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Giannis Thread - Drafted 7 Years ago 6/27/13 - Page 84

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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1601 » by BroncoBuck » Sun May 10, 2020 1:28 am

MVP2110 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Called this after all the **** came out about him. He wasn’t a good recruit to begin with, that’s a lot of baggage to take on. Best of luck to the kid
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1602 » by Beorn » Sun May 10, 2020 8:09 am

Τhe good greek teams will be interested, but he should be prepared to spend a year not playing at all or just playing in the A2 division with Olympiakos' youth team.
Ηis best-case scenario would be to sign with a **** ACB team that signs and develops youngsters like Obradoiro/Fuenlabrada, or if he's too raw even for that, he should head to Lithuania and play for a team like Nevezys that also specializes in this type of stuff
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1603 » by SkilesTheLimit » Sun May 10, 2020 1:25 pm

BroncoBuck wrote:
MVP2110 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Called this after all the **** came out about him. He wasn’t a good recruit to begin with, that’s a lot of baggage to take on. Best of luck to the kid


Entitled + Cocky + Not very good = terrible formula for success

He's destined to always be the "brother of Giannis."
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1604 » by StickeeFingaz » Sun May 10, 2020 3:06 pm

Chris Mannix wrote that his outlandish prediction is that the Bucks trade Giannis to Toronto this summer to pair him up with Pascal. How on earth are the Raptors trading for Giannis and not giving up Pascal? How do national writers come up with this ****?
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1605 » by German Athens » Sun May 10, 2020 4:26 pm

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/where-giannis-antetokounmpos-game-goes-from-here/

I'm ultimately A Giannis fan boy like so many of us, but I think I get to sensitive to criticism going his way. Especially as criticism has morphed over time. The goal posts with which to view his career have moved time and again, and, frankly, the fact this article primarily compares him to the shadows of Lebron and Jordan should be seen as the utmost form of respect. This is considering at first the comparisons were to Josh Smith, then moved over to AK-47, transitioned to a KG or Scottie Pippen Lite, eventually he started to become his own thing with some comparisons to Shaq or Wilt. The idea for peak him was a top 30 player, an all star, and then that started to shift as well; our optimism led us to wonder about top 10, top 5, best in the world, and pretty soon just how high on the pantheon of greats he could climb. I've found with his continued success I've struggled, surprisingly, with these goalposts being moved time and again. I now want him to surpass all of it. In part for the validation of being able to say I watched the best basketball player of all time play for the Milwaukee bucks, but also in part for the naive belief that there would be a sense of relief to knowing he was the greatest ever, that it would be so clear that no debate would even be needed anymore. I guess I'm the insecure Kevin Durant of Giannis fandom.

I think this article is interesting and stresses many of our concerns over Giannis' game. I do, however, find myself getting combative to certain language used and to certain notions of his success. For instance,

"We've watched James drag teams to the Finals with teammates like Boobie Gibson and Ante Zizic, so to see Giannis fail to lead Greece to FIBA success, on the heels of the Bucks being ousted by the Raptors in embarrassing fashion last postseason, at least suggests that he's more of a product of system and situation than LeBron or, in the past, Michael Jordan. You put either of those guys on any team in the NBA, or any national squad, and they're an immediate title contender. With Giannis, we're not quite sure yet."

"The Bucks are doing the same thing. There is no doubt that Giannis, even if he doesn't make one more ounce of improvement, can lead a team to a championship. He's a superstar. But he's what I tend to think of as a circumstantial superstar. If the personnel around him is appropriately tailored, if the pace and dynamics of a game and/or series are fast and full-court, he's unstoppable."

