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Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88

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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1941 » by Ruzious » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:23 pm

PG Graveyard wrote:Can someone who is smarter than me lay out the contract extension options for Giannis this offseason?

He'll get the "supermax" (30% of the team cap) which is expected to be 247.3 mil over 5 seasons (42.6 mil, then 46.0, 49.5, 52.9, and 56.3). Normally, you need 10 years of experience to get the supermax, but when he made All-NBA 1st team twice in a row, that qualified him for the supermax.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1942 » by PG Graveyard » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:25 pm

Ruzious wrote:
PG Graveyard wrote:Can someone who is smarter than me lay out the contract extension options for Giannis this offseason?

He'll get the "supermax" (30% of the team cap) which is expected to be 247.3 mil over 5 seasons (42.6 mil, then 46.0, 49.5, 52.9, and 56.3). Normally, you need 10 years of experience to get the supermax, but when he made All-NBA 1st team twice in a row, that qualified him for the supermax.


Does he have other extension options? Does the super max have to be 5 years or can he sign 4/option?

I have had trouble finding the exact options he has anywhere.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1943 » by jerrod » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:36 pm

That wall quote is absolute genius. Love it!
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1944 » by MiltownHawkeye » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:37 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I think it's obvious that the Bucks didn't have the backcourt play needed to win the series. It certainly wasn't Giannis' fault that the Bucks lost.


C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

Michael Jordan averaged 36/7/7 in the playoffs up until the year he won his first ring.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1945 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:41 pm

MiltownHawkeye wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

Michael Jordan averaged 36/7/7 in the playoffs up until the year he won his first ring.


He also never averaged less than 42 minutes per game to get those numbers.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1946 » by German Athens » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:45 pm

[/quote]

Yes, you don't lose in 5-games without there being multiple issues. Bledsoe being a mental midget and the lack of off-the-dribble shooting outside of Middleton to name a few major ones. But way too many people refuse to dole out criticism of Giannis where it's warranted and ignoring that him shrinking in these series (Toronto and now this) makes it hard to properly evaluate this team going forward. I don't buy that this team is somehow incapable of winning a championship, whereas I'd feel much more comfortable in saying so had Giannis elevated his game, or hell, even just played up to his normal standards, and we still lost. Because identifying the problems are going to have lasting consequences (tweaks vs. complete overhaul), and it just becomes muddied if we can't even agree that Giannis' exploitable weaknesses have been a major part of the problem. It just depends on whether or not you have faith in him eventually corrected those weaknesses enough.[/quote]


Yeah, I certainly think he's still capable of being the best player on a championship team. I'm just finding it less and less likely that it would happen in Milwaukee. I think the biggest thing for Giannis might not even be skill development, but really just emphasizing different things and demanding a different play style. I think the most likely way that happens is if he plays with a championship coach or other great players that demand respect for what they've achieved in the playoffs.

AS for the Jordan and lebron comparisons. I don't think Giannis is the type of player that can elevate his scoring with a lack of talent like those two have done throughout their careers. When we throw nobodies out there, I dont' think to myself that giannis is definitely going to put up 40. With that said, I do think that if you surround him with the right complementary players and coaches he can be just as good as those two at their best. He's not as complete of a player as those two, and saying "Lebron wasn't .... when he was in cleveland the first time" I think misses much of the nuance between the two. Lebron was still a much more skilled offensive player than giannis when he was in Cleveland the first time. Even with Giannis' lack of skill, there is still a way to dominate the playoffs IMO - he's not as adaptable as those two - but, i still think it's possible.

I think demanding he set actual screens and not leaving too soon to get to the hoop would go a long way for his effectiveness in the post season. I also think taking the ball out of his hands, and demanding he play off ball more often would be good. Have him set pin down screens, and then quick turn into post position. Have him be the screener in pick and rolls. Have him play at the free throw line, where you actually feel a little better about his jumper there. Work on getting deep post position, and actually get a guy who can make that entry pass. Work on him coming right up into an offensive move as soon as he gets the ball. Get him to make cuts after he shows hard. I really don't think those are skill developments, maybe it's IQ development, but I think if you told him he has to set a screen - he would be able to do that.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1947 » by ackypoo » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:46 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
MiltownHawkeye wrote:
Ruzious wrote:This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

Michael Jordan averaged 36/7/7 in the playoffs up until the year he won his first ring.


