Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

Post #1341 » by **humanrefutation** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 12:58 am

He's looked pretty great so far. Even better than I suspected he'd be. I still think he's going to struggle guarding guards with quality handles, though. Derrick Rose put him in the spin cycle a few times the other day.

Jez2983 · Post #1342 » by **Jez2983** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 3:01 am

The ongoing effect of this will be determined as to whether we upgrade the roster moving forward...

*Looks at Washington's record...*

ackypoo · Post #1343 » by **ackypoo** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 3:05 am

Jez2983 wrote:The ongoing effect of this will be determined as to whether we upgrade the roster moving forward...

*Looks at Washington's record...*

beal cant be traded this year.

Jez2983 · Post #1344 » by **Jez2983** » Sun Nov 3, 2019 3:15 am

ackypoo wrote:
Jez2983 wrote:The ongoing effect of this will be determined as to whether we upgrade the roster moving forward...

*Looks at Washington's record...*

beal cant be traded this year.

Hopefully they continue to suck all season and and the Pacers get it together then.

LUKE23 · Post #1345 » by **LUKE23** » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:52 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28021786/ten-nba-things-like-including-luka-doncic-trickery

7. Holy smokes, Malcolm Brogdon
Brogdon is a perfect complement to Victor Oladipo. I thought he might be overtaxed until Oladipo's return -- one reason I was pessimistic about the Pacers.

Whoops.

Brogdon is averaging 22 points and 10 dimes on 47% shooting, but what stands out is how comfortable and under control he looks from all three levels on offense -- even after a mini-slump from 3-point range. He calmly takes whatever the defense concedes. The form on his jumper is precise and unwavering.

He still gets a lot of what he wants, too -- namely bulldozing drives to the rim. Brogdon isn't explosive, but he has a sneaky first step. He's so strong, he doesn't need to blow by most opposing point guards. He buries his inside shoulder into the chest of his defender, turns that victim sideways, and ambles in for a layup. Sometimes, he just plows right through smaller guys:

Even amid blah spacing and a much more burdensome role than he enjoyed in Milwaukee, Brogdon is still getting 42% of his attempts within the restricted area -- massive for a guard. The Pacers cannot score when he rests, though injuries to basically every other member of their guard rotation have impacted that.

His versatility on defense -- he can guard every perimeter position -- has come in handy as the Pacers mix and match around him.

It's early, but Brogdon is on track to be a deserving first-time All-Star. Sabonis has a shot, too. They have kept Indiana afloat.

JimmyTheKid · Post #1346 » by **JimmyTheKid** » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:59 pm

LUKE23 wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28021786/ten-nba-things-like-including-luka-doncic-trickery

7. Holy smokes, Malcolm Brogdon
Brogdon is a perfect complement to Victor Oladipo. I thought he might be overtaxed until Oladipo's return -- one reason I was pessimistic about the Pacers.

Whoops.

Brogdon is averaging 22 points and 10 dimes on 47% shooting, but what stands out is how comfortable and under control he looks from all three levels on offense -- even after a mini-slump from 3-point range. He calmly takes whatever the defense concedes. The form on his jumper is precise and unwavering.

He still gets a lot of what he wants, too -- namely bulldozing drives to the rim. Brogdon isn't explosive, but he has a sneaky first step. He's so strong, he doesn't need to blow by most opposing point guards. He buries his inside shoulder into the chest of his defender, turns that victim sideways, and ambles in for a layup. Sometimes, he just plows right through smaller guys:

Even amid blah spacing and a much more burdensome role than he enjoyed in Milwaukee, Brogdon is still getting 42% of his attempts within the restricted area -- massive for a guard. The Pacers cannot score when he rests, though injuries to basically every other member of their guard rotation have impacted that.

His versatility on defense -- he can guard every perimeter position -- has come in handy as the Pacers mix and match around him.

It's early, but Brogdon is on track to be a deserving first-time All-Star. Sabonis has a shot, too. They have kept Indiana afloat.

*deep breath*

Brogdon should have been a first-time All-Star last year. 50/40/90 with good defense, a calm demeanor, clutch shooting, and the ability to stop an opponent's run with his ability to get an easy bucket at the rim.

Goddammit. I did't think his numbers would change dramatically, and its still early, but pffft.

