RealGM

Saying he wants to build a championship here and saying yes I am signing an extension are completely different things.

MickeyDavis wrote:Saying he wants to build a championship here and saying yes I am signing an extension are completely different things.

Correct - though his words were more encouraging than I could have expected.

But if the Bucks can't make some nice moves, we can't expect Giannis to stay. The roster needs a lot of improvements.

Giannis just watched this team play better in the 6-7 quarters he was sidelined than in any of the games where he was playing. So in regards to all this talk about him potentially leaving, I would be pretty disappointed in him if he's got it in his head that his poor play before his injury wasn't a major or even the primary reason why we lost this series. He's never struck me as the kind of person to blame his struggles on others.

Ron Swanson wrote:Giannis just watched this team play better in the 6-7 quarters he was sidelined than in any of the games where he was playing. So in regards to all this talk about him potentially leaving, I would be pretty disappointed in him if he's got it in his head that his poor play before his injury wasn't a major or even the primary reason why we lost this series. He's never struck me as the kind of person to blame his struggles on others.

I think it's obvious that the Bucks didn't have the backcourt play needed to win the series. It certainly wasn't Giannis' fault that the Bucks lost.

Ron Swanson wrote:Giannis just watched this team play better in the 6-7 quarters he was sidelined than in any of the games where he was playing. So in regards to all this talk about him potentially leaving, I would be pretty disappointed in him if he's got it in his head that his poor play before his injury wasn't a major or even the primary reason why we lost this series. He's never struck me as the kind of person to blame his struggles on others.

Same. I'm ready to forgive anything except bolting from his own responsibilities, he simply hasn't finished what he started. He never got to the point where he can say with a straight face that he was his best self when it mattered most and the team failed him.

But I have no reason to believe that he's not the person he always claimed to be. That's why I always thought people have it backwards: I believe the more he fails with the Bucks the more stubborn he will get, the more he will want to try again.
Not the opposite, which seems to be the mainstream narrative.

But it's hard to really know somebody, we'll see.

Ruzious wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:Giannis just watched this team play better in the 6-7 quarters he was sidelined than in any of the games where he was playing. So in regards to all this talk about him potentially leaving, I would be pretty disappointed in him if he's got it in his head that his poor play before his injury wasn't a major or even the primary reason why we lost this series. He's never struck me as the kind of person to blame his struggles on others.

I think it's obvious that the Bucks didn't have the backcourt play needed to win the series. It certainly wasn't Giannis' fault that the Bucks lost.

C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

Ron Swanson wrote:

Ruzious wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:Giannis just watched this team play better in the 6-7 quarters he was sidelined than in any of the games where he was playing. So in regards to all this talk about him potentially leaving, I would be pretty disappointed in him if he's got it in his head that his poor play before his injury wasn't a major or even the primary reason why we lost this series. He's never struck me as the kind of person to blame his struggles on others.

I think it's obvious that the Bucks didn't have the backcourt play needed to win the series. It certainly wasn't Giannis' fault that the Bucks lost.

C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

MickeyDavis wrote:

HKPackFan wrote:Ok so we don't know the date the off-season begins and when the bucks can offer the supermax?

That's all up in the air right now.

There's nothing theoretically preventing Giannis from leaking that he'll sign the supermax ala what Donovan Mitchell did though right?

I don't really think he'll sign it anyways, but just confirming that he could theoretically tell us he will if he wanted to.

machu46 wrote:

MickeyDavis wrote:

HKPackFan wrote:Ok so we don't know the date the off-season begins and when the bucks can offer the supermax?

That's all up in the air right now.

There's nothing theoretically preventing Giannis from leaking that he'll sign the supermax ala what Donovan Mitchell did though right?

I don't really think he'll sign it anyways, but just confirming that he could theoretically tell us he will if he wanted to.

Absolutely he could say he plans to sign the max.

Ruzious wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:

Ruzious wrote:I think it's obvious that the Bucks didn't have the backcourt play needed to win the series. It certainly wasn't Giannis' fault that the Bucks lost.

C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

Did Michael Jordan ever lay an egg in his prime like Giannis did in this series? Let's stop comparing him to Lebron and Jordan until he actually puts up a monster series performance in a losing effort where we can actually blame the supporting cast for letting him down. Love the guy and I'm still convinced he's gonna stick with the organization, but he's at the point of his career where he's not super young anymore and he needs to start playing better in big postseason series.

Ron Swanson wrote:

Ruzious wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:
C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

Did Michael Jordan ever lay an egg in his prime like Giannis did in this series? Let's stop comparing him to Lebron and Jordan until he actually puts up a monster series performance in a losing effort where we can actually blame the supporting cast for letting him down. Love the guy and I'm still convinced he's gonna stick with the organization, but he's at the point of his career where he's not super young anymore and he needs to start playing better in big postseason series.