He also never averaged less than 42 minutes per game to get those numbers.

they also didnt allow zones
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1948 » by MiltownHawkeye » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:46 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
MiltownHawkeye wrote:
Ruzious wrote:This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

Michael Jordan averaged 36/7/7 in the playoffs up until the year he won his first ring.


He also never averaged less than 42 minutes per game to get those numbers.

Michael Jordan averaged 30/6/6 per 36 in the playoffs up until the year he won his first ring.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1949 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:48 pm

ackypoo wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
MiltownHawkeye wrote:Michael Jordan averaged 36/7/7 in the playoffs up until the year he won his first ring.


He also never averaged less than 42 minutes per game to get those numbers.

they also didnt allow zones


Bingo.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1950 » by Willie Colon » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:49 pm

The comparison to Jordan is ludicrous. The circumstances aren't the least bit similar.

Giannis, for the most part, has always put up monster numbers in the playoffs, but he's shown time and again that he's not cut out to be a finisher against tough competition. Butler humiliated him even more than Kawhi did last year.

We desperately need someone who can fill that role at the end of games. Middleton isn't the answer either.
We have Giannis Antetokounmpo and you don't. :naaa:
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1951 » by Ruzious » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:55 pm

MiltownHawkeye wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
C'mon, we can't keep doing this with him.

This is sounding a lot like what people said about Michael Jordan when the Bulls lost year after year in the playoffs.

Michael Jordan averaged 36/7/7 in the playoffs up until the year he won his first ring.

That's Mike's 89-90 season when he was 27. He did that in 42.1 minutes a game.

Giannis' playoff numbers this year were in 30.8 minutes a game (about 3/4's of what Mike played): 26.7/13.8/5.7.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1952 » by MiltownHawkeye » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:56 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
ackypoo wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:
He also never averaged less than 42 minutes per game to get those numbers.

they also didnt allow zones


Bingo.

This doesn't change the fact that Jordan maintained his regular season production (or better) in the playoffs during his first 6 seasons. You can't say the same about Giannis.

Sure, you can make the vague statement "both players received criticism for not taking their teams to the Finals" about both Jordan and Giannis but that's about the only similarity.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1953 » by machu46 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:13 pm

PG Graveyard wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
PG Graveyard wrote:Can someone who is smarter than me lay out the contract extension options for Giannis this offseason?

He'll get the "supermax" (30% of the team cap) which is expected to be 247.3 mil over 5 seasons (42.6 mil, then 46.0, 49.5, 52.9, and 56.3). Normally, you need 10 years of experience to get the supermax, but when he made All-NBA 1st team twice in a row, that qualified him for the supermax.


Does he have other extension options? Does the super max have to be 5 years or can he sign 4/option?

I have had trouble finding the exact options he has anywhere.


A supermax must be 5 years, which is why I tend to think he won't agree to sign the supermax.

His options this offseason are:

1. Supermax: 5 years/$224 million
2. A short-term deal to keep pressure on Bucks front office/maintain flexibility: 2 years/$67 million + options or whatever he wants
3. Play out his deal and choose one of these options after he's met with other teams, or sign with another team (other teams could offer a max of 4 years/$141 million)
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1954 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:16 pm

I love the "he's not Jordan" argument. The fact that we are even having these discussions are crazy. Like he is legitimately a Top 10-15 player of all-time and we are disappointed he isn't better.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1955 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:20 pm

machu46 wrote:
PG Graveyard wrote:
Ruzious wrote:He'll get the "supermax" (30% of the team cap) which is expected to be 247.3 mil over 5 seasons (42.6 mil, then 46.0, 49.5, 52.9, and 56.3). Normally, you need 10 years of experience to get the supermax, but when he made All-NBA 1st team twice in a row, that qualified him for the supermax.


Does he have other extension options? Does the super max have to be 5 years or can he sign 4/option?

I have had trouble finding the exact options he has anywhere.


A supermax must be 5 years, which is why I tend to think he won't agree to sign the supermax.

His options this offseason are:

1. Supermax: 5 years/$224 million
2. A short-term deal to keep pressure on Bucks front office/maintain flexibility: 2 years/$67 million + options or whatever he wants
3. Play out his deal and choose one of these options after he's met with other teams, or sign with another team (other teams could offer a max of 4 years/$141 million)

For short-term deals, is there any advantage to signing with the Bucks? Like 12.5% raise versus 10%, higher starting point, etc.