Post #1347 » by **Ruzious** » Sat Nov 9, 2019 7:23 pm

I was probably his biggest fan, but folks need to relax. He's already starting to come down to earth, and his scoring efficiency is much worse than last season's. Yes, the Bucks should have kept him, but the Bucks are still an NBA Championship contender. We'll make it through without him... somehow. Hopefully he stays healthy this season.

Ron Swanson · Post #1348 » by **Ron Swanson** » Sat Nov 9, 2019 8:07 pm

People were wrong when they said he couldn't scale up his usage and that his slashing efficiency was only the result of Giannis and the team's spacing. But looks like people were also right when they said that his 3PT efficiency wouldn't maintain with more volume (32% on ~5 attempts per game) and that he's going to always be a defensive liability against quick PG's. Seems like a pretty mixed bag at this point until we see if he can both maintain these numbers and stay healthy over an 82-game season.

:dontknow:

PTA · Post #1349 » by **PTA** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:42 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:People were wrong when they said he couldn't scale up his usage and that his slashing efficiency was only the result of Giannis and the team's spacing. But looks like people were also right when they said that his 3PT efficiency wouldn't maintain with more volume (32% on ~5 attempts per game) and that he's going to always be a defensive liability against quick PG's. Seems like a pretty mixed bag at this point until we see if he can both maintain these numbers and stay healthy over an 82-game season.

I'm a Pacer fan and think the trade was good for both teams. The Bucks were more than favorably compensated for how Malcolm was playing for their team. The Bucks already had point guards and would likely have continued to use Malcolm the same way. I believe that Malcolm's high basketball IQ and his passing allow him be a better point guard or combo guard than a two guard. The Pacers have a traditional basketball coach but he allows players to find their strengths. Both Dipo and Sabonis are greatly improved over their play prior to being traded to the Pacers. Sometimes traded players have a chance to grow in new ways. Malcolm has improved in part because of new opportunities. The Pacers started with stagnant offense and poor defense due to insufficient preseason and mostly new players. Both have improved and Malcolm has less need to carry the team. He has been instrumental in organizing the offense and defense. He works well with regular two guards and small ball handlers that play as scorers or point guards. He is a great passer and has been invaluable to start the season. That trip to India was hard on both the Kings and Pacers. Malcolm helped us out of the jet lag and insufficient practice fog that enveloped us. You will be happy for the trade at the next draft. You still are a great team.

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kid idioteque · Post #1350 » by **kid idioteque** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:51 pm

It bears repeating: the Pacers have played the easiest schedule in the NBA so far. By a good margin.

DingleJerry · Post #1351 » by **DingleJerry** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:51 pm

PTA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:People were wrong when they said he couldn't scale up his usage and that his slashing efficiency was only the result of Giannis and the team's spacing. But looks like people were also right when they said that his 3PT efficiency wouldn't maintain with more volume (32% on ~5 attempts per game) and that he's going to always be a defensive liability against quick PG's. Seems like a pretty mixed bag at this point until we see if he can both maintain these numbers and stay healthy over an 82-game season.

I'm a Pacer fan and think the trade was good for both teams. The Bucks were more than favorably compensated for how Malcolm was playing for their team. The Bucks already had point guards and would likely have continued to use Malcolm the same way. I believe that Malcolm's high basketball IQ and his passing allow him be a better point guard or combo guard than a two guard. The Pacers have a traditional basketball coach but he allows players to find their strengths. Both Dipo and Sabonis are greatly improved over their play prior to being traded to the Pacers. Sometimes traded players have a chance to grow in new ways. Malcolm has improved in part because of new opportunities. The Pacers started with stagnant offense and poor defense due to insufficient preseason and mostly new players. Both have improved and Malcolm has less need to carry the team. He has been instrumental in organizing the offense and defense. He works well with regular two guards and small ball handlers that play as scorers or point guards. He is a great passer and has been invaluable to start the season. That trip to India was hard on both the Kings and Pacers. Malcolm helped us out of the jet lag and insufficient practice fog that enveloped us. You will be happy for the trade at the next draft. You still are a great team.

