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Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract

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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#621 » by smauss » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:22 pm

I'm not nearly as concerned about his scoring. I'm much more concerned him thinking he's Curly Neal. He needs to cut hid TO's down, and make better bball decisions.

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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#622 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:37 pm

Feel like his game is gonna get better with age.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#623 » by DrWood » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:48 pm

crkone wrote:Sweats too much for my liking = Not in shape.

doesn't sweat enough. Not maximum effort.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#624 » by skones » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:52 pm

I fully expect Middleton to be better this season with more offensive opportunity and more comfort in Bud's system. I DO think part of the frustration, particularly when he was struggling, stemmed from him knowing he was very much playing for a contract, and understandably so.

And before someone says something dumb like, "WELL HE IS LAZY MAYBE HE WILL JUST MAIL IT IN" he certainly didn't the last time he got a fat payday. Make no mistake, that 5/70 he signed was fat at the time.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#625 » by mattg » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:27 pm

smauss wrote:I'm not nearly as concerned about his scoring. I'm much more concerned him thinking he's Curly Neal. He needs to cut hid TO's down, and make better bball decisions.

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The nonchalant comments have always stemmed from his ball handling. He doesn’t always dribble with a purpose, doesn’t always protect his dribble with his off hand or body, Dribbles too high/slow, tries to make an advanced move in tight space, etc. that’s when his silly turnovers happen, and mostly they could be prevented with better focus. Also, the trying to create off the bounce when a defender is applying heavy ball pressure and in his shorts is no bueno. He doesn’t have the burst or advanced handle to punish guys who do that to him so when he tries to he usually just loses the ball. It’s sort of a frustrating lack of self awareness thing because it’s been an issue since the first season he was here and we tried letting him run some PnRs and it really hasn’t notably improved at all.

The frustration overall with Khris comes from the boneheaded turnovers mostly and defensive laziness. Because they are such simple fundamental things that anyone who has even played the lowest levels of organized basketball can understand and can’t excuse. Its like if middle school aged kids can be bothered to sprint to a close out, or fight hard over a screen, why can’t a professional? Why does he just give up on a lot of plays? Same with the dribbling. When a dude is crowding Khris and he doesn’t use his offhand to guard against reaches and then his defender takes the ball from him it’s just a total “wtf are you doing dude?” Moment. Especially since those kinds of turnovers are literally the single worst play you can have happen in basketball that happens regularly.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#626 » by soxperry » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:28 pm

Khris just needs to get better at catch and shoot 3s. Im sure he can, i just think it will take time. He has been a pull up, rhythm shooter his whole career. Hes good at it but not good enough to warrant letting him iso a big chunk of the game like Kawhi or something.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#627 » by jute2003 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:43 pm

mattg wrote:
smauss wrote:I'm not nearly as concerned about his scoring. I'm much more concerned him thinking he's Curly Neal. He needs to cut hid TO's down, and make better bball decisions.

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The nonchalant comments have always stemmed from his ball handling. He doesn’t always dribble with a purpose, doesn’t always protect his dribble with his off hand or body, Dribbles too high/slow, tries to make an advanced move in tight space, etc. that’s when his silly turnovers happen, and mostly they could be prevented with better focus. Also, the trying to create off the bounce when a defender is applying heavy ball pressure and in his shorts is no bueno. He doesn’t have the burst or advanced handle to punish guys who do that to him so when he tries to he usually just loses the ball. It’s sort of a frustrating lack of self awareness thing because it’s been an issue since the first season he was here and we tried letting him run some PnRs and it really hasn’t notably improved at all.

