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OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers)

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OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#1 » by MickeyDavis » Tue May 14, 2019 11:10 am

Other thread maxed out.

Although spoilers are fine please use some descretion when discussing details of recent shows/movies. Use spoiler tags if necessary
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#2 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 14, 2019 1:01 pm

hege53190 wrote:Never saw any transformers after the first one because even though I loved everything Transformers as a kid it just wasn't my bag. So I can't comment on the quality of the movie. But they made one after age of extinction. It did $1.1 billion worldwide. I mean a 51% audience rating means it is a middling to bad movie. Which it probably is.

On the other hand a 91% rating means it is really good. Which TLJ definitely isn't. Audience score on rotten tomatoes is 10x better of a recommendation than critics score.

Are you watching a movie with a 51% audience score on rotten tomatoes?


You're talking about a metric that had to be changed this year because of bots and trolls review bombing movies without ever having seen it. It's a worthless stat.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#3 » by truly » Tue May 14, 2019 1:23 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
hege53190 wrote:Never saw any transformers after the first one because even though I loved everything Transformers as a kid it just wasn't my bag. So I can't comment on the quality of the movie. But they made one after age of extinction. It did $1.1 billion worldwide. I mean a 51% audience rating means it is a middling to bad movie. Which it probably is.

On the other hand a 91% rating means it is really good. Which TLJ definitely isn't. Audience score on rotten tomatoes is 10x better of a recommendation than critics score.

Are you watching a movie with a 51% audience score on rotten tomatoes?


You're talking about a metric that had to be changed this year because of bots and trolls review bombing movies without ever having seen it. It's a worthless stat.



BTW that is not entirely true.Captain Marvel did get review bombed but rotten tomatoes deleted only the overwhelmingly negative reviews.They did not delete every pre-release review.
You can as easily make a case that someone who gives a perfect score to that movie is trolling.Bots are available to companies too etc :wink:

The steam one in there is laughable.You are required to have a game before you can submit a review about it.


Edit:Also from my personal experience with movies and games,i find myself far closer to the audience score than the critics score.Unfortunately a lot of critics don't really rate a movie low/lower because they are afraid they will lose access to companies etc.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#4 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 14, 2019 1:29 pm

truly wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
hege53190 wrote:Never saw any transformers after the first one because even though I loved everything Transformers as a kid it just wasn't my bag. So I can't comment on the quality of the movie. But they made one after age of extinction. It did $1.1 billion worldwide. I mean a 51% audience rating means it is a middling to bad movie. Which it probably is.

On the other hand a 91% rating means it is really good. Which TLJ definitely isn't. Audience score on rotten tomatoes is 10x better of a recommendation than critics score.

Are you watching a movie with a 51% audience score on rotten tomatoes?


You're talking about a metric that had to be changed this year because of bots and trolls review bombing movies without ever having seen it. It's a worthless stat.



BTW that is not entirely true.Captain Marvel did get review bombed but rotten tomatoes deleted only the overwhelmingly negative reviews.They did not delete every pre-release review.
You can as easily make a case that someone who gives a perfect score to that movie is trolling.Bots are available to companies too etc :wink:

The steam one in there is laughable.You are required to have a game before you can submit a review about it.


Huh? Why should you allow reviews of people who don't own the game?
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#5 » by truly » Tue May 14, 2019 1:35 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
truly wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
You're talking about a metric that had to be changed this year because of bots and trolls review bombing movies without ever having seen it. It's a worthless stat.



BTW that is not entirely true.Captain Marvel did get review bombed but rotten tomatoes deleted only the overwhelmingly negative reviews.They did not delete every pre-release review.
You can as easily make a case that someone who gives a perfect score to that movie is trolling.Bots are available to companies too etc :wink:

The steam one in there is laughable.You are required to have a game before you can submit a review about it.


Huh? Why should you allow reviews of people who don't own the game?


No i agree with that.The article brings steam as an example of a site that did something similar to RT trying to tackle review bombing and i have no idea where that came from since you can't even review a game without owning it.

RT deleted negative reviews that were submitted before the movie was released.You can't do something similar with steam.That's my point.
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Did you really just post a lineup with the starting 2 guard being JR Smith?

