I said "probably"

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22/7/4 and you are still so attached to your agenda it's leaving marks on your reputation as a gifted short video-maker. I really hope for you, you can learn to let go of your takes when they are not relevant. We all know you dislike Middleton's game. We all know Middleton was obnoxiously average for durations of the season. AND, we also all know he is a clutch playoff performer against the Celtics. It's OK to allow this and simply shut your mouth. It really is.

1. Thank you for saying that
2. The only reason I even noticed the difference between what Middleton puts on the court and how people talk about him is because I make videos.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using RealGM mobile app

[emunney]

I thought Tatum showed a diverse, mature offensive game last year and was not a liability on defense, sort of like a Diet Coke version of Melo albeit one who wouldn't hemorrhage points. Instead of building on that, he became Kobe: The Final Years. It's not sexy, but Middleton's best attribute may be his ability to play within himself. I don't know what his future is, but I'd rather have Jaylen Brown than him going forward.

Tatum can't defend Giannis with his best effort, but what we've seen in the one-on-ones he's drawn has been horrendous. Barely sits in a stance and doesn't even try to move his feet. Giannis plays like he's not even there, beats him like a drum every single time. Makes Ben Simmons look like a challenge.

[Isocleas2]

The bucks only have 2 goals the next couple years, compete for a championship and resign Giannis. That's it. Middleton is simply better at this point in his career and he provides a greater chance for resigning Giannis since he's practically family (and Giannis rides and dies for the fam).

If it was almost any other team/scenario though I'd probably gamble on Tatum. Younger, cheaper, and probably has a peak in a few years where he's just as good as Middleton is now if not better.