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I'd add that once Oladipo is back it should also help Brogdon's specific skillset and game. Oladipo can guard a lot of the quicker PGs that Brog struggles with and also I'm sure he'll take over a lot of the lead ball handling/creator/attacker stuff so that Brog doesn't get asked to do too much. Essentially you're putting two combo Gs togher, one with a strength in attacking, the other a great shooter. I think it's a good pairing.

I just don't get the need to rip on or disparage Brogdon here. He is a really good player every team should want on their side if the money and logistics made sense.

PTA · Post #1352 » by **PTA** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:54 pm

PTA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:People were wrong when they said he couldn't scale up his usage and that his slashing efficiency was only the result of Giannis and the team's spacing. But looks like people were also right when they said that his 3PT efficiency wouldn't maintain with more volume (32% on ~5 attempts per game) and that he's going to always be a defensive liability against quick PG's. Seems like a pretty mixed bag at this point until we see if he can both maintain these numbers and stay healthy over an 82-game season.

I'm a Pacer fan and think the trade was good for both teams. The Bucks were more than favorably compensated for how Malcolm was playing for their team. The Bucks already had point guards and would likely have continued to use Malcolm the same way. I believe that Malcolm's high basketball IQ and his passing allow him be a better point guard or combo guard than a two guard. The Pacers have a traditional basketball coach but he allows players to find their strengths. Both Dipo and Sabonis are greatly improved over their play prior to being traded to the Pacers. Sometimes traded players have a chance to grow in new ways. Malcolm has improved in part because of new opportunities. The Pacers started with stagnant offense and poor defense due to insufficient preseason and mostly new players. Both have improved and Malcolm has less need to carry the team. He has been instrumental in organizing the offense and defense. He works well with regular two guards and small ball handlers that play as scorers or point guards. He is a great passer and has been invaluable to start the season. That trip to India was hard on both the Kings and Pacers. Malcolm helped us out of the jet lag and insufficient practice fog that enveloped us. You will be happy for the trade at the next draft. You still are a great team.

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His 3 point shooting has fallen but he has much tougher coverage due to his scoring and assists. Lately he is getting more help from the bench so he can have some rest during the game. TJ McConnell has been great as backup point guard.

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PTA · Post #1353 » by **PTA** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:06 pm

kid idioteque wrote:It bears repeating: the Pacers have played the easiest schedule in the NBA so far. By a good margin.

True, but the Pacers would be 0-11 instead of 7-4 if they hadn't fixed their offense and defense. Malcolm was a big factor in the improvement. The first three games were ugly. They have been without 2 current starters for most of the this season. Olidipo is still out along with 4 other players. I am happy with their improvement in their latest games. Pacers are still ranked about 14 in the power rankings due to their losses and strength of schedule. I think they will improve.

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PTA · Post #1354 » by **PTA** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:15 pm

DingleJerry wrote:
PTA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:People were wrong when they said he couldn't scale up his usage and that his slashing efficiency was only the result of Giannis and the team's spacing. But looks like people were also right when they said that his 3PT efficiency wouldn't maintain with more volume (32% on ~5 attempts per game) and that he's going to always be a defensive liability against quick PG's. Seems like a pretty mixed bag at this point until we see if he can both maintain these numbers and stay healthy over an 82-game season.

I'm a Pacer fan and think the trade was good for both teams. The Bucks were more than favorably compensated for how Malcolm was playing for their team. The Bucks already had point guards and would likely have continued to use Malcolm the same way. I believe that Malcolm's high basketball IQ and his passing allow him be a better point guard or combo guard than a two guard. The Pacers have a traditional basketball coach but he allows players to find their strengths. Both Dipo and Sabonis are greatly improved over their play prior to being traded to the Pacers. Sometimes traded players have a chance to grow in new ways. Malcolm has improved in part because of new opportunities. The Pacers started with stagnant offense and poor defense due to insufficient preseason and mostly new players. Both have improved and Malcolm has less need to carry the team. He has been instrumental in organizing the offense and defense. He works well with regular two guards and small ball handlers that play as scorers or point guards. He is a great passer and has been invaluable to start the season. That trip to India was hard on both the Kings and Pacers. Malcolm helped us out of the jet lag and insufficient practice fog that enveloped us. You will be happy for the trade at the next draft. You still are a great team.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

I'd add that once Oladipo is back it should also help Brogdon's specific skillset and game. Oladipo can guard a lot of the quicker PGs that Brog struggles with and also I'm sure he'll take over a lot of the lead ball handling/creator/attacker stuff so that Brog doesn't get asked to do too much. Essentially you're putting two combo Gs togher, one with a strength in attacking, the other a great shooter. I think it's a good pairing.