Our actual management posted a lineup with the starting 2 guard being Tony Snell.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#6 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 14, 2019 1:38 pm

If RT wanted to make audience score with anything they would tie it to Fandango or something with verified purchases.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#7 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Tue May 14, 2019 1:39 pm

woah woah woah wait the **** a minute..... nobody liked solo and now there isn't a sequal or an obi wan or boba fett coming out?

that's annoying. people need to not be so butthurt over stuff like that. as far as im concerned they could make a 100 of these things. backstory chewie and yoda and whoever else you want. its never crossed my mind once that any one of the movies in this franchise was bad. all just fun fun fun fun...... amazing and cool and sometimes goofy and too similar but just a whole lot of fun in general
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#8 » by glenn » Tue May 14, 2019 1:42 pm

The steam example is relevant because it shows how users manipulate a score, making it not a true representation of how the general public feels about a game. The article contains a link describing how steam users tanked the score of a game in retaliation for one of the developers criticizing a popular streamer. It’s the same thing that people pull on RT, metacritic, etc.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#9 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 14, 2019 1:46 pm

glenn wrote:The steam example is relevant because it shows how users manipulate a score, making it not a true representation of how the general public feels about a game. The article contains a link describing how steam users tanked the score of a game in retaliation for one of the developers criticizing a popular streamer. It’s the same thing that people pull on RT, metacritic, etc.


Recent example came when Borderlands 3 was announced as an Epic store exclusive. The Borderlands series went from overwhelmingly positive to mostly negative almost immediately. Steam had to go in and clear it out over a span of weeks.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#10 » by Mags FTW » Tue May 14, 2019 1:47 pm

Rotten Tomatoes Says Its 55% 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Audience Score Is Authentic

Benson, who is the Vice President of Communications at Fandango, the parent company of Rotten Tomatoes, told me that Fandango and Rotten Tomatoes are fully confident in the ratings and scores for the Star Wars picture. She assured me that Rotten Tomatoes has gone to great lengths to verify their ratings’ accuracy and authenticity.

“We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” Benson said. “They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted. Aside from that, everything is normal and we don’t see any unusual activity. We looked at The Last Jedi compared to other blockbusters and it has been consistent with those past films.”


https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/20/rotten-tomatoes-confirms-its-55-last-jedi-audience-score-is-100-authentic/#1704b6434231

Also worth noting that Force Awakens has more user ratings than Last Jedi and is at 87%.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#11 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 14, 2019 1:53 pm



Hope this makes a star out of Florence Pugh.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#12 » by truly » Tue May 14, 2019 2:09 pm

glenn wrote:The steam example is relevant because it shows how users manipulate a score, making it not a true representation of how the general public feels about a game. The article contains a link describing how steam users tanked the score of a game in retaliation for one of the developers criticizing a popular streamer. It’s the same thing that people pull on RT, metacritic, etc.


So you aren't allowed to dislike a game because of it's developer?I have no problem with that especially since you need to have bought the game to review it.Nobody in their right mind buys i game just to review bomb it.This example has nothing to do with what happened at RT.

I have no idea why RT allows users to review a movie before it is released.

An interesting idea i have seen before was restricting the score a user could post if he was relatively new.You couldn't post an extreme score either way if you had a new account or low number of reviews.The more reviews you had the less the score restriction.
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Oscar71 wrote:
Did you really just post a lineup with the starting 2 guard being JR Smith?

Our actual management posted a lineup with the starting 2 guard being Tony Snell.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#13 » by HaroldinGMinor » Tue May 14, 2019 2:12 pm

truly wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
hege53190 wrote:Never saw any transformers after the first one because even though I loved everything Transformers as a kid it just wasn't my bag. So I can't comment on the quality of the movie. But they made one after age of extinction. It did $1.1 billion worldwide. I mean a 51% audience rating means it is a middling to bad movie. Which it probably is.

On the other hand a 91% rating means it is really good. Which TLJ definitely isn't. Audience score on rotten tomatoes is 10x better of a recommendation than critics score.

Are you watching a movie with a 51% audience score on rotten tomatoes?


You're talking about a metric that had to be changed this year because of bots and trolls review bombing movies without ever having seen it. It's a worthless stat.



BTW that is not entirely true.Captain Marvel did get review bombed but rotten tomatoes deleted only the overwhelmingly negative reviews.They did not delete every pre-release review.
You can as easily make a case that someone who gives a perfect score to that movie is trolling.Bots are available to companies too etc :wink:

The steam one in there is laughable.You are required to have a game before you can submit a review about it.


Edit:Also from my personal experience with movies and games,i find myself far closer to the audience score than the critics score.Unfortunately a lot of critics don't really rate a movie low/lower because they are afraid they will lose access to companies etc.


What access does a film and tv critic need? They just need to be able to watch the movie and or tv show.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#14 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 14, 2019 2:15 pm

truly wrote:
glenn wrote:The steam example is relevant because it shows how users manipulate a score, making it not a true representation of how the general public feels about a game. The article contains a link describing how steam users tanked the score of a game in retaliation for one of the developers criticizing a popular streamer. It’s the same thing that people pull on RT, metacritic, etc.


So you aren't allowed to dislike a game because of it's developer?I have no problem with that especially since you need to have bought the game to review it.Nobody in their right mind buys i game just to review bomb it.This example has nothing to do with what happened at RT.

I have no idea why RT allows users to review a movie before it is released.