People blamed him for losing year after year to Detroit and said he hurt the team or couldn't win in the playoffs.

And I don't buy into your point that Giannis laid an egg.

You don't "buy" that Giannis played like absolute crap in this series? I don't even know how to respond to that, so better to just move on.

Ron Swanson wrote:You don't "buy" that Giannis played like absolute crap in this series? I don't even know how to respond to that, so better to just move on.

Correct. It's absurd to blame the series loss on Giannis. The Bucks lost because they had an inferior backcourt and relied far too much on past their prime veterans.

Giannis went 4-12 from the line in game 1 and 0-7 from 3 in Game 3. He was never the best player in any of his 3 games IMO. We need more from him to win a championship. I think that is a fair assessment.

Certainly not all his fault, but he didn't rise to the situation.

Not absurd in the slightest to acknowledge reality when your superstar has a bad series and not completely absolve him of any responsibility in said series loss. I'm absolutely dumbfounded by your position on this.

Ron Swanson wrote:

Ruzious wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:Giannis just watched this team play better in the 6-7 quarters he was sidelined than in any of the games where he was playing. So in regards to all this talk about him potentially leaving, I would be pretty disappointed in him if he's got it in his head that his poor play before his injury wasn't a major or even the primary reason why we lost this series. He's never struck me as the kind of person to blame his struggles on others.

I think it's obvious that the Bucks didn't have the backcourt play needed to win the series. It certainly wasn't Giannis' fault that the Bucks lost.

C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

I mean it's gotta be both right? I think we can clearly point to our guards poor play and say that's an area we have to improve as well as pointing to our superstar and say he didn't play like a superstar.

I feel as though much of what giannis does on offense when he scores falls outside of an actual offense. It's him in transition, iso's from the top, iso's in the wings, putbacks. We don't really have actions where giannis plays within an offense. That's gotta be on both the coaches and giannis, and especially on giannis' lack of offensive skill and IQ. We, as an offense, don't have any looks where you feel confident enough that if it was there the whole game we could go to it time and again. Nothing we do on offense is easy. When giannis scores, it can often be a miraculous individual play, but i don't think it leaves the defense befuddled. I think a lot of those looks could be more easily generated with a point guard like CP3 - someone that demands attention in his own right, is special in the pick n roll, and has a very steadying influence on the offenses he's run.

Ron Swanson wrote:Not absurd in the slightest to acknowledge reality when your superstar has a bad series and not completely absolve him of any responsibility in said series loss. I'm absolutely dumbfounded by your position on this.

Yes, you are. Nice to see you've moved on.

Can someone who is smarter than me lay out the contract extension options for Giannis this offseason?

German Athens wrote:

Ron Swanson wrote:

Ruzious wrote:I think it's obvious that the Bucks didn't have the backcourt play needed to win the series. It certainly wasn't Giannis' fault that the Bucks lost.

C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

I mean it's gotta be both right? I think we can clearly point to our guards poor play and say that's an area we have to improve as well as pointing to our superstar and say he didn't play like a superstar.

I feel as though much of what giannis does on offense when he scores falls outside of an actual offense. It's him in transition, iso's from the top, iso's in the wings, putbacks. We don't really have actions where giannis plays within an offense. That's gotta be on both the coaches and giannis, and especially on giannis' lack of offensive skill and IQ. We, as an offense, don't have any looks where you feel confident enough that if it was there the whole game we could go to it time and again. Nothing we do on offense is easy. When giannis scores, it can often be a miraculous individual play, but i don't think it leaves the defense befuddled. I think a lot of those looks could be more easily generated with a point guard like CP3 - someone that demands attention in his own right, is special in the pick n roll, and has a very steadying influence on the offenses he's run.

Yes, you don't lose in 5-games without there being multiple issues. Bledsoe being a mental midget and the lack of off-the-dribble shooting outside of Middleton to name a few major ones. But way too many people refuse to dole out criticism of Giannis where it's warranted and ignoring that him shrinking in these series (Toronto and now this) makes it hard to properly evaluate this team going forward. I don't buy that this team is somehow incapable of winning a championship, whereas I'd feel much more comfortable in saying so had Giannis elevated his game, or hell, even just played up to his normal standards, and we still lost. Because identifying the problems are going to have lasting consequences (tweaks vs. complete overhaul), and it just becomes muddied if we can't even agree that Giannis' exploitable weaknesses have been a major part of the problem. It just depends on whether or not you have faith in him eventually corrected those weaknesses enough.

Giannis didn't play up to his usual standards, but I don't think he was bad or "laid an egg" by any means. In the three losses he shot 45%, and went for 23/13/7. He was on his way to a monster game four. I blame Bud for not putting Giannis in a position to succeed.