I just don't get the need to rip on or disparage Brogdon here. He is a really good player every team should want on their side if the money and logistics made sense.

Yes Dipo and Brogdon will be a great backcourt. Brogdon is a talented passer and he is much better than I realized. Dipo has worked on his shot and I am guessing he won't recover all his quickness until next year. Brogdon is a much better point guard than I expected.

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HurricaneKid · Post #1355 » by **HurricaneKid** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:29 pm

PTA wrote:
kid idioteque wrote:It bears repeating: the Pacers have played the easiest schedule in the NBA so far. By a good margin.
True, but the Pacers would be 0-11 instead of 7-4 if they hadn't fixed their offense and defense. Malcolm was a big factor in the improvement. The first three games were ugly. They have been without 2 current starters for most of the this season. Olidipo is still out along with 4 other players. I am happy with their improvement in their latest games. Pacers are still ranked about 14 in the power rankings due to their losses and strength of schedule. I think they will improve.

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Let's look at Indy's schedule so far:

Det 3x (1-2)
Cle 2x (1-1)
Chi
Char
Ok City
NJ
Wash
Orl

Det hasn't even had RJax. Cle starts Sexton, still 20. Chi has a 19 yr old rookie starting at point. Charlotte has Rozier. NJ has Kyrie, a good offensive player but terrible defender. Was starts... Ish (I think)? And CP played 25 min. And is washed.

Not only have they possibly played zero games against playoff teams they have played the worst defensive 1s in the league.

Anyone thinking this is the way the season is going to go just isn't paying attention.

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SF_Warriors · Post #1356 » by **SF_Warriors** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:50 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:
kid idioteque wrote:Guys, he's putting up nice numbers without much of a supporting cast. Remember the numbers Michael-Carter Williams put up in his rookie year?

I mean he also put up good numbers next to an MVP..........

48% TS% and 43% efg is not considered a good numbers. MCW shooting at those percentages was a big red flag for his future prospects.

Brogdon is giving 58% TS and 51% efg, along with better raw numbers and on a winning team (thus far) so I am not sure how it is comparable

Baddy Chuck · Post #1357 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:52 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
kid idioteque wrote:Guys, he's putting up nice numbers without much of a supporting cast. Remember the numbers Michael-Carter Williams put up in his rookie year?

I mean he also put up good numbers next to an MVP..........

48% TS% and 43% efg is not considered a good numbers. MCW shooting at those percentages was a big red flag for his future prospects.

Brogdon is giving 58% TS and 51% efg, along with better raw numbers and on a winning team (thus far) so I am not sure how it is comparable

I'm not sure how you thought I was talking about MCW in that comment but proceed.

DingleJerry · Post #1358 » by **DingleJerry** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 pm

I don't think that someone playing vs bad teams proves the guy isn't good. Sure, indy's record is better than it would be otherwise but trying to use playing well vs bad opponents as a knock on a guy seems a stretch. Also, let's not forget Indy is missing their best player along with Lamb being out, Warren has missed time and I think Turner is out now too. Aaaand the guy they gave a big contract to hoping he could take a step up has done exactly that.

SF_Warriors · Post #1359 » by **SF_Warriors** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:14 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:
SF_Warriors wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:I mean he also put up good numbers next to an MVP..........

48% TS% and 43% efg is not considered a good numbers. MCW shooting at those percentages was a big red flag for his future prospects.

Brogdon is giving 58% TS and 51% efg, along with better raw numbers and on a winning team (thus far) so I am not sure how it is comparable

I'm not sure how you thought I was talking about MCW in that comment but proceed.

Sorry, was responding to the previous poster you also quoted.

LUKE23 · Post #1360 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:39 pm

22.6 points, 9.3 assists per 36 on .580 TS. I mean, I think you could easily debate him and Middleton even at the same salary. Such a poor move not keeping him. Only two scenarios where it isn't:

1. Bucks win title
2. Ind pick ends up comparable or better than Brogdon and Giannis stays