The frustration overall with Khris comes from the boneheaded turnovers mostly and defensive laziness. Because they are such simple fundamental things that anyone who has even played the lowest levels of organized basketball can understand and can’t excuse. Its like if middle school aged kids can be bothered to sprint to a close out, or fight hard over a screen, why can’t a professional? Why does he just give up on a lot of plays? Same with the dribbling. When a dude is crowding Khris and he doesn’t use his offhand to guard against reaches and then his defender takes the ball from him it’s just a total “wtf are you doing dude?” Moment. Especially since those kinds of turnovers are literally the single worst play you can have happen in basketball that happens regularly.
He has been benched twice in the last two years by 2 different coaching staffs for not giving enough effort. This year it was in a contract year on a very good team. He is lazy.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#628 » by smauss » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:56 pm

When he gets the ball, and makes his move using a couple of dribbles is a thing of beauty. Its when he tries to do more than that is when he gets into trouble. Also that rebound the mike referred to earlier and I also in the a different thread, just absolutely makes me crazy and I can't get past that.

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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#629 » by M-C-G » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:31 am

Two things with Middleton, he is in fact lazy with above average frequency. What makes that concerning is he did that with 180M on the line.

He has very nice averages every year which are generally saved by an insane stretch of shooting. If he doesn’t have that stretch he will instantly be considered the worst contract in basketball not named Wall.

I do agree with those that think his game will improve with age. But I won’t be shocked when we are talking about how we desperately need to shed the contract in a couple years from now. I mean, I hope we won’t because if he has a good season, we are probably making it to the finals.


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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#630 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:27 pm

Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#631 » by Shaffty » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:56 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)

khris is better than everyone listed here
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#632 » by LuessiT » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:40 pm

Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)

khris is better than everyone listed here


Imo Harris, Klay (pre injury) and Horford last year were better.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#633 » by mcfromage » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:40 pm

Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)

khris is better than everyone listed here


I’d take Zion, Klay, D’Angelo, and Murray before Khris. Tatum, Trae and Porzingis are right there too.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#634 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:34 pm

Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:

khris is better than everyone listed here

That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#635 » by Dick Tate » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:37 pm

The team wagered that his value will remain significantly higher than Brogdon’s. Probably a safe bet.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#636 » by emunney » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:38 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:

khris is better than everyone listed here

That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.


Major injuries can be an inflection point for guys with questionable motors. We're going to find out if there was a reason the Knicks were so apparently ready to go along with his trade request. I'm not saying I'd bet against Porzingis (I absolutely wouldn't), but I think there are valid reasons for caution.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#637 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:57 pm

emunney wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
Shaffty wrote:khris is better than everyone listed here

That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.


Major injuries can be an inflection point for guys with questionable motors. We're going to find out if there was a reason the Knicks were so apparently ready to go along with his trade request. I'm not saying I'd bet against Porzingis (I absolutely wouldn't), but I think there are valid reasons for caution.

KP - Five Years, $158 Million
KM - Five Years, $178 Million

Fair but every player has concerns. Khash, IMO, has a questionable fitness work ethic and doesn't seem the same since his hamstring. He will be on the wrong side of 30 soon. Which contract do you take first in an expansion draft?
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#638 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:02 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
emunney wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.


Major injuries can be an inflection point for guys with questionable motors. We're going to find out if there was a reason the Knicks were so apparently ready to go along with his trade request. I'm not saying I'd bet against Porzingis (I absolutely wouldn't), but I think there are valid reasons for caution.

KP - Five Years, $158 Million
KM - Five Years, $178 Million

Fair but every player has concerns. Khash, IMO, has a questionable fitness work ethic and doesn't seem the same since his hamstring. He will be on the wrong side of 30 soon. Which contract do you take first in an expansion draft?


I get the age thing, but it's weird IMO to make an argument against KM, for KP, and use fitness and injury history as two of the big factors.
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Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#639 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:04 pm

And the GB board voted Russell Westbrook the 12th best player in the league.....so yeah. I'd like to say that I don't care, but I actually kinda hate that Khris is getting so underrated cuz I did at one point believe he was firmly overrated on this board (re: Middleton's defense under Kidd), but now people are going so overboard with the criticisms I find myself having to argue with stupid people who legitimately believe guys like Devin Booker, Jayson Tatum, D'Angelo Russell, CJ McCollum and Demar DeRozan are better players than him cuz, idk, box score stats or something.

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