An interesting idea i have seen before was restricting the score a user could post if he was relatively new.You couldn't post an extreme score either way if you had a new account or low number of reviews.The more reviews you had the less the score restriction.


See my note about Borderlands. What the hell does Borderlands 2 have to do with Borderlands 3 being an Epic store exclusive?
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#15 » by glenn » Tue May 14, 2019 2:39 pm

Mags FTW wrote:Rotten Tomatoes Says Its 55% 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Audience Score Is Authentic

Benson, who is the Vice President of Communications at Fandango, the parent company of Rotten Tomatoes, told me that Fandango and Rotten Tomatoes are fully confident in the ratings and scores for the Star Wars picture. She assured me that Rotten Tomatoes has gone to great lengths to verify their ratings’ accuracy and authenticity.

“We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” Benson said. “They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted. Aside from that, everything is normal and we don’t see any unusual activity. We looked at The Last Jedi compared to other blockbusters and it has been consistent with those past films.”


https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/20/rotten-tomatoes-confirms-its-55-last-jedi-audience-score-is-100-authentic/#1704b6434231

Also worth noting that Force Awakens has more user ratings than Last Jedi and is at 87%.

Audience reviews are an example of a self selecting sample and not a representation of the opinion of a diverse population. I don't think anyone would disagree that there was a large selection of people that had a strong negative reaction to the movie. Even if there were no bots or repeat reviews (which would be extremely hard to prove), these scores are more of a curiosity than sound statistical data since it mostly represents people like you, who are passionate in letting people know that you didn't like the movie. Also, it's funny to see a VP from fandango defending their scores when they have been known to game the star rating on their app.

This article from deadline touches on more scientific audience satisfaction measuring. TLJ received an A CinemaScore, same as TFA and Rogue One, and an 89% positive score from ComScore (TFA had a 90%). So people liked it. This doesn't mean that you or anyone else has to, but it's true that a lot of people did.

One last thing. I think that someone in the last thread posted a link to the box office returns of the Star Wars movies as proof that people didn't like TLJ. One thing I noticed is that Empire only made about 68% of what the original made, and I wouldn't use that as a comment on its quality. It came out before I was born, but I would bet that it was divisive in its own right back in the days before the internet. I'm sure the Mr Plinkett review would have been wonderful, though.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#16 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 14, 2019 2:43 pm

glenn wrote:I'm sure the Mr Plinkett review would have been wonderful, though.


Legit LOL.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#17 » by Mags FTW » Tue May 14, 2019 3:20 pm

glenn wrote:One last thing. I think that someone in the last thread posted a link to the box office returns of the Star Wars movies as proof that people didn't like TLJ. One thing I noticed is that Empire only made about 68% of what the original made, and I wouldn't use that as a comment on its quality.


Star Wars was more of a spectacle than ESB. It had revolutionary special effects along with set, character, and costume design unlike anything ever done before. People wanted to see it again and again because they had never seen anything like it.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#18 » by glenn » Tue May 14, 2019 3:22 pm

HaroldinGMinor wrote:
Spoiler:
truly wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
You're talking about a metric that had to be changed this year because of bots and trolls review bombing movies without ever having seen it. It's a worthless stat.



BTW that is not entirely true.Captain Marvel did get review bombed but rotten tomatoes deleted only the overwhelmingly negative reviews.They did not delete every pre-release review.
You can as easily make a case that someone who gives a perfect score to that movie is trolling.Bots are available to companies too etc :wink:

The steam one in there is laughable.You are required to have a game before you can submit a review about it.


Edit:Also from my personal experience with movies and games,i find myself far closer to the audience score than the critics score.Unfortunately a lot of critics don't really rate a movie low/lower because they are afraid they will lose access to companies etc.
What access does a film and tv critic need? They just need to be able to watch the movie and or tv show.

I don't agree with truly's take here, but this reminds me of something I read once about the lavish screenings that studios will hold for low level critics where they feed them, entertain them, and hype them up before sending them into the movie primed to enjoy it. I'm not sure how much of this goes on now, but I still tend to be skeptical of certain groups of critics, especially the ones that write for sites focusing on fan hype (io9/AICN for example). For me, the best way to handle critics is to find a few that you trust, so even when you don't always agree with their reviews you can respect where they are coming from and use it to engage what you watch on a deeper level.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#19 » by emunney » Tue May 14, 2019 3:53 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
glenn wrote:I'm sure the Mr Plinkett review would have been wonderful, though.


Legit LOL.


Those guys add a lot of value in terms of dragging the trash bins for hilarious stuff, but their reviews are extremely basic. Surviving Edged Weapons is a genuine treasure. That's their wheelhouse.
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Re: OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers) 

Post#20 » by livestrong4ever » Tue May 14, 2019 4:07 pm

not a GoT fan at all- sorry sci-fi fans. But I have been watching Chernobyl it is one of my favorite series of the year thus far. I have been listening to their podcast as well.
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