I think there is some merit here, we're accustomed to seeing greatness from Lebron and, before him, Michael, and Giannis hasn't developed a complete game, yet. He's not as good as them yet and wondering if he'll ever be is fine. I do think, however, that the notion of Lebron or Michael going to any team in the league and immediately making them title contenders is over blown. I think we often romanticize the notion of one's success once they've had success regardless of their situations. Lebron didn't get over the top until he had multiple all star teammates; Michael didn't get over the top until scottie was an all-star and high impact player. They mention Giannis as a circumstantial superstar - that a team and system has to be tailored to him to succeed. They seem to mostly point to system in order to succeed, but seem to overlook overwhelming talent. Lebron didn't win it all until he got to Miami. They didn't have a perfect system around him, so in this sense I would assume the authors would say that he wasn't circumstantial, but that team did have more top end talent than just about any team in modern NBA history. Doesn't that seem circumstantial to a degree? Lebron didn't win it all until he was with two other top 10 scorers in the league, and one of whom was an MVP candidate and former champion. Michael didn't get over the hump until Pippen and them were ready, but Pippen was one of the greatest players in the game, at least he would be seen as such in short order. Lebron and the Lakers pre-Lebron's injury were not title contenders last year. Jordan was only ever with the loaded Bulls (and White Sox) during his prime.

The article mentions that Giannis needs some counters offensively for the Playoffs. I fully agree. He's a dominant offensive player that often has success through sheer will and physical dominance. That sounds a lot like Shaq, though, doesn't it? Would these authors call Shaq a circumstantial superstar? I would think they would see that he won multiple titles, and won them in different environments - ignoring that his team was first a contender when he had a healthy Penny Hardaway with him, then later had Kobe, and finished his dominant success with D-wade. Those three players were some of the best in the league, and were players that complemented shaq by commanding their own in the playoffs.

I won't go to far into the defensive impact of Giannis and how these discussions often leave that out. That when he's not having a great offensive game, like game three against the raptors last year, he's playing some of the best defense on the planet.

The Bucks and Giannis last year could have won it all with a better and more polished Giannis. He wasn't having some all-timer post season, and he needs to improve offensively in close games. The points this article makes are largely valid, but I wonder how much of non-circumstantial superstar's success in their eyes is already due to them being in great situations/circumstances the authors are unwilling to acknowledge.

Here's to hoping the Bucks can play again and win it all with a further improved Giannis.

End Rant
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1606 » by chonestown » Sun May 10, 2020 5:55 pm

I'm old enough to remember when Jordan was a hollow stats superstar doomed to a career of meaningless scoring titles and pre-May playoff exits. Writers fall back on tropes because it's easy, despite history - REALLY RECENT HISTORY - showing the folly of trotting out those shopworn narratives. Bet against Giannis at your own peril.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1607 » by truly » Sun May 10, 2020 7:14 pm

StickeeFingaz wrote:Chris Mannix wrote that his outlandish prediction is that the Bucks trade Giannis to Toronto this summer to pair him up with Pascal. How on earth are the Raptors trading for Giannis and not giving up Pascal? How do national writers come up with this ****?


There is nothing outlandish about it once you realize his goal is to get clicks,and there is nobody more delusional to believe this than raptors fans.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1608 » by LedZepp007 » Tue May 12, 2020 7:10 pm

ESPN just ranked Giannis as the #27 NBA player of all time.


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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1609 » by jschligs » Tue May 12, 2020 7:45 pm

truly wrote:
StickeeFingaz wrote:Chris Mannix wrote that his outlandish prediction is that the Bucks trade Giannis to Toronto this summer to pair him up with Pascal. How on earth are the Raptors trading for Giannis and not giving up Pascal? How do national writers come up with this ****?


There is nothing outlandish about it once you realize his goal is to get clicks,and there is nobody more delusional to believe this than raptors fans.


Yea, writers don't write to be factual/accurate/correct or even close to what they truly believe. They do it for clicks. End of story.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1610 » by blazza18 » Tue May 12, 2020 9:35 pm

LedZepp007 wrote:ESPN just ranked Giannis as the #27 NBA player of all time.