Makes me nervous if Milwaukee being his home and most money isn't automatically enough. Dont really blame the guy if he leaves. He's literally probably one of 5 people in the organization still here since he was drafted - New coaches, front office, owners, players Hell even new attendants where the arena changed. Media will be harder on him losing in Milwaukee than it would be if he teamed up with someone in a different location.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1956 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:28 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:I love the "he's not Jordan" argument. The fact that we are even having these discussions are crazy. Like he is legitimately a Top 10-15 player of all-time and we are disappointed he isn't better.


Seriously. And I know this isn't going to make people happy, because apparently they now want/expect him to be Michael Jordan, but as I've mentioned multiple times over the last five or so seasons, I don't believe Giannis is ever going to have a consistent jump shot or free throw stroke. WHICH IS FINE. He still dominates the game on both ends. And will go down as an all-time great. He's the least of our problems. Now its the organization's responsibility to fill the roster with complimentary players and a coach willing/able to make adjustments in the playoffs. The returns on this, so far, aren't great.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1957 » by machu46 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:33 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
machu46 wrote:
PG Graveyard wrote:
Does he have other extension options? Does the super max have to be 5 years or can he sign 4/option?

I have had trouble finding the exact options he has anywhere.


A supermax must be 5 years, which is why I tend to think he won't agree to sign the supermax.

His options this offseason are:

1. Supermax: 5 years/$224 million
2. A short-term deal to keep pressure on Bucks front office/maintain flexibility: 2 years/$67 million + options or whatever he wants
3. Play out his deal and choose one of these options after he's met with other teams, or sign with another team (other teams could offer a max of 4 years/$141 million)

For short-term deals, is there any advantage to signing with the Bucks? Like 12.5% raise versus 10%, higher starting point, etc.

Makes me nervous if Milwaukee being his home and most money isn't automatically enough. Dont really blame the guy if he leaves. He's literally probably one of 5 people in the organization still here since he was drafted - New coaches, front office, owners, players Hell even new attendants where the arena changed. Media will be harder on him losing in Milwaukee than it would be if he teamed up with someone in a different location.


I don't believe so but I'm not a cap expert; just going off of bits and pieces of what I've read from some different articles.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1958 » by Prez » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:35 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:You don't "buy" that Giannis played like absolute crap in this series? I don't even know how to respond to that, so better to just move on.

Correct. It's absurd to blame the series loss on Giannis. The Bucks lost because they had an inferior backcourt and relied far too much on past their prime veterans.

Who is blaming the series entirely on Giannis? I don't think anyone is disputing that the backcourt sucked, coaching sucked, and there were a lot of other factors leading to the loss. But Giannis dramatically underperforming relative to his regular season play is one of them. In the 3 straight games to go down 0-3 he put up 22.7 on 45/15/54 shooting, that's awful by his standards tbh. If he even just slightly underperforms we're probably up 2-1 after 3 games.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1959 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:44 pm

Prez wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:You don't "buy" that Giannis played like absolute crap in this series? I don't even know how to respond to that, so better to just move on.

Correct. It's absurd to blame the series loss on Giannis. The Bucks lost because they had an inferior backcourt and relied far too much on past their prime veterans.

Who is blaming the series entirely on Giannis? I don't think anyone is disputing that the backcourt sucked, coaching sucked, and there were a lot of other factors leading to the loss. But Giannis dramatically underperforming relative to his regular season play is one of them. In the 3 straight games to go down 0-3 he put up 22.7 on 45/15/54 shooting, that's awful by his standards tbh. If he even just slightly underperforms we're probably up 2-1 after 3 games.

Yeah, this wasn't last year where his numbers went down but were great overall. There were legit times he was a negative on the court.
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Re: Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88 

Post#1960 » by Wooderson » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:22 pm

Giannis obviously could have been better; more under control, better shot selection, and making FTs. But there are systemetic issues he's being asked to overcome. It's a problem if we need Giannis to be MVP level with those issues, just to not go down 0-3 in the second round. Especially given he's "only" making $26M this year.

The Bucks made an extreme miscalculation with Bledsoe, in terms of what Giannis and the team needs.

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