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Probably a little too high atm but 2-time MVP at the age of 25 is a pretty big deal.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1611 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 12, 2020 10:01 pm

blazza18 wrote:
LedZepp007 wrote:ESPN just ranked Giannis as the #27 NBA player of all time.


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Probably a little too high atm but 2-time MVP at the age of 25 is a pretty big deal.


Am I weird that I think longevity is overrated in these discussions?

For example, how long did it take others around here to recognize LeBron as one of the very best players in the history of the league? Like, did it take him winning a title? Because it was maybe his second year (if that) for me to think, "Oh, that dude is better than Magic Johnson ever was. It's this guy and Jordan." If he never won a ring because it's a team sport and nobody does it without help, does it actually make him any less a player?
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1612 » by Milbucks96 » Tue May 12, 2020 10:05 pm

blazza18 wrote:
LedZepp007 wrote:ESPN just ranked Giannis as the #27 NBA player of all time.


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Probably a little too high atm but 2-time MVP at the age of 25 is a pretty big deal.

It’s so hard to rank in prime players. Guys like LeBron and cp3 are easy but Giannis is too hard to rate even though I somewhat agree with them.


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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1613 » by blazza18 » Tue May 12, 2020 11:02 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:Am I weird that I think longevity is overrated in these discussions?


I think when you're ranking players against their piers then longevity of the players peak and team success should matter.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1614 » by ReasonablySober » Tue May 12, 2020 11:09 pm

blazza18 wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:Am I weird that I think longevity is overrated in these discussions?


I think when you're ranking players against their piers then longevity of the players peak and team success should matter.


I think it should matter some, I guess? but not nearly as much as it seems like ESPN does. Like, Oscar isn't touching my top 50.



GTFO with this clown ****.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1615 » by blazza18 » Tue May 12, 2020 11:13 pm

Yea, ranking players from the different eras makes it tough.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1616 » by machu46 » Wed May 13, 2020 11:35 am

I don't know what I would consider to be a realistic ranking of Giannis right now, but after this season he'll most likely be one of 14 players to ever win multiple MVPs and he's managed to do that in 7 seasons. Also has a good chance of becoming one of 5 players to ever win MVP and DPOY, and the 3rd to do it in the same season. Add in the fact that he's having one of the best seasons of all-time and you have a very strong argument for the people that favor peak performance over longevity.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1617 » by Ron Swanson » Wed May 13, 2020 1:36 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
blazza18 wrote:
LedZepp007 wrote:ESPN just ranked Giannis as the #27 NBA player of all time.


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Probably a little too high atm but 2-time MVP at the age of 25 is a pretty big deal.


Am I weird that I think longevity is overrated in these discussions?



No, because it is.

I ain't defending you on your Oscar take though lol.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1618 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed May 13, 2020 1:44 pm

machu46 wrote:I don't know what I would consider to be a realistic ranking of Giannis right now, but after this season he'll most likely be one of 14 players to ever win multiple MVPs and he's managed to do that in 7 seasons. Also has a good chance of becoming one of 5 players to ever win MVP and DPOY, and the 3rd to do it in the same season. Add in the fact that he's having one of the best seasons of all-time and you have a very strong argument for the people that favor peak performance over longevity.

Yeah the 2 MVP thing is huge to me. He just needs a ring and FMVP and no one can argue he isn't top 25.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1619 » by Ron Swanson » Wed May 13, 2020 2:07 pm

They take expected trajectory into account with these things as well. And let's be honest, barring a career altering injury, Giannis is gonna be universally recognized as a Top-20ish player of all-time. He's arguably already had two Top-10 regular seasons ever at 25 years old. The real question for me is whether or not he'll be challenging for a Top-15 or even Top-10 spot when it's all done.
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Re: Giannis Thread - Full Practice & Scrimmage Wednesday - Still Uncertain for Thursday 

Post#1620 » by buckboy » Wed May 13, 2020 3:10 pm

LOL @ Oscar not being top 50.
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